C0040/899, Transcript of Proceedings [2002] AIRCTrans 3640 (19 September 2002)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER DEEGAN

C No 408 of 1999
C No 364 of 1999

AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT EMPLOYMENT -
AWU SALARIED STAFF AWARD 1992

AUSTRALIAN SPORTS COMMISSION (PROFESSIONAL
COACHING STAFF) AWARD 1995

Review under Item 51 Schedule 5 Transitional
WROLA Act 1996 re CTS Case Description

C2002/4056

AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT EMPLOYMENT -
AWU SALARIED STAFF AWARD 1992

Application under section 113 of the Act
by the Community and Public Sector Union
to vary the above award re increase pay
and allowance Safety Net Review 2002

CANBERRA

10.13 AM, MONDAY, 2 SEPTEMBER 2002

Continued from 24.6.02

PN88

THE COMMISSIONER: I see there has been some changes in appearances so I will take the appearances again, please.

PN89

MS M. STEELE: I appear on behalf of the Executive Director of the Australian Sports Commission. Also appearing with me today is MS MELLINDA POLLARD.

PN90

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Ms Steele.

PN91

MS J. TRACEY: Appearing for the CPSU.

PN92

THE COMMISSIONER: Melbourne?

PN93

MS K. HUGHES: For the MEAA, Commissioner.

PN94

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. No sign of Mr Beard down there, Ms Hughes?

PN95

MS HUGHES: No, I am afraid not. I did not realise that he was going to be here, Commissioner.

PN96

THE COMMISSIONER: Supposed to be. All right. Well, let us see how far we can get today. I have had one conversation with Mr Beard about the lack of a classification structure for the gardeners in the award and I understand he has been talking to Ms Pollard about what might happen. No?

PN97

MS M. POLLARD: Not really. He has vaguely said he has some issues.

PN98

THE COMMISSIONER: You are right.

PN99

MS POLLARD: Sorry.

PN100

THE COMMISSIONER: Your are right.

PN101

MS POLLARD: He has vaguely said to me that he does have some issues but has not gone into any specifics and he said that he would mention it at the hearing today and that he would fly to Canberra the week of the 8th for some meetings to discuss his concerns.

PN102

THE COMMISSIONER: I see. All right. Well, as I understand it, the matter he raised with me is there are classifications for gardeners, as I understand it, in the award but there is no actual structure. There is no definitions so that we can work out who should be classified as what. That seems to be his main problem. Do you have - do you see it any other way, Ms Steele or Ms Pollard?

PN103

MS STEELE: Commissioner, as Ms Pollard said, we were not made aware of the issues that Mr Beard wanted to raise.

PN104

THE COMMISSIONER: I see.

PN105

MS STEELE: He seems to be there.

PN106

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Well, perhaps Mr Beard will be able to make us all aware of what his issues are.

PN107

MS STEELE: He might, yes.

PN108

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Ms Steele. Yes, Mr Beard. You have got some problems with the award as it currently stands, as I understand it?

PN109

MR G. BEARD: I do, Commissioner. I apologise for being late, but one of the hazards of travelling between Sydney and Melbourne these days. However, unfortunately, the current award I believe is deficient in a few areas but the major one is, in fact, the gardening employees which are employees that would be covered by the AWU. There is no classification structure. The award refers to the levels, levels 1 through to 10, however there is no, as I say, job description associated with those levels. So it, in fact, becomes a pointless exercise trying to complete the award without a proper definition for the classification structure.

PN110

THE COMMISSIONER: I see. This is a GSO classification?

PN111

MR BEARD: That is correct.

PN112

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. Yes, so, Ms Pollard or Ms Steele, do you have anything to say about that at the moment? Obviously we will need some sort of structure in there.

PN113

MS STEELE: Commissioner, my understanding is that there were no such descriptions in the original award.

PN114

THE COMMISSIONER: That is true.

PN115

MS STEELE: We are obviously happy to meet with Mr Beard on the week starting 9 September at some time to discuss the matter further.

PN116

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Well, look, the only thing I can say, I know that there were no classification descriptions in the award in its - well, there are none in its current form. But I can only assume that is because it has been based on something else and everybody knew at the time what it was based on. But if it is going to be a stand alone award for the Australian Sports Commission we are going to have the structure imported from wherever it is and updated. And I understand that Mr Beard will be talking to you about that. Well, if we can put that to one side, does that mean with the application by the CPSU for the redundancy provisions to be inserted and the safety nets, are they the only matters outstanding?

PN117

MS STEELE: Commissioner, I understand that we are still in disagreement with MEAA concerning one of the coaching rates.

PN118

THE COMMISSIONER: Right.

PN119

MS STEELE: That is the salary rate for the senior coaches.

PN120

THE COMMISSIONER: I see.

PN121

MS STEELE: We have agreed all the others but not that one. I do actually have a document here if it would assist the Commission.

PN122

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. If you would like to pass that up, Ms Steele. Does Ms Hughes know what this document is?

PN123

MS STEELE: No, she does not, unfortunately.

PN124

THE COMMISSIONER: She does not? All right.

PN125

MS HUGHES: Afraid not.

PN126

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. So, this is how you - - -

PN127

MS STEELE: We have - sorry. We have discussed this with Mr Ryan.

PN128

THE COMMISSIONER: From the MEAA?

PN129

MS STEELE: Yes.

PN130

MS POLLARD: Yes, correct.

PN131

THE COMMISSIONER: I see. And it shows where - how you have reached the salary?

PN132

MS STEELE: It shows how we have reached the salary. There seems to be still some disagreement with the MEAA regarding that. As you can see from the first table, it shows you the ASC proposed rates, the MEAA proposed rates, the difference, and whether we have reached agreement or not. So, it is that final.

PN133

THE COMMISSIONER: I see. And it is only that one senior coach classification that is outstanding.

PN134

MS STEELE: That is correct, yes. Now, as I say, we have presented here the way we have calculated the rates and I assume it is up to Mr Beard - sorry, Mr Ryan of the MEAA, Ms Hughes to - - -

PN135

THE COMMISSIONER: Put forward something else - - -

PN136

MS STEELE: Yes.

PN137

THE COMMISSIONER: - - - if they have some other way of reaching an - right. All right. Though there is not much in it, I notice.

PN138

MS STEELE: No.

PN139

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. And so far as the CPSU applications are concerned, will we be in a position - I do not know if there is much point in going ahead in doing them today, Ms Tracey.

PN140

MS TRACEY: No, Commissioner.

PN141

THE COMMISSIONER: To do it the day we make the award would - - -

PN142

MS TRACEY: We would actually like to stand over the redundancy matter until we have sorted out the orders for the - - -

PN143

THE COMMISSIONER: For the other one? Right.

PN144

MS TRACEY: AFA and ASDA award.

PN145

THE COMMISSIONER: You understand that, Ms Steele, that the other - - -

PN146

MS STEELE: Yes. We are happy with that.

PN147

THE COMMISSIONER: Aware of that? That is all right. All right, and we will deal with the safety net adjustments at the time when we make the award. Right, so, Ms Hughes, is there anything you wanted to add at all?

PN148

MS HUGHES: My instructions, Commissioner, are simply to point out that Mr Ryan tells me that the rates that he has come to, which are the percentages of - I gather there is the senior coach rate which is the matter outstanding - 220 per cent is what he has told me. I gather that the rates were not originally set properly being based on some sort of pre-existing internal ASC determination. That is basically the extent of my knowledge. I apologise for Mr Ryan not being available. He is in New Zealand.

PN149

THE COMMISSIONER: I see. All right. Thank you, Ms Hughes.

PN150

MS HUGHES: My instructions are very late on this.

PN151

THE COMMISSIONER: Well, I think it might be useful before we get - unless, say, you manage to reach agreement with the MEAA, then perhaps the MEAA could put something in writing as to why they think the other figure put up for the senior coaches are a more appropriate one.

PN152

MS HUGHES: Thank you, Commissioner.

PN153

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. What I would like to do was, since CPSU have asked for the redundancy matter to be stood over in any case, I will not list this for a particular date. If the parties, particularly the AWU and the Sports Commission representatives, could talk about a classification structure for the GSOs there should be one that is able to be imported reasonably easily, I would have thought, I hope, and then notify my associate as soon as possible so we can have the matter relisted. In the meantime, Ms Hughes, could you ask Mr Ryan if he cannot reach agreement on that senior coach rate, could he put something in writing?

PN154

MS HUGHES: Indeed.

PN155

THE COMMISSIONER: Right.

PN156

MS HUGHES: Thank you, Commissioner.

PN157

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Ms Tracey, is there anything else you wanted to add or cover?

PN158

MS TRACEY: No, Commissioner. Well, the CPSU supports the application to make the award because we have sorted out all the outstanding issues.

PN159

THE COMMISSIONER: And there will not be any argument, will there, from the Sport Commission about the redundancy provision going in once that provision is sorted out given the Full Bench decision?

PN160

MS STEELE: My understanding is that the Australian Sports Commission is awaiting some advice from the relevant departments on this issue.

PN161

THE COMMISSIONER: I see. All right. Well, we will have some - perhaps you could talk to the CPSU about that so we know where we stand before the matter is relisted, hopefully for its final hearing. All right, well, if there is nothing else anybody wants to raise, we will just adjourn the matter until a date to be fixed and you can continue your talking to see if we cannot finish this off. Thank you.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [10.22am]