AG2003/2282, Transcript of Proceedings [2003] AIRCTrans 1723 (7 May 2003)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER RICHARDS

AG2003/2282

APPLICATION FOR CERTIFICATION OF AGREEMENT

Application under section 170LK of the Act
by Defence Force Credit Union Limited re the
Defcredit Enterprise Development Agreement 2003-2006

BRISBANE

12.32 PM, THURSDAY, 24 APRIL 2003

PN1

THE COMMISSIONER: Perhaps if I could take some appearances. If we could start with Melbourne first.

PN2

MR A. TURNBULL: I'm a consultant and representing the staff consultant committee of Defcredit, if the Commission pleases.

PN3

MR D. BRENNAN: I appear on behalf of Defcredit.

PN4

THE COMMISSIONER: Is there anyone else there that wishes to make an appearance or not?

PN5

MR TURNBULL: No, thank you, sir.

PN6

THE COMMISSIONER: Good. Thank you, Mr Turnbull. And I have in Darwin if she can hear me - - -

PN7

MS K. LILLIEBRIDGE: Yes, I can.

PN8

THE COMMISSIONER: Ms Lilliebridge, can I just register your appearance from Darwin as well. I'm sorry, if I had known I might have suggested that we could have put to you on video on Darwin in the Darwin Registry, couldn't we?

PN9

MS LILLIEBRIDGE: That's fine. I've got no problems with hearing at the moment. I'm Karen Lilliebridge representing the staff consultative committee from Darwin.

PN10

THE COMMISSIONER: Good. Thanks very much. So essentially I have two representatives - well, I have two representatives of the staff consultative committee. Is that correct? And Ms Brennan representing Defcredit per se.

PN11

MR TURNBULL: That's correct.

PN12

THE COMMISSIONER: Good, thank you. Perhaps, Ms Brennan, you might take me to the agreement and why I should be satisfied it's met the statutory tests.

PN13

MR TURNBULL: Sir, it's my application, and - - -

PN14

THE COMMISSIONER: Sorry, Mr Turnbull.

PN15

MR TURNBULL: Yes. And I lodged it on behalf of the stat dec. Ms Brennan I understand has just come in as a friend of Defcredit and wasn't directly involved in any part of the negotiations. She's purely here to help in the certification process.

PN16

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. I won't put the spotlight too severely on her, then.

PN17

MR TURNBULL: No.

PN18

MS BRENNAN: Thanks, Commissioner.

PN19

THE COMMISSIONER: Thanks, Mr Turnbull.

PN20

MR TURNBULL: Sir, this is the third certified agreement that Defcredit have negotiated with their staff, and I have been involved with the staff consultative committee on each occasion. They're three year agreements. Just by way of background, Defcredit stands for the Defence Force Credit Union. It is a credit union with some 50 branches. All of the branches except one are located on military establishments and the only exception is in Townsville where it's located in a shopping centre because of the large defence force staff present there.

PN21

Previously in the first two agreements they have varied the certified agreement, but if you're familiar with the Credit Union Award, the Credit Union Award also has state provision in it itself and it was decided by both the staff and the company that they would seek to merge both documents, and the reason for that was ease of use. It's available on the staff link which is an internal intraweb e-mail link so that staff throughout the branches and the operations of the business can actually electronically access the certified agreement.

PN22

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Turnbull, this is a comprehensive agreement, isn't it?

PN23

MR TURNBULL: That's correct.

PN24

THE COMMISSIONER: It fully displaces the award and is read as a stand-alone document.

PN25

MR TURNBULL: That's correct, yes.

PN26

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN27

MR TURNBULL: Sir, do you want me to take you to any other parts of the certified agreement or to the statutory declarations?

PN28

THE COMMISSIONER: Well, I'm most interested to know that the statutory tests in respect of 170LK were satisfied and that the no-disadvantage test in particular has been satisfied. I take it from the statutory declarations that they have been. What I would be most interested in hearing as a representative of the staff consultative committee is that, for example, Section 170LK(4) was complied with. I know your statutory declarations say that. I'd like to just be able to hear it from the consultative committee itself, and also if you could just take me to why you're satisfied the no-disadvantage test has been satisfied.

PN29

MR TURNBULL: Okay, sir. With respect to the requirements within the Act, all the staff were communicated with and that has been the process; to see whether or not they would like to be represented by the union. That was done in a formal letter that has been forwarded to staff signed by both the general manager of the credit union and by Elizabeth Hope and through the consultative committee, and I'll read the appropriate section. It says:

PN30

If any individual employee is a member of the union then that employee may request that the union represent them in any negotiations relating to the proposed agreement.

PN31

To the best of my knowledge and to the knowledge of the staff, no one is aware of any union members within the organisation.

PN32

THE COMMISSIONER: In any event, no request was made by a union.

PN33

MR TURNBULL: That's correct. Nor a member of the staff.

PN34

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. That's consistent with the statutory declaration. That's all I need in that regard, Mr Turnbull. Thank you. Perhaps if you could just take me briefly to the no-disadvantage test.

PN35

MR TURNBULL: What the company has done through the staff consultative committee is to look at changes progressively over the previous two agreements which have been incorporated into the statutory declaration as to the variants from the awards, and if you like I can take you to those, but they have been costed I guess by the staff's consultative committee. We've had a look at what impact it would have on the business, what impact it would have on the staff and it is felt by the staff consultative committee that the variations as have been agreed through the three agreements have been acceptable as a consequent of wage increases.

PN36

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Turnbull.

PN37

MR TURNBULL: And also some of the issues have been an increase in the bereavement benefit available because the nature of Defcredit employees; many of the partners of many of the staff are partners of defence force personnel and they have families in other states so Defcredit recognises that there would be a longer period of time possibly required to attend funerals and the like. We've incorporated into the document the test case provision for the overtime provision for the reasonable hours test case. That's been incorporated into this document, being that it does displace the Credit Union Award. We thought apart from that the company were keen to put it in because it sees itself as a good employer.

PN38

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Turnbull. I notice that one of the peculiarities of this agreement - rather the peculiarity of this agreement is that it covers predominantly women. I think if I remember some 168 out of 180 employees. Is that correct?

PN39

MR TURNBULL: That's correct.

PN40

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN41

MR TURNBULL: I guess the nature of the credit union industry per se is that predominantly it's staff by female employees, and I can only surmise that this Defcredit because many of the staff are partners of defence force personnel, Defcredit's policy is that they try and accommodate people. If their partner has moved from one defence establishment to another, it's not always possible to move staff, but they don't lose continuity of service if, for example, someone is unable to be located in a new outlet for some 12 months or 18 months. The company allows for that. And it could well be that it suits female work force in that respect.

PN42

THE COMMISSIONER: Good. Were there any particular - this is merely out of my own curiosity. Were there any particular elements of the agreement that were particularised for purposes of the demographic that it covers?

PN43

MR TURNBULL: Only with respect to annual leave. There was an issue from staff that - and supported by the company, that, given the broad spread of the 50 branches, with respect to annual leave, people were applying for annual leave and it was taking some time for them to hear that their leave had either been accepted or rejected, so under the annual leave provision we put in place a table with time limits depending on the period of leave sought. There are provisions that go to support for additional study for people who want to take additional study. But in particular, no, it's not been issue that's been raised by the staff during my association, which has now been some seven years.

PN44

THE COMMISSIONER: Okay. No, that's all right. It was just an idle curiosity on my part; that's all, and it doesn't go to anything in the statutory tests. I haven't - Ms Lilliebridge, if you can hear me, do you have anything you would like to say about the agreement or the manner in which it was entered into with employees?

PN45

MS LILLIEBRIDGE: No, other than just to say that all of the committee actually did contact their areas before the discussions that we had so that most staff or all staff were aware of what was happening with the agreement and then once that was actually posted into the intranet then we advised all the staff that it was available for them to read and also made ourselves available to explain anything that needed to be explained to them.

PN46

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you, Ms Lilliebridge. Is there anything else any of the parties would like to bring to my attention about this agreement?

PN47

MR TURNBULL: Not from the staff consultative committee's point of view, sir.

PN48

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. Look, on the basis of the information that's available to me in the file, the statutory declarations, the agreement itself and the submissions that have been put to me by the parties this afternoon, I indicate that I will certify this agreement effective as of today's date. Its date of expiry just currently eludes me. Mr Turnbull, can you assist me? I think it's three years from the date of my certification, if I remember, but - - -

PN49

MR TURNBULL: That's correct.

PN50

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. That's right.

PN51

MR TURNBULL: That is correct, sir.

PN52

THE COMMISSIONER: So that will certainly now be the case. The order and the decision in this respect will issue shortly. Hopefully later today they will be faxed to you if events don't conspire otherwise. In any event, they will be dispatched to you quickly. In that respect, can I therefore say - it simply remains for me to say thank you to the parties for appearing today. We have, just for the record, the representatives of the consultative committee principally from Melbourne and another representative of the consultative committee from Darwin for today's proceedings, the former by video, the latter by telephone, and can I thank you for your participation and we'll expedite the administrative process pertaining to this application as quickly as we can. So thank you very much and good afternoon. We're adjourned.

PN53

MR TURNBULL: Thanks very much, sir.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [12.44pm]