C2001/2965, Transcript of Proceedings [2001] AIRCTrans 1660 (20 July 2001)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT DUNCAN

C2001/2965

APPLICATION FOR SETTLEMENT OF DISPUTE
(CERTIFIED AGREEMENT)

Application pursuant to section 170LW
of the Act of a dispute between the
Westpac Banking Corporation and Another
and the Finance Sector Union of Australia

SYDNEY

5.05 PM, THURSDAY, 5 JULY 2001

PN1

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Could I have appearances, please?

PN2

MR A. CUNNINGHAM: If the Commission please, I appear for the applicants, Westpac Banking Corporation and Challenge Limited.

PN3

MR M. CLIFFORD: If the Commission pleases, I appear on behalf of the Finance Sector Union of Australia, appearing with me today is MS A. MEARS, also of the Finance Sector Union.

PN4

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr Cunningham, do you need leave?

PN5

MR CUNNINGHAM: Yes, your Honour, I seek leave.

PN6

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Any objection?

PN7

MR CLIFFORD: No objection.

PN8

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Leave is granted. I think I should hear you now.

PN9

MR CUNNINGHAM: Thank you, your Honour. Our application in this matter has been filed and I assume it has reached you Honour's file and in addition, just to explain the documents that you've got there, you should also have a copy of the statement Lisa Ainsworth which was filed today. Despite efforts on our part to get that to the union before this afternoon's mention, apparently Mr Clifford hasn't yet received but it was sent by courier, so it will hopefully be there when he returns to his office.

PN10

Your Honour, the statement of Ms Ainsworth is our evidence in support of the application at this stage. We may, of course, wish to put on some additional evidence in reply to any evidence that the union puts on but subject to that rider, that's our evidence in support. Your Honour, we would therefore like to set a time table for the conduct of this matter today and seek directions to give effect to that time table.

PN11

I've had some very brief discussions with Mr Clifford just prior to your Honour coming on to the bench and subject to your Honour's views we would be happy to have those discussions about availability and so on and so forth off the record, if you wish but a matter for your Honour. I might rest there, I mean, I'm happy to tell you what I propose but - - -

PN12

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I agree with that, I'm sure Mr Clifford won't have any difficult with us going off record to discuss that but before we do go off record, I might just check with you what it is, is in the small - - -

PN13

MR CUNNINGHAM: That's the application, your Honour.

PN14

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It's in addition to what's on the file, the file has the application.

PN15

MR CUNNINGHAM: Yes, the application and then there are a number of supporting documents which are referred to in it which were designed to give some flavour of the application prior to the, well, in a shorter form and prior to the evidence being filed. As it turns out, the evidence has been filed fairly shortly after the application. The application, your Honour may recall a similar application made by my clients in connection with the out sourcing by them of IT staff late last year which your heard and determined.

PN16

The application is in substance, in the same terms seeking and in substance the same relief, in short, it's an application under our certified agreements.

PN17

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, it's based on the same provision of the certified agreement.

PN18

MR CUNNINGHAM: Yes, your Honour and then the larger folder is the statement of Lisa Ainsworth and the attachments to it.

PN19

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So, for more abundant caution the two documents that I just held which you've described as the application are duplicates?

PN20

MR CUNNINGHAM: Yes, your Honour, it seems you've got two copies; does your Honour have the statement?

PN21

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Of Lisa Ainsworth?

PN22

MR CUNNINGHAM: Yes.

PN23

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN24

MR CUNNINGHAM: So there are duplicates there and perhaps also, duplicates of the statement.

PN25

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: We'll go off record.

OFF THE RECORD

RESUMES [5.40pm]

PN26

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Having discussed the matter in conference I issue the following directions for further proceedings:

PN27

1) Summonses to give evidence or to produce documents will be for return no later than 19 July 2001. Should Westpac wish to file and serve an additional outline of submissions it shall also be done by that date.

PN28

2) The FSU is to file and serve not later than 2 August 2001 witness statements and an outline of its submissions in the matter.

PN29

3) Should Westpac wish to file and serve evidence in reply, then witness statements to that effect and an outline of the reply shall be filed not later than 16 August 2001.

PN30

The matter is set down for 29 to 31 August and 10 September is reserved for the further hearing of this matter if necessary. It is noted that the FSU seeks a recommendation similar to that issued in an earlier case involving Westpac and the FSU, that recommendation would require extension of the date of decision to the outcome of these proceedings. I make no recommendation to that effect at the present time. I direct that Westpac is to file and serve written submissions in support of its position on the recommendation not later than 10 July 2001 and the FSU is to file and serve its written reply to that matter not later than 12 July 2001.

PN31

Relevant to the question of any recommendation is the length of time that may be taken by this case. At this point I do nothing more than indicate that should it be necessary to issue recommendations, then a similar approach to the issuing of a decision will occur, as occurred in the earlier proceedings. My reference to Westpac include both parties to the application. I adjourn this matter accordingly, I adjourn the Commission indefinitely.

ADJOURNED TO WEDNESDAY, 29 AUGUST 2001 [5.43pm]