D2002/6, Transcript of Proceedings [2002] AIRCTrans 3879 (1 October 2002)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT DUNCAN

D2002/6

APPLICATION FOR REGISTRATION AS AN
ORGANISATION OF EMPLOYERS

Application under section 188(1)(a) of the
Act by The Master Plumbers and Mechanical
Contractors Association of New South Wales
for registration as an organisation of employers

SYDNEY

9.36 AM, MONDAY, 12 AUGUST 2002

Continued from 1.7.02

Hearing Continuing

THESE PROCEEDINGS WERE CONDUCTED BY VIDEO CONFERENCE IN SYDNEY

PN37

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Are there any variations to appearances?

PN38

MR P. SHELL: I'm not appearing in lieu of Mr Huett of Civil Contractors Federation in Melbourne, your Honour.

PN39

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, Mr Shell. I don't believe there are any other variations so we'll proceed straight to the report. What's the position, Mr Elder?

PN40

MR ELDER: Your Honour, I had a meeting with the representatives of the Master Plumbers and Mechanical, whatever they call themselves of Australia last Wednesday. I did correct some of the views that they had with regard to our ambitions external to New South Wales but I think their own ambitions external to Victoria seem to be coming between us. With regards to the Civil Contractors Federation, I received a letter on 25 July dated 23 July from Mr Huett.

PN41

I have expectations that we will be able to accommodate that position after having had discussions with the general manager and certain members of the executive of the Master Plumbers, but I haven't formalised that fact to them at this stage because there is still a meeting to be held on that, but I have great hopes. The other complicating issue, of course, is that I was advised that, I think it's Mr Craig Long was going to contact me and act on behalf of Mr Huett but I now understand why he didn't. Thank you.

PN42

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Before I come to the others, what do you see as the next step to be taken? Do you want an adjournment to enable these negotiations?

PN43

MR ELDER: Well, I think we will be able to accommodate the position of the Civil Contractors. I, certainly as I said, had discussions with Mr Herbert. He said he was going to seek some advice after that. I have read his objections put on behalf of that organisation by Blake Dawson Waldron and I think if they were the issues that were being challenged, we could probably overcome them but I think there are some deeper areas of concern there. I probably will be seeking leave to make certain amendments to my rules before you, your Honour, after having, and I know that you've received communications, I think, from Mrs Buchanan.

PN44

Since that time, I have had a discussion with Mr Kellett of the registry and gone through in great detail with him the type of areas that he believes we ought to address. I think most of them are probably more cosmetic and probably just tidying up, a bit of tightening up some of the provisions and probably making, if it's the correct word to use a little bit more generic rather than referring for example, as they currently do to the State Industrial Relations Act. So that's about where I'm up to, your Honour.

PN45

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Do you want me to set the matter down with directions for what I call pleadings and witness statements or do you want me to adjourn for a further period?

PN46

MR ELDER: I think probably the pleadings may be the better way to go, your Honour. I'm not too sure until I hear from Ms McKenzie -

PN47

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That's right. Well, I have to hear from the others as well but I'm just trying to get your position out.

PN48

MR ELDER: Well, I certainly don't see any reason to have further discussions unless there's a different change in the position of the people from the Master Plumbers in Victoria. Thank you, your Honour.

PN49

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I see. Ms McKenzie?

PN50

MS McKENZIE: Yes, thank you, your Honour. As Mr Elder said, a meeting did take place last Wednesday pursuant to your directions that there be some discussions with a view to trying to remove or at least narrow the scope of the objection. My instructions are that whilst that meeting was useful and provided some information, it hasn't resulted in there being any basis upon which my client could remove, withdraw its objection so the objection remains and I think it's also correct to say that there's been no basis upon which any of those objections could be narrowed or some removed but others remain so at the moment the objections remain on the grounds contained in our notice of objection.

PN51

That being the case, as it's Mr Elder's association's application, we're not in a position to say we would object to the matters being set down. If that's his assessment of the matter then we would be content with that obviously, your Honour.

PN52

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, Ms McKenzie. Mr Shell, what's the position of your member, your organisation?

PN53

MR SHELL: Sorry, sir, I've been given this matter at late notice this morning. I don't have the file with me. I understand as Mr Elder says, there was a letter sent by our national office to Mr Elder outlining specific areas of concern that if were able to be addressed would remove our objection. I believe that's still the case. I'm very heartened to hear Mr Elder's submissions along the lines that he feels that his executive will probably be able to agree to our areas of concern.

PN54

That being the case, if we can actually get together and have a talk after he receives instructions, I feel that we'll probably be able to resolve our areas of concern. That would leave us in the situation where we could remove our objection. We are able to live at the present time quite happily alongside other plumbing type organisations as long as our traditional boundaries can be respected. That's our submission at this stage, your Honour.

PN55

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Very well, thanks, Mr Shell. What I'll do is, we'll go off record to work out a program for pleadings and witness statements and we'll take care in that program to leave plenty of time for any discussions that may still be ongoing, Mr Elder.

PN56

MR ELDER: Thank you.

OFF THE RECORD [9.44am]

RESUMES [9.49am]

PN57

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: In the light of the situation as outlined by Mr Elder and the other participants in these proceedings, I adjourn this matter for further report until Tuesday, 1 October next at 9.30am by video link between Sydney and Melbourne. I adjourn this matter accordingly.

ADJOURNED UNTIL TUESDAY, 1 OCTOBER 2002 [9.50am]