C2003/957, Transcript of Proceedings [2003] AIRCTrans 1403 (15 April 2003)

AUSCRIPT PTY LTD
ABN 76 082 664 220

Level 4, 179 Queen St MELBOURNE Vic 3000
(GPO Box 1114 MELBOURNE Vic 3001)
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

O/N VT2192
AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER MANSFIELD

C2003/957

WESTGATE LOGISTICS PTY LTD

and

TRANSPORT WORKERS UNION OF
AUSTRALIA

Notification pursuant to section 99 of the Act
of a dispute re the lodgment of BP2003/706 on
5 February 2003

MELBOURNE

9.58 AM, TUESDAY, 1 APRIL 2003

Continued from 13.2.03

PN28

THE COMMISSIONER: This is a report back from an earlier hearing. There is no change in appearances as I recall. No.

PN29

MR SMITH: Only one less, Commissioner, on the employer side.

PN30

THE COMMISSIONER: One less. Good. Thanks, Mr Smith.

PN31

MR SMITH: That is efficiency for you.

PN32

THE COMMISSIONER: That is right, yes, it is pressure on the employers obviously. Mr Ryan, this was your original notification. Perhaps you would give us a report on developments, please.

PN33

MR RYAN: It was and thank you, Commissioner. You may recall that I wrote to you on 4 March indicating that we had met with TWU officials, including Mr Smith, and both sides wish to further pursue those discussions and the matter that was listed for 5 March was postponed until today. There has been subsequent meetings and discussions, Commissioner. In fact we met with the union in mid-March and followed that up with a letter indicating that Westgate is prepared to move to an EBA based around the Distribution Facilities Award for its warehouse operations, which was very much the general issue, I think, from the union's perspective, and Mr Smith may want to say something on the specifics as well.

PN34

We have had some - and the letter also talked about issues happening at G9, which is one of the larger Westgate sites, which is going to have the effect of driving this particular exercise. We got a letter back from the federal office of the union yesterday indicating that - accepting our confirmation of moving to the Distribution Facilities Award and I am just paraphrasing the contents of the letter. I don't have copies to table and it is probably not necessary to table them in any case. The fact that the letter - or our undertakings represented an important step in ensuring stability within the company's warehouse operations - some disagreement over the percentage increase in wages that we have suggested and the final paragraph says:

PN35

We look forward to continuing these discussions with you.

PN36

So it is our plan to continue the discussions both at the federal and state level, because Mr Smith has been present at those discussions. We are approaching this from a Westgate wide perspective and this initial issue resolved around two particular sites that were formerly Brimac sites. One has approximately 20 employees, one has approximately 5 or 6 employees. They are in a sense the tail on the end of the dog. The G9 site that I mentioned earlier has about 250 employees. We want to wrap all of this up in one enterprise agreement that applies across the board.

PN37

We have given an undertaking to the union to do that as quickly as we can. There is always going to be some argument. We have put 8 per cent on the table which includes - over two years which includes some absorption of a reclassification and the union have come back and said that they don't necessarily agree that the reclassifications that may come out of it should be fully absorbable into the 8 per cent. So there is a bit of negotiation to continue there. But we would be keen to meet again with the union to push this down the track.

PN38

We have an EBA that expires at the end of August. As I said, we are keen if this can be tidied up by the end of May or the end of June, we are happy to do so and then bring an agreement to you for certification to replace the existing agreement if we can tidy it up beforehand. That is probably all I want to say at this stage unless you have any questions, Commissioner.

PN39

THE COMMISSIONER: No, Mr Ryan, that is fine, thank you very much. Mr Smith.

PN40

MR SMITH: Yes, look, I have been involved in those discussions but we are operating on two levels. One is the future enterprise agreement, and there is still some discussions to go there. What brought us here in the first place though was threatened, in terms of the company's position, immediate industrial action surrounding one location with a secondary one likely at Dandenong that we would argue that aren't covered by the current agreement. Now, the company - - -

PN41

THE COMMISSIONER: This is over the hazardous goods allowance, Mr Smith, as I recall?

PN42

MR SMITH: Correct.

PN43

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN44

MR SMITH: And that we would argue are not covered by the current agreement and in fact come under the terms of the Distribution Facilities Award as opposed to the '98 award. Now, that was an argument that Mr Ryan didn't accept the other - - -

PN45

THE COMMISSIONER: Having heard that, Mr Smith, is it the intention that the foreshadowed negotiations on a new EBA will embrace those two particular sites you are referring to?

PN46

MR SMITH: That is the intention of the parties, but what we were looking for - and this goes back to last year - was an interim agreement pending a more uniform one that would apply from the common date of expiry of the current agreement that is underpinned by the '98 award. So I mean our argument has been about the interim.

PN47

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN48

MR SMITH: Not about where we go after 1 September.

PN49

THE COMMISSIONER: But having now heard the proposal from the company, which has, no doubt, been influenced very much by representations from the union, that there will be negotiations on a new EBA, is that process now going to be - I am not saying it is going to be ideal but is that process going to be satisfactory to address the issue that first brought this matter to the Commission?

PN50

MR SMITH: At this stage I would think not because we have not agreed. Well, the company have made offers about money. Didn't I turn it off, I apologise, Commissioner.

PN51

THE COMMISSIONER: Mine rang yesterday, Mr Smith, so I can't be too concerned about that. Yes, thanks for turning it off.

PN52

MR RYAN: Could the transcript reflect ring-ring, ring-ring, Mr Smith's phone went off.

PN53

MR SMITH: That will be on transcript.

PN54

THE COMMISSIONER: Other Commissioners I might mention, Mr Smith, have demanded that phones be brought forward and their batteries be taken out in that situation.

PN55

MR SMITH: That is the first time that that has ever happened with me, Commissioner.

PN56

THE COMMISSIONER: Well, I will ask you to put $10 into the poor box as you are leaving.

PN57

MR SMITH: Look, I have to say at this stage, no, it hasn't, because we haven't resolved the classifications and the amounts of money that will go with them. I mean if we had maybe we would have been able to go back to those employees and say, look, if you wait this is going to be the outcome, but those issues are still to be resolved. So we are operating on these two levels.

PN58

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN59

MR SMITH: That while the company is seeking to fix it up by dealing with the statewide level, for want of a better word, it hasn't resolved what pressure there is on Mr Butera to resolve it at - those issues at a local level.

PN60

THE COMMISSIONER: As I recall, Mr Smith, the suggestion from the company was that much of the pressure was coming from a relatively small workplace in terms of numbers of employees who were concerned that they were not being paid a hazardous goods allowance, and the nature of the hazardous goods in that particular location, I think, involved paint and one or two other substances of a similar kind. I would have to say just frankly that I don't consider that working in and around containers of paint to be terribly hazardous.

PN61

MR SMITH: You have to - on a truck carrying paint it carries a hazardous goods sign, Commissioner.

PN62

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN63

MR SMITH: So I would have thought that - I mean if under the laws of the land a truck has got to carry hazardous goods signs, then they are hazardous goods.

PN64

THE COMMISSIONER: Does that mean though - - -

PN65

MR SMITH: But I mean - can I say about the company though, just before you - I mean they got this document last year and other than basically telling Mr Butera where to go there was no serious attempt by them to move it, and we had some difficulties and I am reluctant to say things on transcript - we had some difficulties and we made them clear to you when we were off the record last time. We had some difficulty in the sense that we did not want to expose the company or arguments that the union was running at the time to deal with another party.

PN66

We didn't want to do anything that would have exposed any of those arguments and that is why we waited until about September-October last year before we served a formal document on the company. I mean they didn't even sit down and say, well, look, your $40 allowance is a crock but we can resolve these other issues or we are prepared to talk about these other issues. They just basically told Mr Butera where to go and there has been no serious attempt by them to resolve it because they believe that those sites are covered by an existing agreement. We do not believe that they are, so in that sense we are at loggerheads over that issue. mean there is sometimes more ways of skinning a cat.

PN67

THE COMMISSIONER: Well, Mr Smith, would it be useful if we went off the record, do you think, to have a discussion about this matter? It seems as though from the union's side at least there is still concern about the issue that brought on the original notification and the report from Mr Ryan about the developments with the EBA negotiations hasn't satisfied the difficulties at the workplace. So if the parties are agreeable we might just go off the record for a moment and have a talk about that.

PN68

MR SMITH: I wouldn't object to that, Commissioner.

PN69

MR RYAN: No concern with that.

PN70

THE COMMISSIONER: We will go off the record and I expect we will be about 45 minutes.

OFF THE RECORD

NO FURTHER PROCEEDINGS RECORDED