C0024/198, Transcript of Proceedings [2002] AIRCTrans 2700 (16 July 2002)

AUSCRIPT PTY LTD
ABN 76 082 664 220

Level 4, 179 Queen St MELBOURNE Vic 3000
(GPO Box 1114 MELBOURNE Vic 3001)
DX 305 Melbourne Tel:[phone] Fax:[phone]

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N VT04721

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER EAMES

C Nos 00241, 00242, 00243, 00465,
00497, 00774 and 00857 of 1998
C Nos 00294, 00298, 00437, 00438,
00771 and 00773 of 1999

AUTOMOTIVE SERVICES (NORTHERN
TERRITORY) CONSOLIDATED AWARD
1980

NHULUNBUY CORPORATION SERVICES AND
MAINTENANCE (NORTHERN TERRITORY)
EMPLOYEES AWARD 1981

RANGER URANIUM CLEANING CONTRACTORS
(N.T.) AWARD 1991

METAL INDUSTRY (NORTHERN TERRITORY)
(CONSOLIDATED) AWARD 1982

CLERKS (PAULS LIMITED) NORTHERN
TERRITORY AWARD 2001

DOCTORS' NURSES (NORTHERN TERRITORY)
AWARD 1980

GOLD AND METALLIFEROUS MINING (NT)
AWARD 1990

INSURANCE EMPLOYEES' (TERRITORY
INSURANCE OFFICE) AWARD 1981

MUNICIPAL EMPLOYEES (NORTHERN
TERRITORY) AWARD 1993

MUNICIPAL OFFICERS (NORTHERN
TERRITORY) AWARD 1993

MUNICIPAL OFFICERS' (JABIRU TOWN
COUNCIL OFFICERS) INTERIM AWARD
1987

NURSES (NORTHERN TERRITORY) PRIVATE
SECTOR AWARD 1989

REMOTE COMMUNITIES LOCAL GOVERNMENT
(NORTHERN TERRITORY) INTERIM AWARD
1989

Review under Item 51, Schedule 5,
Transitional WROLA Act 1996 re award
simplification

MELBOURNE

10.05 AM, MONDAY, 1 JULY 2002

THE FOLLOWING HEARING WAS CONDUCTED BY VIDEO CONFERENCE IN MELBOURNE

PN1

THE COMMISSIONER: Can I take the appearances in this award, please. The Automotive Services (NT) Consolidated Award? Perhaps if I start in Darwin.

PN2

MR D. ALDERSON: I appear for the Northern Territory Chamber of Commerce and Industry.

PN3

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, and in Sydney? Sydney?

PN4

MR N. SWANCOTT: I appear for the LHMU.

PN5

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, and I take it there is no one from Darwin. The last note that I had on my records was that - - -

PN6

MS K. COTIS: Commissioner, sorry, excuse me, I am appearing for the AMWU.

PN7

THE COMMISSIONER: Good, thank you. All right, the last note I had was that there had been a draft prepared by Neil Swancott which was going to be sent to the unions to have a look at, and that we would see where we would go from there. Perhaps I could start with you, Mr Swancott, what is the situation?

PN8

MR SWANCOTT: Well, Commissioner, my understanding is that our Northern Territory branch located the electronic draft and circulated that. Now I think that was circulated in Darwin, and I have a suspicion it didn't reach the national offices of the SDA or the AMWU. But that draft has been subject to ..... by NTCCI.

PN9

THE COMMISSIONER: Well, the other thing that I should have mentioned to, in relation to this award, this was one of the ones where we also sent a request to our unit on 3 June to reformat the existing award and to bring it up to speed. Now, as of yet, we haven't received that back. It may be in the circumstances that there hasn't been a document circulated nationally, but we are best to wait for that draft to come back, and then I will undertake to distribute that to all of the relevant parties, who I understand would be the ALHMWU, the AMWU, the SDA and the Northern Territory Chamber of Commerce. Would that cover all the parties?

PN10

MR G. BEVIS: Commissioner, I do apologise. I missed the call in the beginning. Could we be included on that list, too, please.

PN11

THE COMMISSIONER: All right.

PN12

MR SWANCOTT: Commissioner, with respect, I am not sure that we need the unit's draft. My understanding of the current situation is that NTCCI has produced a draft - a comment on our draft, by way of strikethrough and revised clauses where it disagrees with the LHMU draft. We have subsequently responded to the NTCCIs commentary and it has narrowed the issues down as far as I can see, to one or two points. My understanding is that Doug's draft has gone to all of the parties. So we are all but in agreement on the final document - - -

PN13

THE COMMISSIONER: Okay.

PN14

MR SWANCOTT: - - - and we don't really need a new one.

PN15

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Okay. Perhaps, Mr Alderson, you can confirm that?

PN16

MR ALDERSON: Yes, thank you, Commissioner. I wasn't in the office on Friday, but I received a response in the e-mail this morning from DEETYA with their comments on my last comments, which haven't been done recently, they were done quite a while ago. I haven't had a chance to look at DEETYAs response, but probably that is fairly close to the mark, I don't think there is a great deal that we are, you know, disagreeing on, but I haven't had a chance to go through what DEETYA sent me, as yet.

PN17

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Well, perhaps in those circumstances if we allow that dialogue to take place between the ALHMWU and the Chamber, once agreement is reached there, could I leave it to either of the Misco's or the Chamber to then distribute that draft to the metal workers, the SDA, and the motor traders, for comment, and any issues that they might have. What I have in mind is that on my next rostered trip to Darwin, which is the first week of August, that I would look at relisting the matter then to see if agreement has been reached or how close we are to getting agreement, with a view to then getting a final draft off to our unit.

PN18

I will cancel the request in the meantime in relation to the draft we were going to get prepared and what I am looking at, at this point in terms of dates, is 8 August if that is convenient for people, at 10.30 Darwin time. And that would give a month to at least give the other parties a chance to look at the draft and any comments. If need be, you can tic-tac with each other over any massaging that it might need and I can get a report then on 8 August. Would that be convenient for everyone?

PN19

MR ALDERSON: Yes, thank you, Commissioner.

PN20

MS COTIS: Yes, Commissioner.

PN21

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, we will go with that then. Relist 8 August, 10.30 am, Darwin time. The next one is in relation to - can I say if in fact agreement is reached, or very close to it, it may not be necessary to organise a three-way video conference. If the parties, who would be appearing in Darwin, are able to give me that report, without the need to hook anybody else in, then that would save a bit of cost and inconvenience to other people who may well have other things to do.

PN22

But perhaps I can be brought up to speed with that prior to the 8th. All right, the Nhulunbuy Corporation Services and Maintenance Award. I think there the Miscellaneous Workers were to respond to the Chamber, particularly in relation to wage rates. Can I be brought up to date with that award?

PN23

MR ALDERSON: Commissioner, I haven't received anything since Barbara made some comments prior to going on maternity leave.

PN24

THE COMMISSIONER: Well, I am only going back to the previous - - -

PN25

MR ALDERSON: So that is why - - -

PN26

THE COMMISSIONER: - - - hearing where the note that I had was that you were waiting for responses at that time from the - - -

PN27

MR ALDERSON: Yes.

PN28

THE COMMISSIONER: - - - Miscellaneous Workers, particularly it was in relation to wage rates and I had hoped that in the intervening month something might have been able to be sorted in relation to that.

PN29

MR ALDERSON: Like I said, Commissioner, Barbara did some comments on that prior to her maternity leave and we, as far as I am aware, we haven't received any response, anything since then.

PN30

THE COMMISSIONER: Okay.

PN31

MR ALDERSON: And that is all I have been saying each time it has come up.

PN32

THE COMMISSIONER: Okay. Perhaps if I can ask you, Mr Swancott, through - your organisation hasn't prepared anything in relation to this one?

PN33

MR SWANCOTT: Well, Commissioner, we forwarded a draft in June 2001 and subsequently put forward a minimum rates conversion table for the 15 classifications in the award. Now according to my records, we have not had any comment on the paid rates conversion proposals, so I am not sure that it is us that is responding to the - - -

PN34

THE COMMISSIONER: Okay.

PN35

MR SWANCOTT: - - - Chamber, or the other way round, but I can sort that out with Mr Alderson on the telephone.

PN36

THE COMMISSIONER: Okay.

PN37

MR SWANCOTT: It might save - I didn't look at this because I thought that that was the status of it, that the award was completed except for paid rates conversion.

PN38

THE COMMISSIONER: Okay. Well, I guess - yes, Mr Alderson.

PN39

MR ALDERSON: I am not sure whether we are - Barbara - like I said, Barbara Roberts was working on this one and she had made comments just on the draft award. If she had received anything on paid rates, she would have given it to me, and that doesn't ring a bell. I haven't seen anything, so whether we have received that or not, I would have to check with her, but clearly she hasn't given me anything on the paid rates, so my understanding was that is was her - she had made comments on the draft that they were working from and we hadn't received anything back on those comments.

PN40

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Well, look I will leave it for - I take it there is no other parties to this award?

PN41

MR ALDERSON: No.

PN42

THE COMMISSIONER: No, all right. That being the case, if I leave it to you two gentlemen to tic-tac on where it is at and if need be in relation to that conversion table, Mr Swancott, you may need to send that off again to the Chamber, but I will relist this one also for 8 August, 10.30 am, Darwin time. All right, the next one - - -

PN43

MR ..........: Commissioner, ..... from the SDA.

PN44

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN45

MR ..........: I have just got one - I have just got one quick question. I have noticed on the listing here that the retail award is not included but I thought at our last meeting there was a look in that your unit was preparing something for circulation? In the supermarkets.

PN46

THE COMMISSIONER: I am not sure about that. No. It is not listed for today, but in fact it has been sent to the unit, Chris just informs me, but we haven't received a response back from them yet.

PN47

MR ..........: Thank you.

PN48

THE COMMISSIONER: The Ranger Uranium Cleaning Contractors Award. I think both the Miscellaneous Workers and the Mines and Metals Association are involved with this one and there is one company, as I understand it, UREST(?), which the Mines and Metals Association were going to attempt to get a response from. Perhaps Ms Healey, you can bring me up to date?

PN49

MS T. HEALEY: Yes, Commissioner, I can confirm that UREST has had some discussions with Neil over the last couple of weeks regarding this particular award. We put forward all of our concerns to Neil, Neil has responded and we are pretty close to agreement on that one. There is just a couple of clauses that need redrafting. Neil sent us an e-mail, it must have been about Wednesday or Thursday last week on this one, and we are pretty much almost there with this one. I don't think you'll need to relist it. We just have a couple of clauses that we need to word, one or two other issues that we need to discuss and I don't think you will need to relist that one.

PN50

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, thank you. Mr Swancott, you can confirm that?

PN51

MR SWANCOTT: Yes, Commissioner.

PN52

THE COMMISSIONER: Good, well look in that case I won't relist this award. Just leave it to the parties to reach agreement on the draft. When it is completed, that could be forwarded to Chris, my associate, by e-mail. We will give it a final look over. If everything is satisfactory we will issue a new award in due course. All right, the Metal Industry (Northern Territory) Award? What is the status there? Who wants to take the lead?

PN53

MR ALDERSON: Commissioner, the last I have seen or heard of this one was - I sent some stuff up to Graeme Beard, that was several report backs ago, and I haven't heard or seen anything since, and I mentioned it to you - - -

PN54

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN55

MR ALDERSON: - - - probably a month or two ago to get it relisted. I don't know that we were a great deal apart but it is just - nothing has really happened for the last few months.

PN56

THE COMMISSIONER: Okay. Any of the unions able to respond? We will take Sydney.

PN57

MR BEARD: You recall that the last occasion that this was subject to a video conference - I think we had appearances taken and then there was a breakdown in technology. However, as Mr Alderson has said, nothing has happened in regards to this particular matter, for quite a while. The document that I have is marked as "Mark 2", and I have to admit I haven't received anything from Mr Alderson in regard to it. I know that at one stage he was talking about sending some documentation through but as I say I am unaware of it coming through my computer.

PN58

MR ALDERSON: Graeme, have you received anything from me, so I can sort of chase up what you have or haven't got and I can e-mail it off to you when I get back to the office?

PN59

MR BEARD: As I say, Doug, I have been working off Adrian Hart's file and it is quite a - there is a lot of paperwork associated with it that - with your documentation, if you send it through to my e-mail which is [e-mail], that will come directly to me.

PN60

MR ALDERSON: Yes, so that is [e-mail]?

PN61

MR BEARD: AWU.

PN62

MR ALDERSON: AWU.

PN63

THE COMMISSIONER: Well that is a terrible Freudian slip, Mr Alderson.

PN64

MR ALDERSON: Sorry, I had written AWU, I just can't read my own writing.

PN65

MR BEARD: I am used to it. But having looked through Adrian's file, Commissioner, it seems as though most of the issues that he has raised aren't of a major situation. I think we will be able to process this matter fairly readily. It may be pertinent though to relist it for a report back on 8 August, just to provide some focus to the parties in completing the matter.

PN66

THE COMMISSIONER: Okay, what is the situation with the Metal Workers. They have a view about this award?

PN67

MR E. MOORHEAD: We have the same opinion as Mr Beard that we are - the parties weren't that far apart, but we have just lost track of where it is up to, with changeover of staff and I would appreciate it if Mr Alderson could provide me with a copy of the updated - the final draft - or, sorry, the draft that you referred to earlier.

PN68

MR ALDERSON: Yes. Evan, can you give me your e-mail address, please?

PN69

MR MOORHEAD: It is emoorhead - - -

PN70

MR ALDERSON: Yes.

PN71

MR MOORHEAD: - - - @amwu.asn.au. I have spoken to Barry Burton, who was looking after the award for us, he was - and he has told me that there was all but one or two issues that were left and they looked like being applications under section 113 to deal with them.

PN72

THE COMMISSIONER: Are they matters that have not already been dealt with in the - and the Metal Industry Award has been under a fair bit of scrutiny for a fair while now, and I would assume there is nothing terribly new to be reinvented.

PN73

MR ALDERSON: I think from memory, Commissioner, it was probably just some things that weren't currently in our award that needed to get put in to meet test case standards, things like that.

PN74

THE COMMISSIONER: I see.

PN75

MR ALDERSON: There was little summaries - you know, little explanatory notes - they have in a lot of clauses that they wanted to get in, that weren't currently in the award. So it is just that - more little bits and pieces like that.

PN76

THE COMMISSIONER: If that is the case, then there is no reason why we can't process a variation to the award at the same time that we deal with the new award. We just want to be sure that the dates essentially correspond so that at a particular point in time when the new award is made, all of the appropriate wage rates, any standards that the parties agree to adopt, and all the rest of it, are all operative from a particular date. We can co-ordinate that through our office so long as we know about it all. The suggestion by Mr Beard to relist the matter on the 8th I think is a sensible one to allow the parties to try and co-ordinate that activity.

PN77

If there is agreement on the 113 variations and an application is made prior to that date, we can see if we can co-ordinate that at the same time but at the moment I will simply relist the matter for 8 August. Were there any other parties required notification in relation to this matter? All right, if not, we will do that. The next one is the Clerks (Pauls Limited) Northern Territory Award. We were looking at sending this off to the unit as well, this award, and it certainly hasn't come back yet, in terms of reformatting and being brought up to date. Are parties comfortable with us waiting for that to occur?

PN78

It would appear there is no one here relevant to that award. All right, well that being the case we will wait till that comes back from the unit and for the purposes of the record, I will indicate that I will relist this matter in due course once it has been distributed to the parties. The next one we had listed was the Doctors' Nurses Awards, but Mr Blake is not here today, sent his apologies in, so we will move on from that one. The - - -

PN79

MR ALDERSON: Commissioner?

PN80

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN81

MR ALDERSON: Sorry, just on that, at the last report back, I think Nick had sent us some notes, revised draft or whatever, and my understanding was that it was going to get - it and the Nurses NT private sector were getting sent to the unit, so I thought - well, it is pointless making comments on his draft, when I get another draft back shortly from the unit.

PN82

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, we will leave that.

PN83

MR ALDERSON: So is that the case, you did send that to the unit?

PN84

THE COMMISSIONER: Has that one gone? It had - I don't know - the Doctors' Nurses one apparently hasn't gone yet. There is a Nursing Award that has - we will chase this one up.

PN85

MR ALDERSON: Yes, because I have got a draft to make some comments on - like I said I didn't, because my understanding was that it was - and with Nick's e-mail I thought it said well he is - I would cc - I think it went to you - I thought it said along the lines "Well, here is the latest draft, if you want to send it to the unit, go for it" sort of thing. So that is why I didn't bother making any comments on it.

PN86

THE COMMISSIONER: Well, look, you might as well work off that draft. If there is one there, if you could have a look at it, send some comments to Mr Blake in relation to it. It may be that it is not far away for your specific purposes and if that - - -

PN87

MR ALDERSON: Yes.

PN88

THE COMMISSIONER: - - - was the case we don't need to send it off to the unit. I will relist this for 8 August, give you the chance to do that in the meantime.

PN89

MR ALDERSON: Yes, thank you.

PN90

THE COMMISSIONER: The other thing I suppose I should indicate is that we haven't received a copy of Mr Blake's draft either. That probably doesn't matter for the time being, because we are probably more interested in working off the one that you two eventually can get agreement on. At any rate, I will leave that with you, Mr Alderson, to respond to Mr Blake.

PN91

MR ALDERSON: Thank you.

PN92

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. The Gold and Metalliferous Mining Award. Now the question with this award was whether or not it was to be set aside. Has there been any further information in relation to that award?

PN93

MS HEALEY: Commissioner, I don't think AMMA has changed its position, unless we - we wouldn't have a problem with this award being set aside. I - from what I understood the ALHMWU had a different opinion on that, so, correct me if I am wrong, but that is - I understood that the union did have a different opinion on that - - -

PN94

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN95

MS HEALEY: - - - award being set aside. We haven't heard any - from the union as to whether they - - -

PN96

THE COMMISSIONER: Is there any existing respondent to this award?

PN97

MS HEALEY: Not that are members of AMMA.

PN98

THE COMMISSIONER: No. All right. Are the Miscellaneous Workers able to inform us?

PN99

MR SWANCOTT: Commissioner, our Northern Territory branch is looking at this. I haven't looked at this award at all, so I will find out what the story is and talk to Tammy about it, and advise you as to whether it needs to be relisted for the purpose of setting it aside or whatever.

PN100

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, thanks, Mr Swancott. As far as we were aware, there had been only one respondent to the award and it is now no longer mining, and that being the case it begged the question as to whether there was any relevance in keeping the award alive, but I will leave that with you. I won't relist the matter, but if you could inform my office in due course as to what the position is. If it is to continue, it is probably one that can be best sent off to the unit. If it is not, we will simply set the award aside if the parties inform us that that is their wish.

PN101

MR SWANCOTT: Yes, Commissioner.

PN102

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. The Insurance Employees TIO Award. We had sent this - a draft of this award off to the unit on 4 June. As yet we haven't received a response. I take it there has been no other contact between the parties in relation to this award?

PN103

MR ALDERSON: Commissioner, I made some comments on the unit's draft they had sent - or the unit's comments and because you said that you wanted us to make our comments today, I just e-mailed that to Christine this morning, so she may not have had a chance to get it off her e-mail, but basically I agreed with virtually everything the unit said - a couple of little points. But today, I have received something from - actually it was addressed to you, dated 28 June, but like I said I wasn't in on Friday, so I only got it this morning, so it is five or six pages from the union, then some wage calculations, and then there is another draft award.

PN104

I haven't had an opportunity to look at them, I don't know whether it is based on the draft the unit looked at or whether it is completely different or whatever, but - so I have only received that stuff this morning. But I assume that went to yourself as well.

PN105

THE COMMISSIONER: No, we haven't - - -

PN106

MR ALDERSON: It was a letter - - -

PN107

THE COMMISSIONER: - - - received that at this stage, Mr Alderson. Who was the union?

PN108

MR ALDERSON: The FSU - is it Ms Lewis?

PN109

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN110

MR ALDERSON: You said she was unavailable - - -

PN111

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, she put an apology in for today - - -

PN112

MR ALDERSON: Yes.

PN113

THE COMMISSIONER: - - - but we didn't receive anything beyond the apology.

PN114

MR ALDERSON: I can probably forward that e-mail from her on to Christine, for you, if you like?

PN115

THE COMMISSIONER: Well, that might be helpful just to complete the record. Obviously, they will need - you will need to touch base with Ms Lewis in relation to her comments. Perhaps if I can give you time to do that. At this stage I will indicate that I will relist for 8 August. In the meantime, if agreement was reached, in relation to the terms of the new award, if you can let me know that and ensure that we get an e-mail version of the proposed draft, we will delete it from the 8 August listings. But, for the time being, I will relist it for a report back.

PN116

MR ALDERSON: Yes. Thank you.

PN117

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. The Municipal Officers NT Award?

PN118

MS HEALEY: Commissioner, I have got the Municipal Employees listed here as well.

PN119

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, I am sorry, yes. Municipal - - -

PN120

MS HEALEY: You are right - well with the - - -

PN121

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, the Employees Award first.

PN122

MS HEALEY: Okay, well, what I understand with the Employees is that we do have a draft, but unfortunately we haven't had a chance to - we are still going through the draft, haven't had a chance to make too many comments on that particular one. So if you could relist that one for 8 August.

PN123

THE COMMISSIONER: Okay.

PN124

MS HEALEY: We will endeavour to have - - -

PN125

THE COMMISSIONER: And the respondent, I take it, is the ASU?

PN126

MS HEALEY: The Employees is the ALHMWU - - -

PN127

THE COMMISSIONER: ALHMWU?

PN128

MS HEALEY: - - - and with the Officers, it is the ASU.

PN129

THE COMMISSIONER: Good.

PN130

MS HEALEY: In regard to the Officers we are still waiting for a response from the ASU. We have made some comments on that particular one to the ASU, and as yet we are still awaiting a response.

PN131

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, well - - -

PN132

MS HEALEY: But the - - -

PN133

THE COMMISSIONER: - - - the draft - - -

PN134

MS HEALEY: The Employees - - -

PN135

THE COMMISSIONER: - - - that you have in relation to the Municipal Employees, you will get that to the union?

PN136

MS HEALEY: Yes. I think - - -

PN137

THE COMMISSIONER: For comment?

PN138

MS HEALEY: Yes.

PN139

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Swancott, should that come to the National Office?

PN140

MR SWANCOTT: Yes, please, Commissioner.

PN141

THE COMMISSIONER: All right.

PN142

MR SWANCOTT: I think it might have - - -

PN143

THE COMMISSIONER: If that could be sent to Mr Swancott, and I will relist it for 8 August and we will see where we are at that stage. Again, in the interim, with all of these awards, if agreement is reached, get a copy to us and if we can delete it from the list by issuing an award, we will. The Municipal Officers NT Award?

PN144

MS HEALEY: Yes. Commissioner, we have made comments on this particular one to the ASU and we are still awaiting response from the union.

PN145

THE COMMISSIONER: And is that the National Office?

PN146

MS HEALEY: I would have thought it was more likely to be the local office.

PN147

THE COMMISSIONER: With Mr Matterazzo?

PN148

MS HEALEY: Mr Matterazzo, yes. I am sorry, Commissioner, I would have to confirm that but I would suspect it is - I know that Brett and Lucio have some discussions on this. They have had a couple of meetings about this particular award, so I suspect - - -

PN149

THE COMMISSIONER: I will relist for 8 August and I will contact Mr Matterazzo to see where that is at to ensure that the matter keeps moving. And the Jabiru Town Council Award?

PN150

MS HEALEY: Commissioner, I am not sure that we have even got a draft of this - any comments from the Commission Simplification Unit. Do you know if this one has actually been sent off for - - -

PN151

THE COMMISSIONER: There has nothing been done. We can certainly send this award off for a draft.

PN152

MS HEALEY: Could you?

PN153

THE COMMISSIONER: Which I would undertake to distribute to yourselves and the ASU, I take it, is the only other respondent?

PN154

MS HEALEY: Yes, that would be good. Yes, I didn't think I had come across the draft of that particular one, so yes, if you could do that.

PN155

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, we will, and I will distribute - - -

PN156

MS HEALEY: And we will endeavour to get that one - - -

PN157

THE COMMISSIONER: - - - that to you and we will relist the matter in due course.

PN158

MS HEALEY: Okay, thank you.

PN159

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. The Nurses (Northern Territory) Private Sector Award. We did organise on 4 June for a draft to go to our unit. We haven't seen anything yet. Has there been any discussions at all between the parties?

PN160

MR ALDERSON: No, Commissioner, I think we have both just been waiting on getting the response back from your unit.

PN161

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. We will get that out to you as soon as we can. And I take it it is simply the Chamber and the ANF are the relevant parties?

PN162

MR ALDERSON: As far as I am aware, that is all, Commissioner.

PN163

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. And the final one for today is the Remote Communities Local Government Award?

PN164

MS HEALEY: Yes, Commissioner. Once again we are awaiting responses from the union on this one as well. We have made some comments on this particular award.

PN165

THE COMMISSIONER: And that was sent to the ASUs NT branch?

PN166

MS HEALEY: Yes.

PN167

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. I will follow that up. We will relist it in due course.

PN168

MS HEALEY: It would have been sent to the - I would have thought it would have been sent to the ALHMWU as well.

PN169

MR SWANCOTT: Commissioner?

PN170

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN171

MR SWANCOTT: There has been detailed correspondence on this award between Brett Barton and my union, in two areas, both as to the terms of the award, where we put detailed answers to initial propositions from the employer groups, but the second area, we put a detailed submission, if you like, to the employer organisations on minimum rates adjustment, and on this award the minimum rates have not completed the - or the wage rates have not completed the August 1989 National Wage Case minimum rates adjustment process, and we have put forward a proposition.

PN172

Now I understood that the employer organisations were to - we invited them to come back with a proposition relating to phasing in the new rates that would be the probably fixed minimum rates and I am waiting on that response. But - - -

PN173

MS HEALEY: Neil?

PN174

MR SWANCOTT: - - - sorry, I was just going to say that this one may need arbitration.

PN175

THE COMMISSIONER: Okay.

PN176

MS HEALEY: Okay. Neil, would you mind e-mailing me a copy of that proposal?

PN177

MR SWANCOTT: Yes, okay.

PN178

MS HEALEY: I am not too sure - or Brett - e-mail either myself or Brett a copy of that proposal. Has Brett made comment on it?

PN179

MR SWANCOTT: Yes. He knocked it back.

PN180

MS HEALEY: He already has it?

PN181

MR SWANCOTT: No, no, sorry, the commentary was that - that it involved significant pay rises which is true and to which we responded we would - we would consider any proposal that phased them in. Now, there is an ALGAT(?) letter dated 3 June 2002 which would - - -

PN182

MS HEALEY: Okay.

PN183

MR SWANCOTT: - - - refer to these matters in some detail, to which we - - -

PN184

MS HEALEY: Okay, all right. If Brett has already addressed it, then that is fine. He just hadn't mentioned it to me, but that is okay.

PN185

MR SWANCOTT: So, Commissioner, what I - what I undertake in relation to this is, see if in the next week or two I can get from the employer organisations a clear idea of what is still in issue and advise you accordingly.

PN186

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. I think that is appropriate in all the circumstances. I will relist this matter for 8 August for report back. In the interim, if it is clarified that in fact there is going to be a need for some arbitration in relation to any of these issues, I would appreciate being informed of that as soon as practicable. Because we are on a roster these days of circuit work in the Territory, we will have to consider where and when we would conduct any arbitrations. So if I can leave that with both you, Ms Healey, to get back to Mr Barton and for you, Mr Swancott, to try and work through those issues, and let me know. But for the moment, we will relist for report back on 8 August.

PN187

MR SWANCOTT: Commissioner, thank you. Before you sign off on this, can you indicate other days that you would - that you are rostered to be in the Territory - - -

PN188

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN189

MR SWANCOTT: - - - so that we don't have to change the - - -

PN190

THE COMMISSIONER: I will be there all that work.

PN191

MR SWANCOTT: Yes.

PN192

THE COMMISSIONER: You are unlikely to get me on the Monday, because it is Darwin Cup.

PN193

MR SWANCOTT: Yes.

PN194

THE COMMISSIONER: One has to have one's priorities.

PN195

MR SWANCOTT: So we could get you but still - - -

PN196

THE COMMISSIONER: I am also there on the Thursday - well, I will be there travelling to Darwin on 1 August, which is the previous Thursday, would be available for that afternoon if there is anything that needs to be dealt with and would be available for some time on Friday.

PN197

MR SWANCOTT: Right, I was thinking of after the 8th.

PN198

THE COMMISSIONER: After the 8th - certainly Friday morning, at this stage, but at a pinch, we can hold over till the - to take in all of the Friday as well and have Friday morning, but I would need to be back in Melbourne for the following week.

PN199

MR SWANCOTT: The problem with the week of the 8th - - -

PN200

THE COMMISSIONER: Perhaps, just if I could interrupt you for a sec, if we are just looking at diary notes and things it is probably not necessary to stay on the record, so I will simply adjourn these proceedings to the time and dates fixed during the course of these proceedings.

ADJOURNED ACCORDINGLY [10.42pm]