C2002/780, Transcript of Proceedings [2002] AIRCTrans 1986 (3 June 2002)

AUSCRIPT PTY LTD
ABN 76 082 664 220

Level 4, 179 Queen St MELBOURNE Vic 3000
(GPO Box 1114 MELBOURNE Vic 3001)
DX 305 Melbourne Tel:[phone] Fax:[phone]

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N VT04085
AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT LACY

C2002/780

MAYNE LOGISTICS - ARMAGUARD

and

TRANSPORT WORKERS UNION OF
AUSTRALIA

Notification pursuant to section 99 of the
Act of a dispute re permanent part time
provisions and the payment of overtime and
tea money

MELBOURNE

2.36 PM, MONDAY, 20 MAY 2002

THIS HEARING WAS CONDUCTED BY VIDEO CONFERENCE IN MELBOURNE

PN1

MR B. IRONMONGER: I appear on behalf of Mayne Logistics - Armaguard. With me is MR J. PASTORE, MR D. BUTT and MR T. EGAN has got his - the glasses on over in Perth.

PN2

MR N. HODGSON: I appear on behalf of the Transport Workers Union and with me is MR R. BURTON, organiser with the TWU.

PN3

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, thank you, Mr Hodgson. What is this one all about?

PN4

MR IRONMONGER: Well, your Honour, you may recall when we were last before you on 25 January there were a couple of matters which were before you and we identified there was a problem with the enterprise agreement - - -

PN5

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN6

MR IRONMONGER: - - - and your Honour kindly got a number reserved for me which was 780 of 2002. The understanding then was that the parties will go away for further discussions to resolve this issue. Unfortunately the parties in my submission had not had an opportunity to meet for various reasons and we have asked that this matter be brought back on because we say that there are two issues in the enterprise agreement which need to be - for want of a better word - corrected. At large, sir, it is part-time provisions concerning overtime and meal money. Now, we say in clause 9.2 - - -

PN7

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Just a minute.

PN8

MR IRONMONGER: Sorry.

PN9

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, 9.2.

PN10

MR IRONMONGER: Yes. I gave the Commission an attachment. Has your Honour received those in the notification?

PN11

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I have got a copy of the agreement anyway.

PN12

MR IRONMONGER: Okay. Can I take you to 9.2 - - -

PN13

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN14

MR IRONMONGER: - - - and it is the next page, the first dot point, refers to additional hours at ordinary time until 38 hours exceeded in one week and not more than eight hours of the day. That is when a permanent part-time person gets paid overtime. The company has unfortunately been paying overtime after 7.6 hours and this has only been found out following the implementation of a new payroll system. So our intention, your Honour, is to correct that and now pay overtime after eight hours in accordance with the agreement by giving the appropriate notice. Likewise, in clause 22 and where it says:

PN15

Meal money. Where employees are required to continue working after 10 hours Monday to Friday inclusive, he/she shall be paid meal money.

PN16

Now again because of an award interpreter, the company has now found out it has been paying 10 hours - meal money after 10 hours on the job and hasn't discounted the 40 minutes for the unpaid meal break, so therefore we say that the employees were only entitled to being paid the meal allowance once they have been on the job 10 hours 40, and that accounts for 10 hours, actually working the 40 minutes for the unpaid meal break. At the moment an employee - an unpaid meal break has not been deducted off the working time.

PN17

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So you say that clause has to be read in conjunction with clause 23 and that the unpaid meal break does not count towards the 10 hours?

PN18

MR IRONMONGER: That is correct, your Honour. I think - in most awards it is actually time worked, not being at work, and basically they are the two issues before you today, your Honour. Admittedly, I have got it as three points and that should be two dot points. Points 1 and 2 should have been put together.

PN19

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So that is all there is?

PN20

MR IRONMONGER: From our point of view, your Honour, we are going to give four weeks' notice and implement the system.

PN21

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Have there been any discussions at all, Mr Ironmonger, about that?

PN22

MR IRONMONGER: I think there has been numerous discussions - numerous attempts to resolve this issue, your Honour, and they haven't borne any fruit.

PN23

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: At what level were the discussions conducted?

PN24

MR IRONMONGER: They would be at a state level, and with - Mr Pastore - - -

PN25

MR PASTORE: I haven't been involved.

PN26

MR IRONMONGER: No, I meant at state level.

PN27

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Who between?

PN28

MR IRONMONGER: Mr Egan. I understand - right, Mr Egan?

PN29

MR EGAN: That is correct.

PN30

MR IRONMONGER: And who with? With Mr Burton, is it?

PN31

MR BURTON: Yes, and Neville Hodgson and Gloria Tossick.

PN32

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right. Do you want to say anything more at this stage, Mr Ironmonger?

PN33

MR IRONMONGER: No, your Honour. I am happy to go into conference, if you so desire.

PN34

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr Hodgson, what do you say about all that?

PN35

MR HODGSON: We haven't got any submissions prepared, your Honour, because we weren't too sure what the substantive issues that were going to be raised today, but we do accept that we have had some discussions and we are happy to resolve these matters, but essentially the position of the union is that these issues - these work practices have been in place for, I am told a number of years. To my knowledge they weren't necessarily on the table as part of the enterprise bargaining negotiations and we say that it is not the intention for this side, anyway, to change those work practices in terms of the overtime payments when they kick-in and the meal allowances, and I think from memory, and again I apologise for not having prepared submissions, I think from memory we have a technical argument they can't necessarily use those parts of the agreement that Mr Ironmonger has referred to anyway.

PN36

Though I think the parties are in dispute and obviously, and I don't think we are necessarily in a position to reach agreement and it may be useful to adjourn to a conference, but just in terms of the discussions, the - I can confer that there was a meeting held some time ago with the company and the union and it was suggested by myself that perhaps these matters should be put in writing - the submissions put in writing so that we - and the arguments to put in writing as well so that we know exactly what we are talking about, because there seems to be a bit of confusion about the history of these matters and whether or not they were parts of the enterprise bargaining negotiations.

PN37

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Well, I will adjourn into conference but this agreement was the subject of a vote by the members of the TWU in Western Australia, is that right?

PN38

MR HODGSON: That is correct, yes.

PN39

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN40

MR IRONMONGER: Your Honour, if I may assist you, there are two branches in Western Australia - - -

PN41

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, I appreciate that.

PN42

MR IRONMONGER: Yes, one branch is paying with one interpretation and the other branch is paying with the other.

PN43

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN44

MR IRONMONGER: Yes, I am just trying to correct it, yes.

PN45

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I think that was raised with me.

PN46

MR HODGSON: That is not correct - both the same. Incorrect, your Honour.

PN47

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Sorry?

PN48

MR HODGSON: They are paying the same now, but they weren't. They were two different - one wasn't paying and they had to pay and the other one is.

PN49

MR J. BELLEGARDE: Terry, I am sorry. I have to disagree wholeheartedly. Sorry, Terry, but we have been through - I am sorry, I am Jim Bellegarde, I am the union shop steward for Canning Vale.

PN50

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN51

MR BELLEGARDE: We - last time we did have this subject was right after - my depot was being paid different than Stewart Street and I pulled the cards out and showed him the Terry and at the same time Graeme Mitchell, who was the assistant, and it proved conclusively that we were getting just the same and I have been at that branch for most - the best part of nine years now and we have always gotten paid that way.

PN52

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, look, I think it is probably best if we do adjourn in conference. Is there anything else you want to put on the record, Mr Hodgson?

PN53

MR HODGSON: No, thank you, your Honour.

PN54

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr Ironmonger?

PN55

MR IRONMONGER: Nothing more, your Honour.

PN56

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No. Is it necessary to keep the Court reporting service available, or will we be not requiring them further this afternoon?

PN57

MR IRONMONGER: I don't believe, unless your Honour wants to make some decision of transcript today, but that is your call, your Honour.

PN58

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr Hodgson, do you foresee the necessity to keep the Court reporting service available?

PN59

MR HODGSON: No, your Honour.

PN60

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, very well. I will adjourn into conference and the Court reporting service won't be required any further this afternoon.

NO FURTHER PROCEEDINGS RECORDED