C2002/699, Transcript of Proceedings [2002] AIRCTrans 2528 (8 July 2002)

AUSCRIPT PTY LTD
ABN 76 082 664 220

Suite 25, Trafalgar Centre 108 Collins St HOBART Tas 7000
Tel:[phone] Fax:[phone]

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

O/N 8556

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

DEPUTY PRESIDENT LEARY

C2002/699
C2002/1016
C2002/1046
C2002/1048
C2002/1017
C2002/1039

AUSTRALIAN LIQUOR, HOSPITALITY AND MISCELLANEOUS WORKERS UNION - NORTHERN TERRITORY BRANCH

and

GROOTE EYLANDT MINING COMPANY PTY LIMITED

TRANSPORT WORKERS UNION OF AUSTRALIA

and

GROOTE EYLANDT MINING COMPANY PTY LIMITED

AUTOMOTIVE, FOOD, METALS, ENGINEERING, PRINTING AND KINDRED INDUSTRIES UNION

and

GROOTE EYLANDT MINING COMPANY PTY LIMITED

COMMUNICATIONS, ELECTRICAL, ELECTRONIC, ENERGY, INFORMATION, POSTAL, PLUMBING AND ALLIED SERVICES UNION OF AUSTRALIA

and

GROOTE EYLANDT MINING COMPANY PTY LIMITED

Notifications pursuant to section 99 of the Act
of disputes re occupational health and safety
and conditions of employment matters

TRANSPORT WORKERS UNION OF AUSTRALIA

and

GROOTE EYLANDT MINING CO PTY LIMITED

Application under section 170LW of the Act
for settlement of dispute re concerning
health and safety

GROOTE EYLANDT MINING COMPANY PTY LIMITED

and

AUSTRALIAN LIQUOR, HOSPITALITY AND MISCELLANEOUS WORKERS UNION - NORTHERN TERRITORY BRANCH AND OTHERS

Application under section 127(2) of the Act
to stop or prevent industrial action

HOBART

10.05 AM, FRIDAY, 21 JUNE 2002

THESE PROCEEDINGS WERE CONDUCTED BY TELEPHONE HOOK-UP FROM HOBART

PN1

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you. Good morning. Could I for the purpose of the record take appearances and hopefully the reporter can identify the voices, but maybe if you do speak could you identify yourself beforehand. Who would like to start?

PN2

MR D. McDONALD: Yes, Deputy President, it is Didge McDonald in Darwin.

PN3

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, who is with you, Didge?

PN4

MR McDONALD: Can we just say we are having a little trouble picking you up at that end.

PN5

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Are you?

PN6

MR McDONALD: Yes.

PN7

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: We might just fiddle around with the technology here. Is that any better?

PN8

MR McDONALD: That is much better, thank you, yes.

PN9

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, I can hear you clearer too.

PN10

MR McDONALD: Okay, so in Darwin we have Didge McDonald from the OHMU.

PN11

MR J. ROBERTSON: I appear for the AMWU.

PN12

MR A. PATON: I appear for the CEPU.

PN13

MR R. WHITE: I appear for the TWU.

PN14

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: You made it.

PN15

MR R. WHITE: I did.

PN16

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, there are four of you in Darwin?

PN17

MR McDONALD: That is right.

PN18

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you.

PN19

MS L. DEAN: I appear for Gemco with MARK FULLER.

PN20

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Good morning. Okay and the delegates are with you or are they somewhere else on the island or are they in Darwin?

PN21

MS DEAN: They are in another office.

PN22

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, can they identify themselves for the purpose of the record.

PN23

MR T. SULLIVAN: I appear for the AMWU.

PN24

MR M. DRENNAN: I appear for the CEPU.

PN25

MR N. PRIEST: I appear for the CEPU.

PN26

MR D. MANN: I appear for the AMWU.

PN27

MR J. FERGUSON: I appear for the LHMU.

PN28

MR D. ELLIOTT: I appear for the CWU.

PN29

MR K. JOHNSON: Keith Johnson from the - - -

PN30

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, thank you for that. All right, there a few items on the report that I issues that were for report back today. Taking into account the difficulty of doing these things by telephone what I would ask that maybe if the company starts first to report and we then need - if these matters aren't resolved, we then need to decide how we deal with them. What I can tell you is that we will be in Darwin the week commencing 22 July if we need to do anything further. Okay, so if I could ask Ms Dean to start the ball rolling on the matters that needed to be reported back.

PN31

MS DEAN: Thanks, Deputy President, if we work off the reports that you have prepared.

PN32

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN33

MS DEAN: The first matter that required to report back was point 3 on page 3 which is contractor equipment licence permits not cited.

PN34

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN35

MS DEAN: In respect to that matter the parties have agreed on a format for those permits or passports I think they are going to be called.

PN36

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right.

PN37

MS DEAN: And they are currently being printed. So that process is well and truly under way, I understand there is no further issues with respect to that matter.

PN38

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, is that agreed with by the unions and the delegates? I don't want to go into great long discussions about something that has been agreed. If it is agreed between you, I am very pleased about that.

PN39

MR McDONALD: Deputy President, Didge McDonald, we understand that that is acceptable to the delegates and the unions.

PN40

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, that is excellent. Mr Sullivan, your name comes up top, is that your understanding?

PN41

MR SULLIVAN: Yes, Deputy President, that has been resolved.

PN42

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is well done, thank you for that. All right back to Ms Dean.

PN43

MS DEAN: Deputy President, the second matter required to report back is point 12 on page 5.

PN44

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN45

MS DEAN: Which is Operation of Unroadworthy Equipment. In respect to that matter we undertook to review the standing orders in the mining department within the eight week period and that has been done.

PN46

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So is that now not an issue?

PN47

MS DEAN: That is certainly our understanding.

PN48

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, perhaps if the unions could indicate?

PN49

MR FERGUSON: .....

PN50

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Sorry, who was that?

PN51

MR ELLIOTT: Dennis Elliott, from TWU, it was my understanding orders have not been complete as yet and only have gone through the stage of a draft proposal and just been put out to the members and the people in the mining area to have a look at it, then it has to back to the guys who work there to find out what changes are acceptable and what aren't.

PN52

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So the process is under way?

PN53

MR ELLIOTT: Yes.

PN54

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And it is subject to your members coming back is it and saying whether they accept what the company has proposed?

PN55

MR ELLIOTT: Yes, it is just a matter of the changes that have been made, whether the changes and if there is other changes to be made, and maybe by then it is put forward to the members.

PN56

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, is that your understanding, Ms Dean?

PN57

MS DEAN: Deputy President, I might need to confirm that. My concern is that Mr Elliott actually took the - undertook the substantial proportion of the review, maybe Mr Elliott is concerned but the process is certainly well and truly under way and there is no need to take up any more of your time with respect to that issue.

PN58

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, I think that is as I understand him the process is under way, the - if it is, I presume it is in a document form is before the members and it is now waiting for them to come back as to their agreement or otherwise. Is that correct, Mr Elliott?

PN59

MR ELLIOTT: Well, I was placed on to help assist a part way through that but then I was taken off of it. I am not too sure the reason why.

PN60

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, can you just answer the question? Is that the case that the position now is waiting for the members to come back?

PN61

MR ELLIOTT: Well, the process is still ongoing, waiting for it to be ratified.

PN62

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, okay. All right. If need be we can come back to that one at a later time, but it seems that the process is under way and we are waiting for a report back from the employees. Okay, next one?

PN63

MS DEAN: The next one, Deputy President, is point 15 on page 5, Tohmatsu Incident at PCS.

PN64

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN65

MS DEAN: Mark Fuller has spoken with the employees concerned so that matter should now be resolved.

PN66

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, is that agreed with the unions or the delegates or both preferably?

PN67

MR JOHNSON: Deputy Commissioner, it is Keith Johnson here from ..... we have a bit of a concern about that actually they did speak to the member at 7 o'clock last night and we are just disappointed it has taken four months after the incident, or incidents for the person to get an apology. It just seems strange the day before we are talking to you they have actually come up and spoken to this guy and the two people involved. Yes, it has been resolved, but they were very disappointed about that from our understanding.

PN68

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, you are saying it could have been done a little quicker, perhaps?

PN69

MR JOHNSON: Yes, a lot quicker.

PN70

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. That may well be the case but it is now resolved and that is a good thing. Everyone agrees with that I take it?

PN71

MS DEAN: Yes, Deputy President.

PN72

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, next one.

PN73

MS DEAN: Point 17 on page 5 that is the issues related to concentrator.

PN74

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN75

MS DEAN: The position has in that regard, Deputy President, has changed slightly since your visit and that is as a result of a restructure that has occurred. So the issue arose, the two departments being the concentrator area and the mobile workshop reported to different managers, it is now one department.

PN76

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right.

PN77

MS DEAN: That in itself should remove any issues with respect to the hand over, but on top of that I understand there were - there was a process implemented during the April shutdown and that works, you know, certainly to a satisfactory standard. So our view is that that matter is now resolved.

PN78

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. So the restructure has assisted in resolving what was the issue?

PN79

MS DEAN: Yes.

PN80

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Unions and delegates agree with that?

PN81

MR FERGUSON: If I may, Deputy President, it is Joe Ferguson from LHMU.

PN82

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hi, Joe.

PN83

MR FERGUSON: I myself still haven't seen any sort of format or official hand over that was spoken with you when you were up here on your visit, we are still unaware of how they are going to go about it and as far as we are - well, our knowledge of it is there is nothing been put in place yet.

PN84

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, but is there a change in the practice now that it is all one department rather than two, does that eliminate the problem to some degree?

PN85

MR FERGUSON: If I may, Deputy President, the structural change still - there has been no change in the actual format of how we actually get a hand over.

PN86

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hasn't there? All right, well, perhaps if the company through Ms Dean could make whatever information is available to Mr Ferguson.

PN87

MR FERGUSON: We would certainly like to get together with the company and roll out some sort of official format for getting that resolved.

PN88

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. That is possible is it not, Ms Dean.

PN89

MS DEAN: Deputy President, there have been discussions about that. I might just ask Mark Fuller to explain what is happening.

PN90

MR FULLER: Deputy President, there is a - currently there is a shutdown of the concentrator occurring now with quite a bit of maintenance work being undertaken. The shutdown is scheduled to finish early next week and the plant recommence production. What normally happens is that it is handed over for the night shift which is say 6.30 at night - - -

PN91

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN92

MR FULLER: - - - and then the plant begins to sort of ramp up to sort of peak production over the next sort of 12 hours. What is intended to happen at the start of this particular shutdown is that the plant will be handed over at midday while there are still maintenance people around, mechanical and electrical and that there will be a more formal walk around and hand over of various sections of the plant and items that were worked on.

PN93

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right. Is that in some documented format that can be given to Mr Ferguson so that he has got - - -

PN94

MR FULLER: Intention is - it is not documented at the moment, Deputy President, what we are doing we are going to give this a go and see if it works out and I am sure that we will be able to further improve upon it once we give it a trial run.

PN95

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Sure. Could I ask you then perhaps to have some discussion with Mr Ferguson so he is au fait with what it is that you are proposing.

PN96

MR FULLER: Sure.

PN97

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, does that satisfy you, Mr Ferguson, there be some discussion with Mr Fuller as to what is being proposed.

PN98

MR FERGUSON: Yes, as I have said earlier, Deputy President, we are more than happy to go through a format because we thought it was going to be after your last visit up here was going to be a written formal hand over so we were assured that there was no outstanding ..... issues.

PN99

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, I understand what you say and I think that was my understanding also but I think there has been some changes there which you need to be aware of and if the company, or I think the company - well, the company is prepared to sit down and walk through this with you so that you are fully aware of what is happening and I think that should address any concerns you may have at this time. Okay?

PN100

MR McDONALD: Deputy President, Didge McDonald in Darwin.

PN101

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, Didge?

PN102

MR McDONALD: Can I suggest that some work be put in before the actual hand over process starts so that they have a document to work on, one that they can review and not - I mean this process should have been firmly established in the first place and I think it would be appropriate to sit down with the unions now, put together however brief a process, a documented process that they can then go through and then review.

PN103

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Along the lines that Mr Fuller has outlined?

PN104

MR McDONALD: Yes.

PN105

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is that possible, Mr Fuller, to put that in some sort of written format so that everybody understands it. It may be that you need to walk through it the first time and then document it?

PN106

MR FULLER: I - look, I certainly believe it is possible, Deputy President, in fact I am sure that there is some sort of check out list that is being developed by the maintenance people and sort of, if you like, a list of sort of tick off boxes as various sections are handed over.

PN107

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN108

MR FULLER: It is certainly intended to develop into a formal process.

PN109

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right, and you can do that together.

PN110

MR FULLER: Yes.

PN111

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. That seems to address the concerns and that should be done - I think you said that the hand over, the first one will be next week or so?

PN112

MR FULLER: That is correct.

PN113

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. So it should all be done in a pretty short space of time on that basis. Okay, are you happy with that Mr Ferguson, Mr McDonald?

PN114

MR FERGUSON: Yes, thank you, Deputy President.

PN115

MR McDONALD: Didge, Deputy President, thank you.

PN116

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay. The next one.

PN117

MS DEAN: The next one Deputy President is point 18, No Action on Safety Modification to Tohmatsu Water Cart. One of the water carts - the latest I understand all the trucks have been completed and in respect to the remote control harnesses, one has been completed and a second one is scheduled to be completed next Tuesday.

PN118

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay. So is that now resolved as far as the company is aware?

PN119

MR FULLER: Well, it will be resolved once the second Tohmatsu truck has been retro-fitted with these harness couplings.

PN120

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is next week is it? Is that next week?

PN121

MS DEAN: Yes.

PN122

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, is everybody of the view that once that is done, that particular issue is now resolved.

PN123

MR ..... : Yes, Deputy President.

PN124

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Good thank you. The next one.

PN125

MS DEAN: The next one, Deputy President, is point 4 on page 6, Housing Policy in Place Without Agreement.

PN126

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN127

MS DEAN: There were further discussions in relation to that issue since your visit. There has been some agreed changes to the complaints procedures, ie how a person can progress a complaint with respect to the housing.

PN128

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right.

PN129

MS DEAN: That matter has now all been agreed and the housing policy has been finalised. It is still to be communicated more widely amongst the work force but certainly with respect to the unions on site it has been agreed.

PN130

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, that is good. Unions agree with that, or the delegates I guess on site, they were the ones that were directly involved?

PN131

MR McDONALD: Yes, Deputy President we agree with that process.

PN132

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Good, excellent, the next one.

PN133

MS DEAN: The next one is point 6 on page 7, Contracting out of the Work.

PN134

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN135

MS DEAN: There has been some work done in respect to that matter and a draft policy is now being completed but there has been no discussions with the unions in respect to that draft policy yet. We anticipate that will happen in the very near future.

PN136

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, so that is a work in progress if we could put it that way?

PN137

MS DEAN: Yes.

PN138

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay. Do the unions on site agree that that issue is one that is continuing?

PN139

MR McDONALD: Deputy President, we agree that that is continuing but we have had no input to this at all.

PN140

MS DEAN: No, that is why I am saying draft policy and it hasn't yet been discussed with the unions and that will occur very shortly.

PN141

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, so as I understand it - - -

PN142

MS DEAN: So that they can have some input.

PN143

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right, so as I understand it there is a draft policy being drawn up by the company which is to be given to the delegates on site and the unions for discussion to reach agreement on a final position. Is that putting it correctly, Ms Dean?

PN144

MS DEAN: Yes, it will be provided to the unions for the purposes of consultation and feedback, and we will progress the matter from there.

PN145

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right does that sound acceptable to the unions, it is an ongoing process for discussion.

PN146

MR McDONALD: Deputy President, I might ask if we could have a time frame for that process from Gemco?

PN147

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: How far down the track is the company in putting its document together?

PN148

MS DEAN: Around a week, Deputy President.

PN149

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, so by the time we are in Darwin in the week commencing 22 July you will have some position. Or by that time it should have been put before the unions and there should be some discussions and hopefully an agreement.

PN150

MS DEAN: Yes.

PN151

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, I am happy to make some tentative arrangements to list it for some sort of report then, to push it along if it isn't resolved. That address the concern?

PN152

MR McDONALD: Yes, Deputy President.

PN153

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay. All right, the next one?

PN154

MS DEAN: Deputy President, the next matter is paragraph 8 on page 8 ..... Services Eroded.

PN155

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN156

MS DEAN: That is probably a more difficult one to report back on. I understand that the combined union council on staff has written to the minister. What we want to do is focus on this being a community rather than a Gemco issue and have the community involvement in lobbying government rather than it solely being from Gemco.

PN157

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN158

MS DEAN: So there are discussions continuing in respect to how that can best be achieved.

PN159

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: But Gemco is part of the group that is going to be lobbying? Is that what you are saying?

PN160

MS DEAN: Well - - -

PN161

MR FULLER: Deputy President, Gemco is a bit of a rock and a hard place on this one.

PN162

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is it, right.

PN163

MR FULLER: We believe that the most positive way to get some results in this area is that if the community of ..... approaches the Mr R. Kitt, our local member over this and get him lobbying the government.

PN164

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right.

PN165

MR FULLER: He stood up here in a community meeting and from his own words said that Groote Eylandt was entitled to the same standard of community services that the rest of the Northern Territory.

PN166

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN167

MR FULLER: I think it is high time that the community held him to those words.

PN168

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Remembering of course that he is a politician.

PN169

MR FULLER: That is right, but it might be a personal opinion, Deputy President, but I believe that the community has more sway than a private company in these sorts of issues.

PN170

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And I guess what you are saying is that it is a community issue and at the end of the day it is the community that will get any benefit if there is a benefit that comes out of it.

PN171

MS DEAN: Yes.

PN172

MR FULLER: That is correct.

PN173

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, what is the - maybe the unions can inform me as to what has happened. As I understand they have made a combined - or there has been an approach to the minister. Or is this the approach that we talked about when we were over there?

PN174

MR SULLIVAN: Deputy President, it is Tony Sullivan talking.

PN175

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, Tony.

PN176

MR SULLIVAN: I approached two government ministers on behalf of the combined union council and we just got bugger all back actually, they sort of hand balled it around the political circle and there has been no response as yet. However, I might add we are disappointed in Gemco's attitude towards this. They have shown little interest in trying to support us by lobbying government themselves. Our view is that they belong to the community also and what is wrong with them going in to bat for their employees.

PN177

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, I guess what was said that they are caught between a rock and a hard place may well be true.

PN178

MR SULLIVAN: We - - -

PN179

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I understand their reticence to be up front and carrying the flag, but I guess that they are there supporting in some way. Is it your view Tony that politicians are doing what politicians always do and they are just - - -

PN180

MR SULLIVAN: Absolutely, they are pretty good at it.

PN181

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Absolutely.

PN182

MR SULLIVAN: The problem we have is we have discussed this over the last month or so and my understanding from the general manager was that there would be a joint approach from the combined union council and Gemco to put a little bit of weight on the government to do something and that doesn't seem to be forthcoming.

PN183

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, it may be that it needs a community approach with Gemco, the employees and all of the community. Look, that is something that I might talk to Gemco about privately and see whether there is some way that they can be doing something but maybe not be too publicly be seen to be doing things for all sorts of political reasons I would imagine. Who is - R. Kitt, Mr R. Kitt the minister or - - -

PN184

MS DEAN: Yes.

PN185

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: He is the minister for what?

PN186

MS DEAN: Regional development and - - -

PN187

MR SULLIVAN: Local government.

PN188

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is he.

PN189

MR SULLIVAN: And sport and recreation and - - -

PN190

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: He is a reincarnated Russ Hinze, is he?

PN191

MR McDONALD: He is about the same size as Russ.

PN192

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is that so.

PN193

MR SULLIVAN: But he is a different fellow, an ..... man.

PN194

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay.

PN195

MR McDONALD: Deputy President, Didge McDonald, can I just put my two bob's worth in on here?

PN196

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, please do.

PN197

MR McDONALD: I - on behalf of the union I contacted Kitt's office yesterday morning and they had accepted - had received a letter from the delegates from Groote Eylandt, I think last week. They were forwarded to the health minister's office for an explanation of the status of particularly the, I think a dentist and a radiographer service.

PN198

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN199

MR McDONALD: Okay. Now, there is also another dimension to this which we spoke about on Groote Eylandt which relates to the contract that the company had with the Employee Assistance Service.

PN200

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is right.

PN201

MR McDONALD: Which they dropped and substituted with a - some form of consultation with the local minister's wife. Now, it was reported to us yesterday that that person has been providing a good service but it in no way replaces what was available through the EAS contract and it would be our position that the company, given the location and the lack of services on Groote Eylandt that the company really needs to reinstate that contract to provide the range of services that were formerly available.

PN202

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I am not familiar with what is involved in that.

PN203

MR McDONALD: No. We will put a formal request to the company to that effect.

PN204

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right then and then the company can consider it's position, but it is an issue that is obviously of concern and does affect the whole community and needs to have some resolution. The difficulty of course is that politicians are full of promises but after that no much action from my experience, but maybe if Didge puts the proposal, formal proposal to the company they can consider it and we might put that on a list for report back in July as well to see what has happened with it. In the meantime maybe a politician will do something that surprises us all.

PN205

MR McDONALD: Might get the opposition to do something.

PN206

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. I wish you luck. I am very cynical about politicians, I am sorry, it possibly comes through.

PN207

MR McDONALD: Surely not. There are surprises.

PN208

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, they are one of those things you have to live with. All right anything else that we need to report back on. That looks like it does it?

PN209

MS DEAN: Deputy President, I might just note very briefly point 9 on page 8 which is the Replacement medical.

PN210

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN211

MS DEAN: We are still finalising our policy with respect to that. That will be provided in draft form to the unions once it is completed for consultation and feedback. We can progress that from there.

PN212

MR ROBERTSON: Do we have a time for this. Sorry, Jamie Robertson from Darwin, do we have a time-line for this?

PN213

MS DEAN: Soon, Jamie.

PN214

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, perhaps I will list that for - there will be three matters for report back the week commencing 22 July just so that it is - I have got some monitoring on it and know what is happening with it. No objection to that?

PN215

MS DEAN: No, Deputy President.

PN216

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, so are there any other issues that need to be raised or outstanding?

PN217

MR FERGUSON: If I may, Deputy President, Joe Ferguson from ASFU.

PN218

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, Joe?

PN219

MR FERGUSON: During the discussions when you were over here it was raised, it wasn't on the actual list but we did actually speak on it and it didn't -I don't think may have got back on your report back, but on ..... briefing of the concentrated smoko room and control room and associated hospice, can you recall that conversation - - -

PN220

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, I can.

PN221

MR FERGUSON: They tell me the ..... hasn't been picked up so we need to touch on that briefly.

PN222

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, so what has happened with that? Ms Dean do you know? Was there concern about the smoko room in the concentrator and if you recall we went around there and did an inspection.

PN223

MS DEAN: I am looking at the list now, it is - - -

PN224

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It is number 10 on page 9.

PN225

MS DEAN: Yes.

PN226

MR FULLER: Deputy President, it is Mark Fuller.

PN227

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, Mark?

PN228

MR FULLER: This has been an issue for some period of time now and I am quite candid in saying for too long. It is in next year's budget, capital allocation for the soundproofing to occur. We are not far away from next year's budget we are half way through the last month of this financial year so we are firming up with the options to what we can do there for both the crib room, operator's control room and associated office.

PN229

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So the company, I know, is aware of the problem and you are saying that you are dealing with it in some way?

PN230

MR FULLER: Yes.

PN231

MS DEAN: Yes.

PN232

MR FULLER: We were - had external consultants come in, they were extremely slow with their reporting back despite fairly persistent chasing up. I guess they came to site, they did an assessment, we finally got the recommendations from them and the next part of the process will be to tender the work out to be done.

PN233

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Have you advised the unions of what they have come back with or what you are doing so that they know that the matter is at least in hand?

PN234

MR FULLER: I am not sure what Jim Crossly, the new GM in the company with the delegates to be answering that now. Jim is off Eylandt today heading for South Africa so I am not sure you might have to ask those guys if he did?

PN235

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. All right. Joe are you aware of the consultant's report and what the company is doing?

PN236

MR FERGUSON: Deputy, President, I am aware of the fact that I think ..... is the company that was doing - looking at trying to engineer out the noise. I don't know whether that is in regard to actually sound proofing the areas that we are asking for, but there has been and I think he has got a record over it Thursday, that there are a hearing deficiencies that have happened over a period of time. We have been waiting for this, or it has been a major issue for the last couple of years. We need to get something done. I think myself and my co-workers need to talk to Mark about it so I can report back to the people that they may get this issue resolved.

PN237

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN238

MR FERGUSON: There has been no sign - and as I say it was raised and I think there was industrial action back in '99 or 2000 in regards to it.

PN239

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It was certainly raised as an issue of concern and recognised as such.

PN240

MR FERGUSON: ..... it is to the company's benefit too because if people are going to have hearing deficiencies there are ramifications that may happen further down the track because of that.

PN241

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Sure.

PN242

MR FERGUSON: Like if in the previous meeting we were brought up to speed on what is actually happening with this and where we are actually at with it so we could assist with it.

PN243

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. What I would ask either Ms Dean or Mr Fuller to do is to see whether they can put something together so that you can go back to the employees and they have got some idea of what progress is being made. It is an important matter, it could well be a health and safety issue that needs to be addressed. So provided the information is made available to the employees and they know that something is being done that will assist certainly in getting it resolved. Could one of you undertake to do that?

PN244

MS DEAN: Yes, Deputy President, we can certainly arrange to have some discussion with Mr Ferguson and let him know exactly where the matter is up to.

PN245

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. No, I think that would be helpful.

PN246

MS DEAN: Okay, great.

PN247

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, and is there anything else?

PN248

MR ROBERTSON: It is Jamie Robertson of Darwin, Deputy President.

PN249

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, Jamie?

PN250

MR ROBERTSON: I have just a couple of matters I would like to mention. On page 8 the matters of ..... and the refusal of Gemco which are 10 and 11?

PN251

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN252

MR ROBERTSON: That matter has now been resolved by Commissioner Hodder.

PN253

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Good.

PN254

MR ROBERTSON: In our favour.

PN255

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, that is even better isn't it?

PN256

MS DEAN: I think that is disputed but anyway.

PN257

MR ROBERTSON: Though nobody has appealed.

PN258

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is an indication, is it, of who wins.

PN259

MS DEAN: .....

PN260

MR ROBERTSON: We are - we have been waiting a month, we have communicated with the company's lawyers, there has been absolute silence from Gemco at Groote Eylandt in regards to this matter. We are anxious to open discussions in relation to these members.

PN261

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right.

PN262

MS DEAN: Have you used your - one of your colleagues, I am not sure in Brisbane or Darwin?

PN263

MR ROBERTSON: Andrew Denmire who has contacted Julia Fellows but nobody has contacted us.

PN264

MS DEAN: Yes, Julia Fellows contacted me and advised me that she had asked Andrew to contact me directly, I have never heard from him.

PN265

MR ROBERTSON: Well, that is certainly not the letter I got from her, but well I am contacting you now, can I have an answer please?

PN266

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Could somebody just follow up on that.

PN267

MS DEAN: Jamie I am sure you can contact me after the completion of this teleconference if you like.

PN268

MR ROBERTSON: More than happy to.

PN269

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And I will ring Commissioner Hodder and ask him who won.

PN270

MR ROBERTSON: Okay.

PN271

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right.

PN272

MR ROBERTSON: What ..... do you want for the cup carnival.

PN273

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Sorry? When is it?

PN274

MR ROBERTSON: The week you are here, the first Monday in August. So several meetings during the week which will be quite enjoyable.

PN275

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, that was well timed wasn't it.

PN276

MR ROBERTSON: It was.

PN277

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The Full Bench roster was none of my timing.

PN278

MR ROBERTSON: I am sure it wasn't.

PN279

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: But just for your information I have recently been appointed Chairman of the Northern Territory Police Tribunal so I shall be visiting Darwin more often than I have ever planned.

PN280

MR ROBERTSON: Congratulations.

PN281

MR McDONALD: Congratulations.

PN282

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: But you will have to tell me when the social events are on so I can time it accordingly.

PN283

MR ROBERTSON: We will make sure that you are put on the appropriate lists.

PN284

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you for that.

PN285

MR McDONALD: All through the dry season is appropriate, Deputy Commissioner.

PN286

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, it sounds good to me too. All right well, look if there is nothing else to report, the week that we are in Darwin I will list those other three matters and you can tell me what is happening with them, but it seems to me that most of the issues have been resolved satisfactorily to both parties, and that is a good result for everybody I congratulate you.

PN287

MR SULLIVAN: Deputy Commissioner, it is Tony Sullivan here.

PN288

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, Tony.

PN289

MR SULLIVAN: There is just one more point that Keith Johnson would like to mention.

PN290

MR JOHNSON: Deputy Commissioner, just the security on the housing, I have been broken into three times, I had an agreement - well, a verbal agreement with the company that they would go case by case fully securing the houses, the security screens on all the windows of the houses.

PN291

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN292

MR JOHNSON: Now, I have had discussions with the company and they said they were not happy about answering our comments regarding if they had anyone in for maintenance on all the houses.

PN293

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right.

PN294

MR JOHNSON: And now I have been told I have to write a letter, give the dates of when I have been broken into and submit that letter to Colliers before they even look at it.

PN295

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Colliers as I recall it are now managing the houses is that correct?

PN296

MR JOHNSON: That is right. First of all they said they would look into it and then they would come back to me and I would have to write a letter explaining why you should have the house secured. One of the reasons because we are paying power now, at the moment, it is only 4 cents per kilowatt. We have got the dry season and might have our windows open and I have to close them every time we go out, ..... secure the houses and because I have been broken into three times and I have got police documentation and insurance companies had to pay out some money.

PN297

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Sure.

PN298

MR JOHNSON: Still it is a bit hard and the amount of time that we have to get anything done.

PN299

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, so is this an issue with the company or is it an issue with Colliers?

PN300

MR JOHNSON: Well, it is with the company because it is their houses, they own the houses. Colliers is the contractor working for the company. It is just there is a run around that everybody has to do to try and get anything done nowadays.

PN301

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, can the company respond and perhaps give some indication to Mr Johnson what the process is?

PN302

MS DEAN: Deputy President, we are in a little bit of a disadvantage given that that matter is not part of this dispute notification and I don't have any specific instructions about it. So it might be appropriate if Mr Johnson comes and sees us at the conclusion of the teleconference - - -

PN303

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is right he is over there, yes.

PN304

MS DEAN: - - - and we can discuss the matter further then.

PN305

MR FERGUSON: Deputy President, that would be covered under point 5 on page 9.

PN306

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That was Joe Ferguson, I would say. Sorry, which one was it?

PN307

MR FERGUSON: Top of page 9.

PN308

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Page 9, yes.

PN309

MR FERGUSON: It is in relation ..... communities. Standard ..... of community residents - - -

PN310

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay.

PN311

MR FERGUSON: It was an issue that had been discussed last EBA and previous EBA and there was an undertaking from the company verbally, it would be addressed on a case by case basis.

PN312

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I see. Well, perhaps what Mr Johnson needs to do is to speak to the company and give them the details and they will do whatever is necessary to clear the air. On the basis that they are not aware of it and it has been dropped on them without notice.

PN313

MR JOHNSON: It is Keith Johnson, I have - the last JCC meeting I had and every one before that, I have spoken to the company and they agreed verbally they would get it done. Every time I go in to Colliers it seems to have been snowballed. So I don't know who is blocking it or what is going on.

PN314

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right.

PN315

MR JOHNSON: I will go through the process of writing the letter if I have to. It just seems like it is going to take a month to get knocked back again.

PN316

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. What I think you should do is once we adjourn is to speak to the company so that the process can be put in motion and you can get the matter resolved as quickly as possible and there maybe needs to be some indication given to everybody what the process is when you need to deal with these sorts of issues.

PN317

MS DEAN: Well, in relation to the second part, Deputy President, that has been done.

PN318

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Has it, right.

PN319

MS DEAN: There is a process in place for dealing with township issues.

PN320

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Good. All right, well perhaps if Mr Johnson speaks to you - - -

PN321

MR FULLER: I just imagine that Colliers, all they are doing is - I know it just adding a bit of bureaucracy to the process but I guess if they were - they operate nationally around Australia, if a tenant comes in and says, you know, I want to put in an application from some additional screen etcetera, I would imagine that their process would be to well give us a written application, you know, the dates you were broken into etcetera, etcetera, so that when the screening is done, you know, if Joe Blow rocks off the street and says I want the same, well there is some sort of paper trail of commitment and guarantee that there actually - we all know Keith has been broken into, all Colliers is doing is probably what they do nationally, following some sort of due process.

PN322

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, maybe if someone from the company can just explain to him what he needs to do so that he can get it fixed as quickly as possible. It shouldn't take this long to get fixed. There may be a breakdown in communication somewhere, but it needs to be sorted out somehow. So if he can talk to the company once we adjourn and see whether then can become resolved. Okay.

PN323

MS DEAN: Thanks, Deputy President.

PN324

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, if there is nothing else.

PN325

MR McDONALD: Deputy President, Didge McDonald in Darwin. I think it is probably appropriate on behalf of the union just to make a couple of points at this time. You know we are here because in our view the health and safety processes at Gemco has broken down rather badly. Obviously, efforts will need to be made by the company and by the union to re-entering the health and safety processes at Gemco. You know the fact that we have resolved these particular issues is certainly not by no means the end of the story.

PN326

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, but if you work together, I think you will work your way through most of the problems. I think you have demonstrated your ability to do that.

PN327

MR McDONALD: Yes, that is correct and I think we don't want to be having to go back to the Commissioner himself every time there is a problem that needs to be resolved on site. The processes need to be worked on to improve the situation on Groote Eylandt. And we will be keeping a very close eye on how that develops and we certainly want to see some of the practices and processes improved, and things like the use of health and safety for disciplinary means, things like that need to be sorted out very quickly.

PN328

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I understand what you are saying, but I think there is a reasonably good relationship there now and you should be able to work you way through these problems. Okay, nobody else? Nobody else? All right, on that basis, thank you for your attendance this morning. I hope you are all well and it is much warmer up there than it is down here, and I will list the three matters that we discussed for some sort of report back, possibly by telephone on the week commencing 22 July sometime. Thank you.

PN329

MR McDONALD: Thank you very much.

PN330

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you. This matter is now adjourned.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [10.45am]