C0100/598, Transcript of Proceedings [2002] AIRCTrans 4169 (24 October 2002)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N VT447

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER HINGLEY

C No 01005 of 1998

BARKUMA INCORPORATED AWARD (1996)

Review under Item 51, Schedule 5,
Transitional WROLA Act 1996
re CTS Case Description

MELBOURNE

3.38 PM, THURSDAY, 20 DECEMBER 2001

THIS HEARING WAS CONDUCTED BY VIDEO CONFERENCE
AND RECORDED IN MELBOURNE

PN1

EQUIPMENT MALFUNCTION

PN2

MR EVANS: ..... to hand to you a document for you to have today. Ian and I have done a significant amount of amount of work on the Barkuma Award. I have completed this at about 20 past 2 and I didn't get a chance to e-mail it to Maria but I do actually have a hard copy here which I will e-mail to you in the morning.

PN3

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. You were also going to give me a table of changes with it.

PN4

MR EVANS: I haven't done that.

PN5

THE COMMISSIONER: Right.

PN6

MR EVANS: I haven't done - I have done it in the other award that I will back with you before 3.30 and that package that I believe you may have had from us is the package that I was hoping to present to you with Barkuma.

PN7

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN8

MR EVANS: Now - so we will have to do a translation schedule for that but what we will do is certainly e-mail to you tomorrow a covering letter which I have half finished plus this document here so you have that tomorrow morning. Now, in that covering letter and with this document, both Ian and I - it is tabled as a consent position.

PN9

THE COMMISSIONER: Right.

PN10

MR EVANS: However there are two - three aspects that we just need to proof read. One, Ian hasn't had a chance to see this document in proof form so - - -

PN11

THE COMMISSIONER: Right.

PN12

MR EVANS: - - - he - I am reserving his rights for him, a courtesy so he could do that. Secondly, Ian and I were just fine tuning clause 34 for carers leave and clause 35 on parental leave just because of the definitions of partner, spouse and household and while that approach is consistent with things that you have seen from us before in terms of the Nurses Award, it is an approach which the ASU hasn't quite seen to the same effect so Ian just wanted to reserve his rights to fine tune that and then we would come to you on that.

PN13

THE COMMISSIONER: Right.

PN14

MR EVANS: And the third issue, Commissioner, is in respect of the wage and salary structure. The wage and salary structure has basically three components for various skills, one is clerks, one is people who look after the - professional people and then there is the carers. The clerks is clearly tested. It is a State structure, it is clearly tested under the URA SEP process and there is no problem with that, both Ian and my organisation did that together in '92/3. We don't have an issue with that one.

PN15

In terms of the professionals providers, we believe that is out of the SETS award which has also been tested and we don't believe there will be an issue there. We do have a small concern though, Commissioner, about the carers. We are not quite clear because both Ian and I are new to this award and we are just doing our homework to see where those carer rates of pay and titles came from and so in the letter that I am sending you will be our rights reserved on that and I may ask you whether you would do the same approach on that as we are asking to look at the HSUA matter where we could well be in a position to say the body of the award is consent as agreed subject to the parental leave, carers leave issue from Ian and we may well be in a position to ask you to approve that but allow the parties to reserve their rights to put back to you on that classification structure for the carers.

PN16

So I think that giving us just a little bit of time to look at it, we may well be in a position in the New Year to improve this award in approach similar that we are going to put to you at 3.30 on the HSUA award.

PN17

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. I am just wondering, would it be more convenient to you for me not to list it again but simply write written joint submissions and then you can address the separate issues?

PN18

MR EVANS: Look, Commissioner, I think that would be quite reasonable. I think, subject to some time for Ian and I, we will have everything agreed I believe - - -

PN19

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN20

MR EVANS: - - - except for probably the rates of pay for those carers. I think that might just take us a bit more time to get but I think we could have to you a document shortly on that. In fact, as I said, my letter was half finished and if I had more time, Ian would have seen it and we could have had it to you.

PN21

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Well, if you reduce your submissions to writing I won't try and set a date and then we can worry about the outstanding matter once I have issued an interim decision.

PN22

MR EVANS: Yes.

PN23

THE COMMISSIONER: I think that is the best way to go with it but I rely - I mean I am not talking about written submissions in February or anything like that. I am talking about fairly promptly if you can do it.

PN24

MR EVANS: Well, I am going on leave tomorrow night for five weeks.

PN25

THE COMMISSIONER: Oh dear.

PN26

MR EVANS: But what I will do is, as I said, I have half finished a letter to you and what I will do I will get that e-mailed to you either tonight or in the morning and I am quite happy, if Ian wants to modify that and do it as a position from us in my absence because Ian and I are very, very similar. The only issue really is that rates of pay issue, everything else I think - - -

PN27

THE COMMISSIONER: Okay. Well he can add his covering letter to it or he can add to the letter.

PN28

MR EVANS: Yes.

PN29

THE COMMISSIONER: That is fine with me. Let us do it that way.

PN30

MR EVANS: Thank you.

PN31

THE COMMISSIONER: You won't forget the table as well, will you, the table of changes?

PN32

MR EVANS: The table will take a bit more time. What I will do I will ask Ian to do that while I am away.

PN33

THE COMMISSIONER: All right then. Are you comfortable with all that Mr Hird?

PN34

MR HIRD: Yes, I am. I am on leave until 14 January so you get it some time after that. I mean I can't guarantee that. I have got a full morning tomorrow - a full day tomorrow, it is the last day of work, you know how things are.

PN35

THE COMMISSIONER: Well, you could put your holidays off.

PN36

MR HIRD: Not bloody likely.

PN37

THE COMMISSIONER: All right then. Well, I am in your hands but don't let me down.

PN38

MR EVANS: It would be relatively soon, sir.

PN39

THE COMMISSIONER: All right then. Thank you very much.

PN40

MR EVANS: Thank you and I will see you back at 3.30 on the HSUA matter.

PN41

THE COMMISSIONER: Indeed.

PN42

MR EVANS: Just say for this other matter that - I don't know when it is going to happen but it should be soon. Thank you, Commissioner.

PN43

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [3.45pm]