C2002/3345, Transcript of Proceedings [2002] AIRCTrans 3067 (8 August 2002)

AUSCRIPT PTY LTD
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N VT05077

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER BLAIR

C2002/3345

HEALTH SERVICES UNION OF AUSTRALIA

and

MITCHAM PRIVATE HOSPITAL

Notification pursuant to section 99
of the Act of a dispute re the
alleged breach of the grievance
procedure

MELBOURNE

12.29 PM, THURSDAY, 25 JULY 2002

Continued from 9.7.02

PN90

MS M. LINDSAY: I appear on behalf of the HSUA.

PN91

MR B. PARSONS: I appear on behalf of Mitcham Private Hospital.

PN92

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. Now, the last time the matter was before the Commission was 9 July. How have things been progressing? Who would like to lead off, please? Mr Parsons.

PN93

MR PARSONS: Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner, on 9 July you issued some recommendations for the parties. The parties were pleased to accept those recommendations and they were that the date of 12 July for staff to place their name on a roster that would become effective 29 July 2002 not proceed and that recommendation was followed. There have not been names placed on a roster in the catering department. However, with the environmental, at the request of the staff concerned a roster has been drawn up with the staff names on it so that they could see fully the impact on them of the proposed changes.

PN94

The effective date of 29 July for when the new roster was to be implemented has not been - and will not be implemented because of your recommendation and we would like to talk to you further about that, the implementation of the rosters when we hope that we can go into a conference after this formal hearing today. The second recommendation, Commissioner, was that the date of 12 July 2002 for people to indicate an expression of interest in a redundancy package not proceed. So what we have done there is say the expression of interest in a redundancy package is still open; there was no cut off date of 12 July.

PN95

Some people have expressed an interest and the interest has been stronger with some than others, but we have not followed through on that. And except in one case where the individual concerned was adamant that she wanted to go, we have not included people who have expressed an interest in redundancy - or perhaps I should rephrase that to say we have included those people, except for the one that I mentioned, in the proposed rosters. So the rosters could change if people who have expressed an interest, and if there are others who come to express an interest, decide that they would rather take the voluntary retrenchment package.

PN96

Your third recommendation, Commissioner, that discussions occur between the parties; that is the HSUA, SIAG and Benchmark Health Care, about the actual change to hours and duties associated with those changes in hours, that has occurred and I will shortly be tabling the document indicating some of the times and dates of discussions. There have been considerable discussions. Some of them, Commissioner, have involved the HSUA, SIAG, Mitcham management and Mitcham staff. Some of them have involved HSUA and Mitcham management and Mitcham staff. Some of them have involved Mitcham management and Mitcham staff.

PN97

But there have been considerable discussions and some in fact have involved SIAG and Mitcham management and Mitcham staff. So there have been considerable discussions between and amongst the parties since the date of 9 July when we were here before you. Your fourth recommendation, Commissioner, that Benchmark provide impact statements to individuals regarding their proposed changes, that has also occurred. Now, I would say, Commissioner, that the impact statements have been completed yesterday. The delay in completing them was because of the consultations.

PN98

There were considerable discussions between individuals, between groups of people and rosters which had been drawn up based on early discussions were then changed again. I think we might have the third - at least a third variation of the roster and that led to the delay in providing the impact statements and the final proposed roster. Now, I apologise formally to my colleague, Mary-Anne Lindsay, in that she has only seen - only been given these rosters and the impact statements within the last 20 minutes, so obviously she has not had an opportunity to go through them in any detail at all.

PN99

But heavy work has been done in preparing them and that heavy work, as I say, involved considerable discussions with the staff at Mitcham in both the environmental and catering areas. There was a - we had agreed - the HSUA and management, including, of course, SIAG, had agreed to approach things a little differently in environmental services and in catering and that was through the wishes of the staff concerned. So there is more detail in the environmental services in that people wanted to be on a roster, as I did mention earlier, they did want to go into discussions with management about their needs and wants and what might be possible and what might not.

PN100

So we are further advanced in environmental services than in catering. In the catering it was agreed to accede to the staff request that they do not at this stage indicate their preference for a roster, they did not want to be shown a roster, although a roster had to be drawn up to be able - to enable the impact statements to be done. So a roster has been drawn up but the roster has not been given to the staff. Commissioner, at this point I think it would be appropriate to table the papers that we have resulting from the work that has been done since 9 July.

PN101

They include the impact statements, position descriptions, changes in duties for the environmental and the catering areas.

PN102

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Are you tendering these, Mr Parsons?

PN103

MR PARSONS: Yes, I am tendering those, Commissioner, and before you mark them I might say I have - in those packs there is no individual impact statement. There is a summary of the impact statement.

PN104

THE COMMISSIONER: Right.

PN105

MR PARSONS: But I have a copy of an individual impact statement which the Commission might like to have also as part of that pack.

PN106

THE COMMISSIONER: Okay. Thank you.

PN107

MR PARSONS: And the individual concerned, Joan Kemp, is in the Court and has agreed that it may be handed up as part of the Commission's file.

PN108

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

EXHIBIT #SIAG1 DOCUMENT BENCHMARK HEALTH CARE MITCHAM PRIVATE HOSPITAL

EXHIBIT #SIAG2 BULK OF DOCUMENTS HEADED MITCHAM PRIVATE HOSPITAL CATERING IMPACT STATEMENT

EXHIBIT #SIAG3 INDIVIDUAL IMPACT STATEMENT

PN109

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, Mr Parsons.

PN110

MR PARSONS: Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner, the Mitcham Private Hospital is, of course, as we expressed last time, very anxious that the restructure goes ahead. As all parties would agree, there is considerable disruption within the hospital, anxiety, unease as a result of the restructure. Clearly, it is in the best interests of the Mitcham and Benchmark organisation that the implementation occur as soon as possible and we would submit that it is al so - despite the pain it is also in the best interests of staff to have the restructure completed as soon as possible.

PN111

THE COMMISSIONER: I suppose it is appropriate to use the term "pain" when you are talking about a hospital.

PN112

MR PARSONS: Yes, thank you, Commissioner. But not so much at Mitcham; I must say the care there is so good that pain is pleasant.

PN113

THE COMMISSIONER: It goes without saying.

PN114

MR PARSONS: Yes. Thank you. So I just make the point that we are keen to see the implementation and we believe that whilst that does come with some disadvantages to the staff concerned, some individuals more than others, that it is our belief that it is in the best interests - long-term interests of all, including the efficient and cohesive running of the hospital, that the new structure - the new rosters be introduced as early as possible. We would, as I said before, Commissioner, propose to go into conference with you after Mary-Anne Lindsay has made her submissions, to go through in some detail - in further detail where we are at and where we should proceed.

PN115

At this point I would reserve any further submissions.

PN116

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN117

MR PARSONS: Thank you, Commissioner.

PN118

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, Ms Lindsay.

PN119

MS LINDSAY: Thank you, Commissioner. I think to adequately describe the state of proceedings at Mitcham Private at the moment would be that utter confusion reigns. At every turn there seems to have been major hurdles to overcome and the HSUA believes that these hurdles have still not been overcome and it is becoming more and more difficult to try and get some clear answers with regard to the proposed changes from Mitcham. If I could give you an example.

PN120

It came to our attention that there was a large discrepancy between the hours - the proposed cut in hours for the catering and environmental services department that Mitcham had been saying there were going to be and the actual cuts in hours that there would be. I brought this to Mr Parsons' attention earlier in the week and I got confirmation of that, that in fact, yes, they were incorrect in their original figures of 85 hours for the catering and 105 hours for the environmental services department. So from the beginning there is a large discrepancy there which needs to be clarified.

PN121

That is our major concern. There has been inadequate explanation of the decrease in duties that are supposed to go along with these cuts in hours. There has been inadequate preparation with regard to that. For example, on the two occasions that we met with management at Mitcham Private Hospital we received the documents relating to the cuts in work load on - at that meeting. We would put forward that the new rosters should definitely not be implemented because the impact of these new rosters has not been adequately researched.

PN122

Also with regard to the impact statements they were only received today. They provide an inadequate explanation of the actual impact to individuals and that we would request that that not proceed. There is further detail that I would like to go into regarding the proposed changes to create the efficiency of the work practice, where we would beg to differ on a number of - in a number of areas. So the HSUA would request that if we could perhaps go into conference to discuss the nuts and bolts of those changes.

PN123

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. The Commission will go into conference.

NO FURTHER PROCEEDINGS RECORDED

INDEX

LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs

EXHIBIT #SIAG1 DOCUMENT BENCHMARK HEALTH CARE MITCHAM PRIVATE HOSPITAL PN109
EXHIBIT #SIAG2 BULK OF DOCUMENTS HEADED MITCHAM PRIVATE HOSPITAL CATERING IMPACT STATEMENT PN109
EXHIBIT #SIAG3 INDIVIDUAL IMPACT STATEMENT PN109