AG2002/4022, Transcript of Proceedings [2002] AIRCTrans 3332 (30 August 2002)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N VT05326

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER BLAIR

AG2002/4022

APPLICATION FOR CERTIFICATION
OF AGREEMENT

Application under section 170LJ of the
Act by Turning Point Alcohol and Drug
Centre Inc and Others for certification
of the Turning Point Alcohol and Drug
Centre Inc Certified Agreement 2002

MELBOURNE

11.42 AM, WEDNESDAY, 14 AUGUST 2002

PN1

THE COMMISSIONER: Now as I understand it there was an application - I understand in this matter that there is an application for determination under section 170XF. Now, unfortunately the Commission didn't get that until this morning when I was advised by Ms Fraumano that an application actually had been made, but it appears to have been made in July and I am not quite sure why - where it went.

PN2

MS FRAUMANO: Yes, Commissioner. The application was made in July whilst we were circulating the document for the relevant signatories amongst the various parties to the agreement.

PN3

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. And you say that - in the application that the Nurses Victorian Health Services Award 2000 is the appropriate award, and the Social and Community Services Victoria Award, the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners Employees Interim Award 1996 may be appropriate for the purposes of deciding the agreement passes the no disadvantage test. Is that right?

PN4

MS FRAUMANO: Yes, Commissioner. The Turning Point is a respondent to the Nurses Victorian Health Services Award. It is not a respondent to the other awards, and in consultation with my colleagues on the left, they are the two awards that we felt had the appropriate classifications within them.

PN5

THE COMMISSIONER: Right.

PN6

MS KELLY: Commissioner, if I could interpose there and say there wasn't any consultation with HSUA in relation to the appropriate awards. In fact, that Social and Community Services Award does not have any classifications for psychologists in it, so the appropriate award there would be the Health Services Union of Australia Private Sector Interim Award 1993. Now, my colleagues from No 2 Branch in Victoria from HSUA are not here. I didn't have a copy of this document, so it may be that we will have to have further discussions about what the appropriate award is in relation to their classifications.

PN7

THE COMMISSIONER: Right.

PN8

MS KELLY: And, of course, they are not party to the Social and Community Services Award, that is an award of the Australian Services Union, not an award of the Health Services Union of Australia.

PN9

MS FRAUMANO: If the Commission pleases, this documentation was circulated to all the parties, so I don't understand why the Health Services Union didn't receive that award. The sector that - certainly it was NTEU that nominated the Royal College of General Practitioners. The sector that Turning Point is in, we felt that was relevant. However, we are happy to look at the position of psychologists if that is the concern.

PN10

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Pegg, what do you say?

PN11

MR PEGG: Commissioner, we support the application for the RACGP Interim Award to be used in relation to employees - employment, education and training and research areas.

PN12

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. Ms Woolfrey, what do you say?

PN13

MS WOOLFREY: If the Commission pleases, the ANF was provided with a copy of the determination on request because I was aware that it was happening. We agree that the Nurses Victorian Health Services Award is the appropriate award for our members. However, we did seek consultation with Ms Fraumano and Turning Point to discuss matters about that and we didn't get that consultation.

PN14

THE COMMISSIONER: Right.

PN15

MS FRAUMANO: Commissioner, could I just ask for some clarification. Turning Point is a respondent to the Nurses Award and that is not in dispute, as I understand.

PN16

THE COMMISSIONER: No, it is not, but there appeared to be some request for some consultation and that hasn't occurred. So the Commission currently has two positions before it. One where Mr Pegg supports, and I assume they all support, the certification of the agreement. However, before we certify the agreement there is some difficulty with determining the appropriate award to determine the no disadvantage test. HSUA appear to be at a disadvantage and have raised the issue about whether or not one of the awards cited is the appropriate award, saying that the HSUA Private Sector Interim Award 1993 would probably be a more appropriate award in terms of psychologists; is that right?

PN17

The ANF, although not opposing, as the Commission understands, the certification of an agreement, does say that they did request some consultation in terms of the 170XF determination, but that hasn't occurred.

PN18

MS FRAUMANO: Commissioner, I must say I don't recall any request from the ANF and I don't believe the issue was ever in contention with the ANF about the award that was being utilised.

PN19

THE COMMISSIONER: Well, I will tell you what the Commission will do. It won't certify the agreement today. It will allow for the parties to at least have some discussions in terms of the 170XF application and at least try and get an agreed position, and the Commission will, once it is advised next week that the parties are in some agreement, then it will re-list the matter in the week commencing 26 through to 30 August. Okay? The Commission stands adjourned.

ADJOURNED ACCORDINGLY [10.47am]