C2001/4150, Transcript of Proceedings [2001] AIRCTrans 2177 (31 August 2001)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

JUSTICE BOULTON

C2001/4150

AIRLINE OPERATIONS (DOMESTIC AIRLINES)
AWARD 2000

Application pursuant to section 113 of the
Act by Ansett Australia to vary re clause 7
and the inclusion of new sub-clauses

C2001/4151

AIRCRAFT INDUSTRY (DOMESTIC AIRLINES)
AGREEMENT 1985

Application pursuant to section 113(1) of the
Act by Ansett Australia to set aside the award
in its entirety

SYDNEY

4.22 PM, MONDAY, 13 AUGUST 2001

PN1

HIS HONOUR: I don't think there's any changes in the appearances. I have a letter - - -

PN2

MR C. RYAN: Your Honour, there is actually, I haven't appeared previously in these proceedings. I appear for the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association, the respondent to the award.

PN3

MR D SWEET: I might also add, I think the AWU appeared in person and this time I'll appear in part for the AWU. I seek leave to appear on behalf of the AWU. I am from the CEPU.

PN4

HIS HONOUR: I have a letter from the NUW indicating that they're not able to be represented this afternoon and indicating that they have no objection to either application. Now, are you going to begin, Mr Quigley?

PN5

MR QUIGLEY: Thank you, your Honour. Might I indicate to the Commission that since the last time we were before the Commission and indeed since the application to vary the Airline Operations (Domestic Airlines) Award 2000 was made, I've had further discussions with Mr Wallace from the AMWU and have in fact made some changes to that application to vary to pick up a few clauses that have been overlooked in the preparation of the draft application.

PN6

I do have some copies of that here today, your Honour. I did email a copy to your associate earlier today but it might be appropriate in the circumstances if I tender those.

PN7

HIS HONOUR: Yes. I'm not sure if the draft that I have is the final one or not.

PN8

MR QUIGLEY: Probably in that case it might be appropriate to show your Honour and indicate that this is the one that the parties at least are working on if you like.

PN9

HIS HONOUR: This is just one document?

PN10

MR QUIGLEY: Yes, your Honour.

PN11

HIS HONOUR: It's two copies of it. So it's exhibit Q1 in the proceedings.

EXHIBIT #Q1 AGREEMENT

PN12

MR QUIGLEY: The other point I'd like to make, your Honour, and Mr Ryan from ALAEA may wish to speak in respect to this matter. The application to set aside the 1985 agreement which we would argue is appropriate given the variations that are proposed to the 2000 award is something that we would be suggesting to the Commission it hold its hand on for a short time and that is because the ALAEA is a party to that 1985 agreement but it's not a party to the 2000 award which is the simplified award but both Ansett and the ALAEA have been in proceedings before Commissioner Wilks in relation to the simplification of what I'd call the Licensed Aircraft Engineers (Ansett) Award 1990, I think it is.

PN13

What we would ask is that the setting aside of the award in these proceedings not be dealt with immediately but to hold off until such time as the Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineers (Ansett) Award is simplified. There's really only one small element of that that's left to be done, your Honour, and if it wasn't for the fact of maybe higher priorities of more pressing necessity, that would have been achieved already. The parties are not really disagreeing with what has to be done. It's really a matter of just getting around to doing it.

PN14

HIS HONOUR: What's the title of that award again?

PN15

MR QUIGLEY: It's the Licensed Aircraft Engineers (Ansett Australia) Award 1990 or maybe 1995, your Honour. I'm afraid I didn't bring any of the paperwork relating to that matter with me.

PN16

HIS HONOUR: And that's presently before Commissioner Wilks?

PN17

MR QUIGLEY: Commissioner Wilks, yes.

PN18

HIS HONOUR: For simplification?

PN19

MR QUIGLEY: For the purposes of simplification. The parties have submitted a number of drafts and the outstanding matter really goes down to the classification structure and rates of pay.

PN20

HIS HONOUR: What you're saying is that you don't want the 1995 agreement set aside?

PN21

MR QUIGLEY: Not just yet, your Honour. It still ha some work to do in relation to the Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineers Award.

PN22

HIS HONOUR: So you don't want that set aside?

PN23

MR QUIGLEY: No.

PN24

HIS HONOUR: And you don't want the variation made to the Airline Operations Award?

PN25

MR QUIGLEY: No, that variation can go ahead, your Honour, except in one respect and that is that the parties have indicated that because there are some unions who have not been able to attend here today that maybe the Commission grants a grace period of seven days to allow any final comments to be made.

PN26

HIS HONOUR: Which unions?

PN27

MR QUIGLEY: Well, there's the Australian Workers Union.

PN28

HIS HONOUR: Well, Mr Sweet is appearing for them now.

PN29

MR QUIGLEY: Yes.

PN30

HIS HONOUR: The NUW, well, they've indicated their agreement.

PN31

MR QUIGLEY: Well, maybe I can let the unions speak for themselves in that respect, your Honour.

PN32

HIS HONOUR: What I've got now in exhibit Q1 is what you say should be inserted into the Airline Operations (Domestic Airlines) Award 2000?

PN33

MR QUIGLEY: That's correct, your Honour.

PN34

HIS HONOUR: And you say that should be inserted and operative date to be given to it. What would be the operative date?

PN35

MR QUIGLEY: Well, I think in the circumstances, bearing in mind what I've just said before your Honour, maybe seven days from now which would be 20 August.

PN36

HIS HONOUR: 20 August. The setting aside of the agreement, you say, I should make a decision as it were to set that aside but it shouldn't apply until after the Licensed Aircraft Engineers (Ansett) Award 1995 has been simplified?

PN37

MR QUIGLEY: That's right, your Honour, yes.

PN38

HIS HONOUR: Are you going to write to me and advise me about that or what?

PN39

MR QUIGLEY: Yes, we can do so if that's what the Commission would like.

PN40

HIS HONOUR: What you're putting in the Airline Operations (Domestic Airlines) Award is by agreement and it contains the substance of what comes out of the 1985 agreement?

PN41

MR QUIGLEY: Yes, that's right, your Honour.

PN42

HIS HONOUR: Is there anything else you wanted to put?

PN43

MR QUIGLEY: No, sir.

PN44

HIS HONOUR: Thank you. Now, what's the position of the unions?

PN45

MR WALLACE: Your Honour, we support Mr Quigley's submissions. As we indicated I think in conference the last time the matter was on for simplification that we'd support the incorporation of the 1985 agreement substance into the 2000 award. Unfortunately, the application was sent to us and the listing sent to us in a short time period before today and it happened to coincide with a minor dispute we were having in the car industry last week. So I've had a quick look through the application from Mr Quigley and as he indicated, yesterday I sent him some comments on how I thought the application should be varied and he's incorporated them but I'd feel a lot more secure if we could simply have seven days to finalise the order so that we can dot a few i's, cross some t's but that wouldn't stand in the way of the decision taking effect to vary the award.

PN46

From our unions perspective, we don't have a position on the setting aside of the 1995 agreement when it takes effect. That's more a matter for the ALAEA. Thank you, your Honour.

PN47

HIS HONOUR: But you're not opposed to, as it were, leaving the agreement there for an extra short period?

PN48

MR WALLACE: No.

PN49

HIS HONOUR: Yes, thank you. Mr Sweet?

PN50

MR SWEET: Thank you, your Honour. Our position is in many ways very similar. Unfortunately the listing came out with the draft variation and it hasn't been thoroughly checked, your Honour, and for that we apologise. We're certainly not in disagreement about the broad process. We are in agreement. I guess it's just the time lines and a week extra to settle the orders would certainly assist the CEPU. In relation to the AWU, I don't have instructions as to whether or not they consent to the variation. There was a game of phone hockey played today but unfortunately I was in the Commission for most of the day and I didn't get instructions from them in relation to the variation but I'm sure that can happen in a very short period of time, your Honour, either in written or oral form.

PN51

HIS HONOUR: Yes, thank you. Mr Ryan?

PN52

MR RYAN: Your Honour, I support the submission of Mr Quigley with regard to the suggestion that the setting aside of the 1985 agreement be deferred until the parties have had a chance to finalise the minor outstanding matters in the simplification of the Licensed Aircraft Engineers (Ansett) Award and I would seek that the Commission act in accordance with that suggestion of Mr Quigley.

PN53

HIS HONOUR: Yes and also I'd ask that the Association advise the Commission in writing when the award has been finalised by Commissioner Wilks, the Licensed Aircraft Engineers Award. Is there anything further? Well, the award will be, that is the Airline Operations (Domestic Airlines) Award 2000 will be varied as sought by the parties. The operative date for the variation will be 20 August of this year. The parties should advise if there are any changes to be made to the order by way of settling the order within the next seven days.

PN54

If there are any changes, the parties should discuss the changes and hopefully be able to present an agreed version to the Commission. In the event that there are no changes or there are agreed changes, then the order will be made. If there are disagreements, then it might be a longer process for settling the order. The 1985 agreement will be set aside. The date on which that will occur will be the day or shortly after the day on which Commissioner Wilks makes the new simplified award for the licensed aircraft engineers in Ansett.

PN55

That completes this matter. I thank the parties for their co-operation in getting the matter to this stage despite other more pressing issues that they might have had to have dealt with. Yes, thank you.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [4.36pm]

INDEX

LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs

EXHIBIT #Q1 AGREEMENT PN12