D2001/9, Transcript of Proceedings [2003] AIRCTrans 1457 (22 April 2003)

AUSCRIPT PTY LTD
ABN 76 082 664 220

Level 4, 179 Queen St MELBOURNE Vic 3000
(GPO Box 1114 MELBOURNE Vic 3001)
DX 305 Melbourne Tel:[phone] Fax:[phone]

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N VT2242

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT WILLIAMS

D2001/9

APPLICATION UNDER SECTION 188(1)(b)
FILED BY VISITNG MEDCIAL OFFICERS
ASSOCIATION FOR REGISTRATION AS AN
ASSOCIATION OF EMPLOYEES

OBJECTIONS THERETO

MELBOURNE

10.40 AM, FRIDAY, 4 APRIL 2003

Continued from 20.8.02

THE FOLLOWING MATTER WAS HEARD VIA VIDEO LINK-UP AND RECORDED IN MELBOURNE

PN495

MR J. WILSON: I appear for the applicant.

PN496

MR E. JANSEN: I appear for the Australian Medical Association Limited.

PN497

MR R. HARRIS: I seek leave to appear on behalf of the Australian Capital Territory and the ACT Health and Community Care Service.

PN498

MR J. PAYNE: I seek leave to appear on behalf of ASMOV.

PN499

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, and we are just checking, but is there anyone there in Sydney?

PN500

THE COURT: Yes, there is. There is actually nobody who is attending the hearing. I am just a Registry officer.

PN501

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you for that. It does appear we have no appearance in Sydney. Well, Mr Wilson, what is the position with the matter? As I apprehend it, material has been filed on behalf of the AMA, ASMOV and the ACT and the ACT Health and Community Care Service and some material has been filed on behalf of the applicant body, but there are still some outstanding documents to be filed.

PN502

MR WILSON: The two statements to be filed, witness statements of Dr Nada Chandran and Dr Paul Burke, those statements are in final draft. To be honest, time just needs to be found for those doctors to meet with me. I have had, for example, with Dr Chandran, four appointments had to be cancelled this week simply because he was called in to do operations, so I anticipate that those statements, both will be with you and the objectors by next week.

PN503

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: In those circumstances, assuming that happens, what do you say should now be done with this matter? Are you seeking for it to be listed at this stage?

PN504

MR WILSON: Well, with respect, your Honour, I think you might want to hear from the other parties as to whether they wish to make any reply to the material that we have put on and will be putting on. I note in your directions of 13 December last year, because the timetable at this stage has gone out of whack, you did direct that on or before five pm on Friday, 20 March, any outstanding objector was to file documents in reply, so they may need to talk to you about that.

PN505

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr Jansen, what is the AMAs position?

PN506

MR JANSEN: Your Honour, we received the documents from the VMOA only a couple of days ago and we would need the time to review them and to determine what, if any, in nature of material we would need to file in reply, so we would be requesting some four weeks or so to do that in order to enable us to properly look at the material and prepare a response.

PN507

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, thank you. Mr Payne.

PN508

MR PAYNE: Your Honour, we are in a similar position. We have only received the material on Wednesday and as Mr Wilson has said, there is further material to come in and we would also need an opportunity to consider that material and to obtain some instructions. Given the time lines that have occurred to date and given the potential for deponents to be medical practitioners, we would also, like Mr Jansen, seek four weeks from the date of receiving the last of the material.

PN509

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr Harris.

PN510

MR HARRIS: Thank you, your Honour. The ACT is again in a similar position. The applicant was to lodge its material by last Friday and the objectors were to file their material this morning before this directions hearing. The ACT Government Solicitor received the three statements on Wednesday and we understand that there are a further two statements and that they are going to be similarly comprehensive in the nature of the three statements that have been filed to date.

PN511

In those circumstances, the ACT would submit that where we don't know the ultimate reply we will need to respond to, the ACT will need a period of at least some four weeks. The other factor to take into account in the timetabling is the intervention of Easter which falls on 18 April and the public holiday period which we would ask the Commission to take into account in the future timetabling.

PN512

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you. Mr Wilson, do you wish to say anything in respect to what has been said?

PN513

MR WILSON: Yes, I would throw one more matter into the mix. Your Honour, I note that the Australian Medical Association did not file any witness statements or documents upon which it intends to rely in support of its objection pursuant to direction one of your directions of 13 December 2002. Now, I am saying that is no actual or implied criticism of Mr Jansen or anyone else, but that being the case, it seems to me that the documents or the statements that Mr Jansen files apparently by way of reply to the documents that my client has filed may after considering them need to have a reply from my client.

PN514

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, what I would propose, Mr Wilson, if I made directions for reply material to be filed by a certain time, I would then fix another date for directions shortly thereafter, at which time you could then seek to have another direction made about any further material you wish to put in. Of course, there would have to be, as you would appreciate, some end to the exchange of material, but I do understand what you are saying in respect to that and there may be some way that can be dealt with at that time and at the same time, then, dates be fixed for hearing.

PN515

MR WILSON: Or, indeed, your Honour, as you say, between the time the matter is listed and the time we get Mr Jansen's documents, we may even be able to get something in and just move from the hearing.

PN516

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is right, but what I had in mind was to make a direction to require you to file your two further statements that you are still waiting to get finalised by Monday, 14 April, which is just over two weeks away, to then have until Friday, 9 May, for the objectors to file any material in reply and I would list the matter for directions and the probable fixing of dates on Thursday, 15 May. Would that be suitable?

PN517

MR WILSON: It is suitable for me, your Honour.

PN518

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Does anyone else wish to comment on that proposal?

PN519

MR PAYNE: No, your Honour, Brisbane.

PN520

MR JANSEN: No, your Honour.

PN521

MR HARRIS: No, your Honour.

PN522

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you. Well, formal directions will issue to give effect to what I have just indicated as soon as possible. The matter will be adjourned until 10.30 on 15 May, as I say, for directions and probable programming for hearing.

PN523

MR PAYNE: Your Honour, John Payne from Brisbane.

PN524

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, Mr Payne.

PN525

MR PAYNE: If I can just in advance advise the Commission that our deponent, Mr Somerville, will be absent from Australia for the whole of June.

PN526

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, we will bear that in mind when we are fixing dates.

PN527

MR PAYNE: Thank you, your Honour.

PN528

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is there anything else for the record?

PN529

MR WILSON: John Wilson, your Honour. No, thank you.

PN530

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: If that is the case, the matter is adjourned on that basis.

ADJOURNED UNTIL THURSDAY, 15 MAY 2003 [10.51am]