C2001/5673, Transcript of Proceedings [2002] AIRCTrans 2744 (18 July 2002)

AUSCRIPT PTY LTD
ABN 76 082 664 220

Level 4, 179 Queen St MELBOURNE Vic 3000
(GPO Box 1114J MELBOURNE Vic 3001)
DX 305 Melbourne Tel:[phone] Fax:[phone]

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N VT04761

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER TOLLEY

C2001/5673

ALSTOM POWER LIMITED

and

COMMUNICATIONS, ELECTRICAL, ELECTRONIC,
ENERGY, INFORMATION, POSTAL, PLUMBING
AND ALLIED SERVICES UNION OF AUSTRALIA
and OTHERS

Notification pursuant to section 99 of the Act
of a dispute re working hours at Hazelwood Power
Station

MELBOURNE

10.34 AM, WEDNESDAY, 3 JULY 2002

Continued from 24.6.02

PN357

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Addison. The Commission notes the appearances are unchanged.

PN358

MR ADDISON: Yes. Thanks, Commissioner. Commissioner, since the last time we were here we have had a run-in with the company last Friday in regard to the proposed redundancies. At the beginning of that meeting - or well, from the last time there were eight redundancies mooted. By the time we got to that meeting that number had dropped to six. A couple of people had been accommodated on some alternative work that has been made available, but that is the latest, with six redundancies.

PN359

The company indicated to us that they had conducted Fluor Daniels who had indicated that there were no positions available so far as they were concerned.

PN360

THE COMMISSIONER: Well, I can confirm that the Commission undertook the last time you were before me to speak to that company and I understand they had a problem about losing some work too, to another power station at the same time.

PN361

MR ADDISON: Yes, I understand that, Commissioner, which just compounds ..... The company also indicated that the have sought some assistance from Jobsearch, Employment Innovations and Latrobe Valley Personnel, from whom they had had no reply. The discussion then moved on to a discussion of - or it became apparent that effectively what we are looking at is covering a gap. The company is saying there is no work currently but there will be work in the near future on an outage, on a unit 7 outage, which will occur within the next eight weeks, I believe, eight or so weeks.

PN362

That outage will run for a period of time and there will be work - - -

PN363

THE COMMISSIONER: Is there any estimate that has been given to you as to the length of the work on the outage?

PN364

MR ADDISON: I understand about four weeks, about four weeks, Commissioner. But obviously that is substantial, it is a substantial amount of work on an outage, as the Commission is aware. At the commencement of discussions the company was using the phrase that these six people would be favourably considered for work on that outage. The company then agreed during the course of the discussions that those people would start on the outage, rather than simply a favourable consideration, there was a guaranteed start there or a guaranteed opportunity of a start on that job.

PN365

Obviously if people have found alternative and more favourable employment themselves then they would pick that option up, but short of that, the guarantee was there. We put a proposition given the fact that we were effectively looking at covering a gap, that maybe we could look at some leave being extended to people to cover that gap. We originally started off saying that the employees who are mooted to be made redundant, six, would have some paid leave available to them, they should be allowed to take that and then leave without pay following that, if needs be, to cover the gap and then come back on to the outage.

PN366

Subsequently we have found that somewhat to say that all over the site there are a large number of employees, we presume most of whom would have some paid leave and there could be an opportunity for rostering among those people for that paid leave, and further we found that after that - by saying that it may be possible to extend the opportunity to people to volunteer to take some unpaid leave if they wish for a period of a week or a couple of weeks, effectively reducing the existing numbers on the site by six in the relevant classifications for the gap period.

PN367

From the company's point of view the company were not favourable to any of those suggestions. Maybe I am being too harsh there. The company couldn't come to that extent, I guess is probably the best way of explaining it. The company's position, as I understand it, and I will let Mr Gardner speak for himself, obviously, but as I understand the company's position, the company's position is a clean break for these six individuals, they will be paid out their notice periods and appropriate entitlements and they will have a guaranteed start on the unit 7 outage, they will come back to that outage.

PN368

The company did put a proposition during the course of the discussions that they saw that some people, temporary people, currently as permanent employees. We had some limited discussion on that; not much, but limited discussion on that. We indicated to the company that the existing arrangements couldn't be looked at in isolation with Alstom singly. However, we did indicate to the company that the proposal may have some merit, we were prepared to have some discussions if the company was to facilitate that with the company, the other contractors who operate in the industry and the three clients, and maybe those discussions could be co-ordinated through the AIG or some other appropriate industrial body.

PN369

I guess that is my report, Commissioner. If I have missed anything I am sure my comrades will supplement.

PN370

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. Thanks, Mr Addison. Mr Smith.

PN371

MR SMITH: Thank you, Commissioner. Before we go into private conference if that would be possible to deal with some of the matters that Mr Addison has raised, I would like to hand up to you a letter that was given to all of the employees.

EXHIBIT #A12 LETTER FROM THE COMPANY TO ALL EMPLOYEES

PN372

MR SMITH: As a result of the hearing before you on 24 June the company agreed with the unions that they would place a moratorium of about a week on the redundancies that were identified, and at that hearing there were eight redundancies identified.

PN373

As a result of that hearing and the meeting held on the 28th, if we go to the second page of this document, if you wish to read the first page I will wait till we can move on to the second page.

PN374

THE COMMISSIONER: I have already read it, Mr Smith.

PN375

MR SMITH: Thank you.

PN376

THE COMMISSIONER: I have already read it, Mr Smith.

PN377

MR SMITH: Okay. Thank you, Commissioner. Looking at the positions you will see that shaded grey unit 7, the fitter is the first redundancy, the second fitter is the third, and then there is the boilermaker. The next lot of positions underneath that have been retained. Where it says "precipitators" you will see "a rigger/crane driver". That position there is the fourth redundant position, but however, work has been obtained with the demolition contractor who is going to carry out the demolition of the precipitators, four, the rigger/crane driver.

PN378

The boilermaker below the rigger/crane driver has been retained. In the "mine" you will see "a trades assistant". That is the fifth redundant position. The electrician has been retained, and where it says "outage, the trades assistant", that is the sixth position redundant, and that position or the occupier of that position again has been offered the work with the demolition contractor to demolish the precipitators. Both of those two positions that have been offered work with the demolition contractor have been assured of work when that position is finished with the next outage coming back on that Mr Addison referred to.

PN379

So, we have moved from eight positions here on 24 June being redundant now to six, with a return of two of those positions back to the outage to be conducted in eight weeks' time. The company, Commissioner, is mindful that the scope of work available determines the number of people who can be employed, and the scope of work is determined and offered by the client, Hazelwood Power, not directly by Alstom Power. The company cannot employ people if we haven't got the work. We have got to keep people gainfully employed.

PN380

However, the numbers of the employees that we have retained, and Mr Addison and the unions must be mindful of this, is based upon Alstom being able to secure more work from the client, Hazelwood Power, in the future. Now, the majority of our work comes from outages that come and go, and we mobilise and demobilise for those outages. In the intervening period we try to hang on to as many people as we can possibly, hoping that we will be able to widen either the scope of work or get more work for Hazelwood Power.

PN381

We cannot as an organisation, if you look at the summary of the discussion at the meeting on page 3, and item number 2, it was requested that a minimum establishment for station works be set, and the company has answered that it is not feasible, the nature of the work is that it fluctuates from peaks during the outage to minimum numbers between outages. Now, I could understand the union position to push to establish that, to maintain employment for their members, an ongoing employment for their members, and that is appropriate for the union to take that position, but from Alstom's position being a contractor to the client, to be able to guarantee that sort of arrangement we have got to have work to do it, and as item 2 says, our work fluctuates.

PN382

I would appreciate it, Commissioner, if we could go into private conference so that Mr Marshall and Mr Gardner who were present at that meeting on the 28th could deal with any matters that Mr Addison or any other union person wishes to raise so that we can effectively resolve those matters and move on in business. Thank you, Commissioner.

PN383

MR ADDISON: No objection, Commissioner.

PN384

THE COMMISSIONER: Has anyone else got anything to say? Has anyone else got anything to say that is conducive?

PN385

MR HART: Yes, Commissioner. Just a couple of points on Mr Smith, and I do acknowledge that there has been some movement, and I agree that the Commission can be of more assistance in conference. Mr Smith spoke about work coming from Hazelwood. I say, and I still say that there is work that has already been let to the company from Hazelwood. It is called the demolition of the precipts. That work the company is saying cannot be started until five or six weeks. It is already out to tender. It is not a new process, it is something that has been done four times before.

PN386

I don't see any real major problem with being able to commence the project now, which is the most suitable time to do it when we haven't got an extra couple of hundred people working on an outage on site and would assist both parties in at least reducing the redundancies if we look at the classifications by at least 50 per cent again. If the Commission pleases.

PN387

THE COMMISSIONER: Anything else? The Commission adjourns into conference.

SHORT ADJOURNMENT [10.47am]

RESUMED [12.10pm]

PN388

THE COMMISSIONER: This is a recommendation made pursuant to section 111(1)(2) of the Workplace Relations Act 1996. The Commission requests that transcript be provided urgently of these proceedings. The Commission has been informed by the employer, Alstom Power Limited, that as a result of works it previously performed in what the Commission will describe as the Howard Power Station and Mine, being contracted to another company, eight employees will be made redundant on Friday, 28 June 2002.

PN389

The matter when it was last before the Commission on Monday 24 June 2002 was adjourned on the basis that discussions would take place at Hazelwood on Thursday and Friday 27 and 28 June respectively and that no retrenchments would take place until the parties reported back to the Commission, which is today, Tuesday, 2 July, because of the intervening period. When the parties reported back this morning it was reported that the required redundancies had been reduced to six, and an exhibit A12 which is the second page listed the redundancies and those persons who would not be made redundant at this time.

PN390

During the hearing and conferences this morning the company's representatives informed the Commission and the unions that as a result of a what I will call a mechanical failure at the power station the boilermaker on unit 7 and the outage trades assistant who had additionally been slated for redundancy would not now be made redundant, as they would be needed to work on the rectification of the damage reported. This alleviates the employment situation to some extent.

PN391

The company has informed the Commission also that any work which becomes available prior to the work already listed as becoming available on the number 7 outage will be offered to retrenched employees as a first preference. Any of the remaining four employees who are listed for retrenchment are to be given the option of taking any accrued annual leave and/or leave without pay up to work becoming available on the number 7 outage.

PN392

However, it must be clearly understood by these persons that there are taxation implications in working for another employer while on leave without pay. In other words, you pay the maximum tax, a fact of life. The Commission is aware that this final position presents some outlay on carrying oncosts for the employer, and these oncosts should be supported by the client. Now, further, the Commission is concerned that there appears to be some misunderstanding because of - I won't say lack of information, but the way in which information is transmitted about work now and in the future.

PN393

The company is directed to provide the Commission and the representatives of the work force with a clearly legible statement which sets out the available work and the numbers of persons required to perform that available work within the best of the company's knowledge, so there are no last-minute surprises and if there are any issues which arise in the future the information is there, it is in black and white, it is clearly understood and people can attempt prior to a problem arising to resolve the issues, but that document is not meant to be used by any person as something to whinge about every week and not get on with the job.

PN394

That is my position. I don't believe you can do any better. I have already said it privately, and I will say it publicly. It is a sad fact of life that people bought electricity generation in the Valley at what they thought was a cheap price, and now they have been bitten. Well, greed always comes back and gets people, then they have to pay the piper. My only concern is that it costs good Australian jobs. This Commission is adjourned.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [12.15pm]

INDEX

LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs

EXHIBIT #A12 LETTER FROM THE COMPANY TO ALL EMPLOYEES PN372