C2001/4885, Transcript of Proceedings [2001] AIRCTrans 2612 (3 October 2001)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N 0253

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

DEPUTY PRESIDENT LEARY

No C2001/4885

TRANSPORT WORKERS UNION
OF AUSTRALIA

and

GATE GOURMET AUSTRALIA PROPRIETARY
LIMITED and ANOTHER

Notification pursuant to section 99 of the Act
of an industrial dispute re failure to consult
union of redundancies

MELBOURNE

2.40 PM, FRIDAY, 14 SEPTEMBER 2001

PN1

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Could I firstly apologise for the late start, there is a problem with airlines today. Could I take appearances, please.

PN2

MS V. KALAMISTRAKIS: I appear on behalf of the Transport Workers Union.

PN3

MS R. FRENZEL: I seek leave to intervene on behalf of the ALHMWU in this matter.

PN4

MR A. FARR: Your Honour, I am a legal practitioner and do seek leave to appear. I do appear on behalf of the administrator of Ansett Australia Limited.

PN5

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Any objection to Mr Farr's leave? No. Leave is grant. No objection to Ms Frenzel intervening? Leave is granted in both cases. All right, the dispute has been notified by the TWU. Ms Kalamistrakis, thank you.

PN6

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: Tank you, your Honour. This is an application for an industrial dispute pursuant to section 99 of the Act. The dispute concerns the failure of Gate Gourmet to consult the TWU over proposed redundancies and the protection of employee entitlements. The relevant facts behind this industrial dispute are the following: Gate Gourmet provided catering services to Ansett Group for domestic Australian routes. Ansett, as we know, ceased trading at 2 am this morning. Gate Gourmet indicated to the TWU yesterday at approximately 1 o'clock that it was also being placed into voluntary administration. Employees at Gate Gourmet were stood down without pay as from approximately 3 pm yesterday afternoon.

PN7

The TWU represents about 1200 employees at Gate Gourmet and they range within the kitchen areas to drivers of the trucks which take the food to the aeroplanes. As I said, Gate Gourmet was the company that provided catering services to the Ansett Group and the demise of the Ansett Group has meant that the associated companies such as Gate Gourmet are now facing a similarly bleak future.

PN8

It would be our submission that judicial notice should be taken as to the likely redundancies of the employees employed by Gate Gourmet and today we are seeking that the Commission find an industrial dispute between Gate Gourmet and the TWU concerning the likely non-payment of redundancies. We say that there is a likely non-payment of the proposed redundancies because we have been informed by the company that it is owed approximately $25 million. It is clear that Gate Gourmet is intending to terminate the employment of the employees. The employees have been stood down without work on the ground that an administrator has been appointed.

PN9

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is that an administrator for Gate Gourmet?

PN10

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: Correct.

PN11

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is it a separate administrator to the Ansett one?

PN12

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: Separate administrator altogether, yes. So as I said, your Honour, what we are seeking today is that the Commission find a dispute between Gate Gourmet and the Transport Workers Union and we would also be seeking that the Commission exercise its powers under section 119 and call a compulsory conference as soon as is practicable with the administrator that has been appointed to Gate Gourmet, with Gate Gourmet representatives, with Swiss Air representatives - Swiss Air is the company that actually owns Gate Gourmet. We would also ask for the Ansett administrator to be at the conference.

PN13

Particularly the purpose of the conference would be to provide us with information as to how much money is owed, the parties that are actually owed the money, how many employees will be affected, the entitlements due to our members, who their secured creditors would be, that type of information. I suppose I don't want to go into totally specifics.

PN14

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No. So it might be easier if you tell me what you do know.

PN15

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: Well, what we have been told is that Gate Gourmet doesn't have a brass raz, that Ansett owe them money, and of course we hear that Ansett are unable to pay Gate Gourmet.

PN16

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Have they terminated the employment or your people or - - -

PN17

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: Not yet, no.

PN18

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: They haven't.

PN19

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: No.

PN20

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right. And how many - your have got 1200 members?

PN21

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: Yes, I think there is probably 2000 around the country.

PN22

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is that all up?

PN23

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: Yes, that is correct.

PN24

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So there are 2000 employees. So are they, what, stood down or - - -

PN25

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: They have been stood down.

PN26

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: There is just no - obviously there is no work available.

PN27

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: That is correct, yes.

PN28

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, okay. They have not been told that they are going to be terminated?

PN29

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: They haven't been told anything yet, as far as I know anyway.

PN30

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So simply put, you know very little; is that true?

PN31

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: Exactly; that is exactly it.

PN32

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And you would like to know more, I take it?

PN33

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: Yes. And that is all at this stage.

PN34

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, thank you.

PN35

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: Thank you.

PN36

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Ms Frenzel.

PN37

MS FRENZEL: Thank you, your Honour. Your Honour, I might provide to the Commission three documents which we have filed with the Commission in Sydney and we have also provided a copy to his Honour Boulton J downstairs. Those three documents, I believe, are going to end up being heard by his Honour, but having said that, we also are seeking a finding of dispute not in front of the Commission as presently constituted, we are also seeking a finding of dispute with respect to a number of employers, including Gate Gourmet.

PN38

The employers who are listed on the document are, in fact, contractors similar to Gate Gourmet who provided services and in some cases still provide services to Ansett. Those companies are largely either catering, cleaning or security companies. The one - - -

PN39

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So this covers all of the contractors with whom you have members to Ansett, are they?

PN40

MS FRENZEL: That is right; to the best of my knowledge, that is right, Australia-wide. In any event, that has been filed with the Registry in Sydney, and then there is also an application for an employment termination with respect to these matters. It lists the same respondents and it is largely consistent with the application which has been made by the ASU with respect to Ansett and which is currently being heard downstairs, and then there is also a draft order.

PN41

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay. So is this being joined with the ones being heard by Boulton J or is this a separate - - -

PN42

MS FRENZEL: I think ultimately - well, at the moment it is separate. I think ultimately it will be joined.

PN43

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right, okay.

PN44

MS FRENZEL: Although, as I say, the character of the application is a little bit different because we are dealing with contractors who are contracted by Ansett and who have - - -

PN45

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, and he is dealing with the employees of Ansett, as I understand it.

PN46

MS FRENZEL: That is right, yes.

PN47

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN48

MS FRENZEL: But in any event, we would support the submissions made by the Transport Workers Union. The LHMU also has members employed by Gate Gourmet, not in the State of Victoria I might add, and certainly we would very much like to receive an invitation to the compulsory conference if the Commission is minded to conduct one, so that we also can find out exactly what is going to happen to our members and their entitlements.

PN49

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So your members, I take it, are in the same position as Ms Kalamistrakis.

PN50

MS FRENZEL: They are in an identical position.

PN51

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: They don't know anything.

PN52

MS FRENZEL: Well, all they are hearing is reports on the radio about Ansett and trying to translate that to their own futures.

PN53

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I think that is what most people seem to be doing, or standing in long queues.

PN54

MS FRENZEL: That is right also, or creating general mayhem and chaos around the airports. If the Commission pleases.

PN55

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, I have noticed some of that also. Mr Farr.

PN56

MR FARR: Your Honour, I don't have instructions in any way, only just to appear today before you. Clearly, the administrator, if the Commission was minded to call a compulsory conference, would comply with any direction of the Commission.

PN57

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. You are the administrator for Ansett.

PN58

MR FARR: Ansett Australia.

PN59

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Can you tell me who is the administrator or do you not know?

PN60

MR FARR: I understand it is Ferrier Hodgson.

PN61

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is it?

PN62

MR FARR: I don't know the specific person, your Honour. Price Waterhouse Coopers is the administrator for Ansett Australia. There are three gentlemen who have been appointed. The person that we are liaising with is Greg Hall.

PN63

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, that will be helpful. So you really don't know anything more than the unions as to what is happening?

PN64

MR FARR: I am afraid I am unable to assist the Commission.

PN65

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, all right, thank you for that. I am looking at some sort of consistency of approach. What I might do is talk to Boulton J and see what matters he is dealing with. It may be that they can all be joined or one of us look after the contractors and he look after the employees, but I think for some sort of efficiency, rather than us both going at separate ways, it might be sensible to talk to him which I will do. Certainly there will a conciliation conference called, subject to us getting on a plane, but there is always the wonders of video these days, although not quite as successful in my view.

PN66

Nevertheless, we will certainly make what arrangements we can. We are due back here next week for three days, so provided we can get on a plane, we will certainly possibly do it on Monday if possible. I will talk with him -I take it he is in Court at the moment - and between the two of us we will work out which matters are being dealt with by whom and advise the parties possibly late this afternoon as to where we go from here. Does that suit you? Did you want to add anything else?

PN67

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: Yes, just one thing, your Honour. I just want to foreshadow, I suppose, that if the conference doesn't give us any joy, and I doubt that it will, that will - - -

PN68

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, define joy first.

PN69

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: That could take me days - then we will be seeking orders under section 170FA and 170GA - - -

PN70

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Similar to the Liquor Union.

PN71

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: That is correct. Do you want a copy of what our orders might be; would that help?

PN72

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It wouldn't hurt, yes, if you have got copies, I will take those.

PN73

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: Yes.

PN74

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I think we have got contacts for all of the parties and certainly by close of business tonight you will know what time and where for the next event and you will possibly also know before whom. All right, so unless anyone wants to add anything else at this stage - - -

PN75

MR FARR: Your Honour, only perhaps the TWU might serve a copy of the draft dispute finding on the parties.

PN76

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, yes, if you would do that.

PN77

MS KALAMISTRAKIS: Yes.

PN78

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, on that basis, I will adjourn these proceedings. I will confer with Boulton J and we will work out who does what basically. On that basis the Commission adjourns, thank you.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [2.51pm]