C0073/598, Transcript of Proceedings [2001] AIRCTrans 1222 (21 June 2001)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER RAFFAELLI

C NO 00735 OF 1998
C NO 00736 OF 1998
C NO 00738 OF 1998

APPLICATIONS FOR REVIEW PURSUANT TO
ITEM 51 SCHEDULE 5 TRANSITIONAL WROLA
ACT 1996 OF THE WOOLWORTHS (SA) CLERKS
(NON-STORE) AWARD 1994, WOOLWORTHS
SUPERMARKETS (WA) AWARD 1994 AND THE
WOOLWORTHS DISTRIBUTION CENTRE AWARD
1993 RE AWARD SIMPLIFICATION

SYDNEY

4.30 PM, WEDNESDAY, 30 MAY 2001

PN1

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, thank you, Ms Van Gorp and Mr Ryan, what's been happening. I remember that we haven't listed the West Australian award because they were awaiting developments in South Australia so that they would be used as a template, so we didn't include them, but the relations of the three essentially South Australian awards what are the developments. Mr Ryan, do you want to do first?

PN2

MR RYAN: No, I'll hand it over to Karen, Commissioner.

PN3

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN4

MS VAN GORP: Thank you. Commissioner, we have been working on these awards and we recently had a discussion with Mr Ryan regarding all three of them. We are focussing at the moment on the SANT award and many of the agreements we come to regarding the wording of clauses will flow on to the other two awards anyway. The major areas which we think we will be able to resolve are the area of the grievance procedure and inserting the training leave as grievance procedure leave, we may be able to come to an agreement on that we just have to work out some wording, we have agreement on the concept.

PN5

The other area that we may have some problems with as we indicated at the last report back are the wages provisions, in particular in the SANT award, however, Mr Ryan has agreed to at least have a telephone conference with me and I'll get some information over to him and I believe he'll need it to have access to that file that they dug out regarding this award and he'll have a look at that, hopefully we can come to an agreement with it. I think we agree in principle in certain areas it's just again how it's going to be worked out that we need to come to an agreement on.

PN6

The wages one may take us some time purely because of how busy we both are and the fact that John now has to go through all the documents and get to the same level of understanding that the company and myself are at, otherwise I think there were a few outstanding matters that I think we've since the last report back we've managed to resolve including how we're going to word the allowances provisions for uniforms and protective clothing, updating allowances for meal allowance, first aid attendant, cold work and travel allowance.

PN7

There were some clauses that we needed to tidy up and that includes the parental leave clause, we are adding in a super session clause that was missed out by the ASU, and otherwise it is really just tidying up the wording that we've agreed to adopt from various test case decisions. Commissioner, I believe that we should be able to have a document that includes everything that we have agreed to and I've talked to John about this and I think we should be able to have documents with everything we agree to within a month and that should be able to be on your desk.

PN8

If there's something that's outstanding hopefully we will have pinpointed the areas that we do not agree and we will be able to report back to you in a month's time.

PN9

THE COMMISSIONER: And what you say as far as what's not agreed, if at all, it'll come down to the wage rates.

PN10

MS VAN GORP: Wage rates and possibly an outside chance the grievance and trade union provisions, but both of us hope that we've agreed in concept so we should be able to agree to wording.

PN11

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, okay. Mr Ryan?

PN12

MR RYAN: I agree with Karen's comments and in relation to the wage rate issue the file that she had identified on the last occasion is that still held by the Commission or is that just back in registry?

PN13

THE COMMISSIONER: What file?

PN14

MR RYAN: There are files that Karen had searched which are the original files for the creation of this award and she had - - -

PN15

THE COMMISSIONER: I see, I remember those.

PN16

MR RYAN: Yes, are they with the Commission or are they just with registry. If they are with you, Commissioner, then can they be forwarded to Melbourne and if they are with registry I'll have to just contact registry and ask for them to be made available to me in Melbourne.

PN17

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, I remember that. I'll just have to ask my associate and we'll get back to you because you want to have a look at them?

PN18

MR RYAN: Yes, there's clearly a difference of opinion between myself and Karen over the structure of or how I believe the structure of wage rates and how she sees them and I think a lot of that is because I simply haven't sighted those original files and I think before I can pursue this matter any further I've got to be able to have a look at the same material that Karen had a look at because it might be that we're arguing over nothing. If the files are as she says they are then it appears that we don't have an argument with her. So I've really just got to get hold of that original file in relation to the making of the award so that I can cross-check all the information on it.

PN19

THE COMMISSIONER: I see, right. Have you had a look at that file, Ms Van Gorp?

PN20

MS VAN GORP: I did, Commissioner. I actually arranged for registry to forward it to your office and as I said in the report back last time I believe John needed to have a look at it and if we were going to argue it I believe that that file was going to be necessary to our arguments anyway. The other issue that we need to take into account also is the relationship between the Woolworths SANT award and the state South Australian Retail Award, they share a similarity and there is a relationship there.

PN21

THE COMMISSIONER: The file you talked about, did you yourself have a look at it?

PN22

MS VAN GORP: I did, yes.

PN23

THE COMMISSIONER: In Adelaide.

PN24

MS VAN GORP: In Adelaide, yes.

PN25

THE COMMISSIONER: Then you gave it back to the registry.

PN26

MS VAN GORP: And they forwarded it to your office.

PN27

THE COMMISSIONER: I'll just check and if we've got it we'll send it to our registry in Melbourne and Mr Ryan you can go and have a look at it in due course, okay.

PN28

MR RYAN: If you haven't got it and it has just been sent back to the registry if your associate could at least let me know then I'll contact registry directly.

PN29

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, I know that and what I'll say is this. We'll leave it on the basis that Ms Van Gorp, perhaps representing both sides, that by the end of June or 1 July that you inform the Commission as to, well, either you send us an up to date document of your agreement and if there's things outstanding then they will be clearly marked. I won't relist it but I do want it by probably about five weeks from today, okay, or four and a bit weeks from today. Is that okay?

PN30

MR RYAN: Yes.

PN31

MS VAN GORP: That's fine, thank you very much, Commissioner.

PN32

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, we will adjourn on that basis.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [4.45 pm]