D2001/9, Transcript of Proceedings [2001] AIRCTrans 2331 (13 September 2001)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N 9074

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT WILLIAMS

D2001/9

APPLICATION UNDER SECTION 188(1)(b)
FILED BY VISITING MEDICAL OFFICERS
ASSOCIATION FOR REGISTRATION AS AN
ASSOCIATION OF EMPLOYEES

MELBOURNE

10.38 AM, THURSDAY, 23 AUGUST 20011

PN1

MR J. WILSON: I am legal practitioner and I seek leave to appear for the applicants.

PN2

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, thank you. Is there anyone - that is in Canberra you are, are you, Mr Wilson?

PN3

MR WILSON: That is correct, your Honour.

PN4

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is there anyone else in Canberra at this stage for any of the objectors?

PN5

MR E. JANSSEN: Yes, your Honour, I appear for the Australian Medical Association Limited and appearing with me is MS K. KELLY.

PN6

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Then in Adelaide who do we have?

PN7

MR M. GRIMES: I appear for the South Australian Salaried Medical Officers Association, and with me today is MS KEMMERY.

PN8

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you. And in Sydney.

PN9

MR P. SOMERVILLE: I appear on behalf of the Australian Salaried Medical Officers Federation.

PN10

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So anyone else in Sydney?

PN11

MR S. MEAD: I appear on behalf of the Australian Salaried Medical Officers Federation of New South Wales.

PN12

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Anyone else?

PN13

MR D. PERKINS: I appear on behalf of the CPSU, and with me is MS S. WILLIAMSON.

PN14

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And in Melbourne.

PN15

MS L. GALE: I appear for the Australian Education Union and the National Tertiary Education Industry Union.

PN16

MS M. CHAMBERS: I appear for the Health Services Union of Australia.

PN17

MR G. O'KEARNEY: I appear on behalf of the Australian Medical Association of Victoria Limited.

PN18

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, thank you. There does not appear to be any appearance for one objector, Mr Wilson, that is the Victorian Hospitals Industrial Association. It may well be due to what has been taking place in Victoria, that they are occupied elsewhere at the moment, in any event. Any objection to Mr Wilson have leave? If there is no objection, leave is granted, Mr Wilson. What is the position with the matter? Have there been any discussions?

PN19

MR WILSON: Your Honour, there have been, I think, I could describe them as cordial discussions with my friend Mr Janssen of the AMA, both last month and as recently as yesterday. However, certainly no concrete agreement has been reached. We have been discussing on a without prejudice basis some proposals and I understand that - and certainly Mr Janssen will correct me if I am wrong - but he is currently considering those.

PN20

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: There have been no discussions with any of the other objectors at this stage.

PN21

MR WILSON: There have not, your Honour.

PN22

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. What do you propose should happen then with this matter at this point in time? Are you seeking time for those discussions?

PN23

MR WILSON: I do seek time, your Honour. I certainly do propose to make contact with the other objectors. Mr Janssen, I understand, has or will be making contact with a number of the objectors who relate to what I might term the medical industry. My suggestion would be if you could stand it over for, say, three weeks to allow the applicants to liaise with the objectors to see if some agreement might be reached with them.

PN24

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Does anyone else wish to comment on that proposal, or generally in relation to this matter at this stage?

PN25

MR PERKINS: Your Honour, David Perkins from Sydney.

PN26

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, Mr Perkins.

PN27

MR PERKINS: It would seem to the CPSU that as there have been no discussions whatsoever to date, that the time of three weeks is far too short to effectively process the discussions that would need to take place. I would have thought that a more realistic and responsible position would be for this matter to be adjourned for a period of eight weeks and then for it to be reported back. I think that allows time for contact between the parties, both initial contact and at subsequent discussion that may lead to settlement.

PN28

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Ms Gale, do you wish to say something?

PN29

MS GALE: Yes, your Honour. The applicant referred to discussions with parties in the medical industry. There are objectors from outside the medical industry narrowly construed and we would seek some reassurance from Mr Wilson that he is intending to also contact us.

PN30

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is there anyone else have a comment before I hear from Mr Wilson again?

PN31

MR SOMERVILLE: Yes, your Honour, Somerville from ASMOF. I certainly that three weeks is too short. Mr Wilson has not made contact with us or any of the organisations associated with ASMOF ..... not made as yet, and I certainly think that the number of objectors and the range of interests that two months is a more realistic timeframe for progressing the matter.

PN32

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Anyone else. If not - - -

PN33

MR JANSSEN: Your Honour, Eric Janssen, from the AMA in Canberra. I concur, I think, with comments made that the timeframe probably does need to be a little bit longer. Three weeks, having ..... with these matters is probably fairly insufficient to generate any real progress so that it can be brought back to the Commission.

PN34

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, thanks. Yes, Mr Wilson, and do you want to say anything further?

PN35

MR WILSON: Taking those issues seriatim, your Honour. Perhaps three weeks is too short. However, I would have thought, with respect, that the Commission would want to be informed relatively regularly. Secondly, I think that certainly, as I assume everyone will, if everyone is acting in good faith, well, we should be able to make some progress in a relatively short time. If three weeks is too short, then why not four, so two - eight weeks seems to me to be a somewhat long time. To reassure Ms Gale that, yes, of course, we will include her in any discussions, broadly speaking, and that is my response.

PN36

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Well, what I propose to do is be rather selfish, I think, in taking advantage of my own experience in these matters and I think three and four weeks is probably insufficient time to complete discussions to a level where the parties can be in a position to tell me that directions might need to be made to go ahead with processing the application. What I propose to do is adjourn this matter till 10.30 on 11 October for the purposes of a report and the making of a - possibly of directions for the further processing of the matter.

PN37

The hearing on that occasion will again be conducted by way of video conference with contact to - sorry, from Melbourne with contact to Canberra, Adelaide and Sydney. I would direct the applicant association to have discussions in that period with each of the objectors and ensure as far as possible that on the next occasion it is in a position to advise me one way or the other as to whether this matter is to proceed to the hearing of objections or otherwise. Is there anything else for the record before I adjourn?

PN38

MR WILSON: Nothing from me, your Honour.

PN39

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: If not, then the matter is adjourned on that basis until 10.30 on 11 October.

ADJOURNED UNTIL THURSDAY, 11 OCTOBER 2001 [10.47am]