C2001/4358, Transcript of Proceedings [2001] AIRCTrans 2417 (21 September 2001)

AUSCRIPT PTY LTD
ABN 76 082 664 220

Level 4, 179 Queen St MELBOURNE Vic 3000
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N 0006

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER BLAIR

C2001/4358

HEALTH SERVICES UNION OF AUSTRALIA

and

ANGLICAN AGED CARE SERVICES GROUP

Notification pursuant to section 99 of the Act
of a dispute re grievance procedures

MELBOURNE

8.49 AM, FRIDAY, 31 AUGUST 2001

Continued from 21.08.01

PN138

THE COMMISSIONER: Good morning. No change in appearances?

PN139

MR D. HAYNES: There is, Commissioner. I now appear for the HSUA, in place of Mr O'Malley - Mr Houston, with MS M. LINDSAY.

PN140

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Haynes, thank you. All right. Who would like to lead off, thanks.

PN141

MR HAYNES: Commissioner, I can report that in discussions with the Anglican Aged Care Services immediately prior to these proceedings, agreement was reached with the employer on the terms of a settlement in relation to Mr McGowan. Those terms are confidential to the parties, but in the view of the HSUA require no further reconsideration by the Commission of the matters which were before you on the last occasion, save and except, Commissioner, on the last occasion there was discussion concerning night duty staffing levels for low care residential aged care facilities.

PN142

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN143

MR HAYNES: And I understand that both parties undertook to undertake some investigations of those staffing levels. And I think, for the record and perhaps for future proceedings, it may be useful to tender the HSUAs findings in relation to that survey.

PN144

THE COMMISSIONER: Right.

PN145

MR HAYNES: And I would hope that Mr Appleby is in a similar position in relation to the investigation undertaken by his employer. What this survey result shows, Commissioner, is that the union has been in contact with approximately 25 low care facilities and asked them about the number of staff that they have rostered overnight. And have also included on here, Commissioner, the number of high care residents, as well as the number of residents at each facility. And in case, Commissioner, you can see that each of the facilities has two - at least two car - personal care workers, rostered on at night.

PN146

Three in some instances. And in the case of Lake View Hostel there is one Registered Nurse and one personal care worker.

PN147

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN148

MR HAYNES: Now given that the matter is settled between the parties, Commissioner, I don't intend to take the matter any further. But I think it is - the results of the survey are nonetheless of interest, to ourselves and I suspect also to the Commission. If the Commission pleases.

PN149

THE COMMISSIONER: Thanks, Mr Haynes. Mr Appleby?

PN150

MR APPLEBY: Thanks, Commissioner. As from our last hearing I have sought advice from both SIAG and VAHEC in terms of staffing numbers and still hold that Anglican Aged Care believe that our staffing numbers for our hostel environments are still appropriate and safe. These sorts of figures are not available to either of these bodies but it is Ms Clare Dewan's statement that it is her belief that our staffing numbers are consistent with the industry and reasonable with out client mix. If you would like, Commissioner, figures that are put out quarterly by the aged care - the Department of Federal Aged Care Department, through the RCS Industry Liaison Group, which basically splits up residents in terms of their classification, high care or low care, and in what environment they actually reside in.

PN151

And the figures for this quarter that has come out hot off the press yesterday, if we look at Victoria, the mix of high care residents in low care facilities is 18.7 per cent. But a high care mix in our facility which I would say, Commissioner, the high care are people of behavioural high care, that is why they are high care. Not physical high care.

PN152

THE COMMISSIONER: Right.

PN153

MR APPLEBY: Is 13.7 per cent. So we are well under the State average in terms of that mix. Additionally, if we look at other States, such as Queensland, they have a high care ratio in their low care facilities of an average of 31 per cent. And a national average of high care residents in low care facilities of 22.6 per cent. So we are well under that average, compared to other States. And again, as I have stated, we believe that our staffing numbers are appropriate and safe. And we would welcome any investigation through WorkCover Authority or any other authority to provide guidance on the matter.

PN154

THE COMMISSIONER: But in - for the purposes of this particular matter, and I appreciate the numbers that you have given, for the purposes of this particular matter, according to Mr Haynes there is no need to take that issue any further. Is that correct?

PN155

MR APPLEBY: That is right. Thanks, Commissioner.

PN156

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. All right. The Commission thanks the parties for being able to settle the matter. Did you wish to say something else, Mr Haynes, or are you just moving away from the table?

PN157

MR HAYNES: I was going to - probably nothing rests on it at the moment, but we take issue with the ratios that Mr Appleby refers to. And would only - and to support that, Commissioner, we would take the Commission to the - I don't know whether you gave it an exhibit number? I will call it HSUA1 in anticipation.

PN158

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. Yes, well that is fair enough. We will call it that then. HSUA1.

EXHIBIT #HSUA1 STAFFING LEVELS FOR AGED CARE FACILITIES

PN159

MR HAYNES: If one was to look at Doutta Galla Aged Care Facilities at Queens Park, Woornak, Lynch's Bridge, Wantirna Aged Care Facility, Donald Street Aged Care Facility, Jacana Aged Care Facility, The Salvation Army Bethany Facility, Kardinia Aged Care Facility, Polish Retirement Home, and Baptist Community Care at Strathallan, in each of those instances, Commissioner, you are looking at situations where the number of - the ratio of high care facilities to the number of residents - actually, sorry.

PN160

Not in relation to Polish or Baptist but in relation to the others that I identified, the number of high care residents in those low care facilities is well below the 18.7 per cent figure that Mr Appleby refers to. And yet, despite that, the number of staff at night, the number of personal care workers at night in each of those facilities is at least two.

PN161

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN162

MR HAYNES: As the Commission pleases.

PN163

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you. All right. The Commission thanks the parties for being able to resolve this particular matter in this issue. The Commission will stand adjourned.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [8.56am]

INDEX

LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs

EXHIBIT #HSUA1 STAFFING LEVELS FOR AGED CARE FACILITIES PN159