C2002/6111, Transcript of Proceedings [2003] AIRCTrans 310 (3 February 2003)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER RAFFAELLI

C2002/6111

THE AUSTRALIAN LICENSED AIRCRAFT
ENGINEERS ASSOCIATION

and

QANTAS AIRWAYS LIMITED

Application under section 170LW of the Act
for settlement of dispute (certification of
Licensed Aircraft Engineers (Qantas Airways
Limited) Enterprise Agreement IV (1998-2001))

SYDNEY

3.02 PM, WEDNESDAY, 15 JANUARY 2003

PN1

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, could I have the appearances please.

PN2

MR G. NORRIS; If it please the Commission I appear for and on behalf of the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association and with me I have, MR SHANE KENNY, Vice President of the Association and MR FERGUS HAINES, a trustee of the association who are members of the LAME Pay Agreement Translation Committee.

PN3

MR D. MILLS: May it please the Commission I have with me, MR A. CAMFIELD, who is the Human Resources Manager for Qantas Line Maintenance Operations. He is also a willing participant on the LAME Pay Agreement Translation Committee.

PN4

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, thank you. Yes, Mr Norris?

PN5

MR NORRIS: Commissioner, what we are proposing to day is that we may just have some papers and agreements marked. But the matter before you, Commissioner, will require some detailed understanding of how these pay arrangements and the transition from the old award system of pay to the Enterprise Agreement pay arrangements came about and how they actually work. To that extent to assist the parties it would be a lot easier to deal with this in conference.

PN6

Commissioner, I understand in the Commissions bench file you may already have the LAME Enterprise Agreement V.

PN7

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN8

MR NORRIS: That the Licensed Aircraft Engineers (Qantas Airways Limited) Enterprise Agreement IV.

PN9

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN10

MR NORRIS: Commissioner, an additional agreement that is relevant to this matter is what is referred to as the LAME Pay Agreement 1997. Commissioner, in addition we tender two witness statements. One of those being a witness statement of Paul John Gallon.

PN11

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Gallon, yes, I will mark that exhibit ALAEA1.

EXHIBIT #ALAEA1 WITNESS STATEMENT OF PAUL JOHN GALLON

PN12

MR NORRIS: The witness statement of Keith Michael Moses.

PN13

THE COMMISSIONER: That will be ALAEA2.

EXHIBIT #ALAEA2 WITNESS STATEMENT OF KEITH MICHAEL MOSES

PN14

MR NORRIS: Commissioner, we tender the witness statements on the basis that if we had to proceed further the parties for the sake of speed I suppose that they are out there and up for scrutiny. However today, Commissioner, we wouldn't be proposing to bring that evidence as such or swear that evidence for the sake of progressing the matter through conference. We suggest that we adjourn into the conference as soon as possible.

PN15

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. Mr Mills?

PN16

MR MILLS: In relation to the ALAEA seeking to have the witness statements of Mr Gallon and Mr Moses tendered for these purposes, the company doesn't object to that tender on the understanding that's been outlined by Mr Norris that the ALAEA will not be seeking to rely on those witness statements today. Clearly I haven't seen them at all so we would be at a disadvantage if we were to proceed down that track but I don't think we are. The company also welcomes the opportunity for the Commission to participate in this matter through conference. The LAME Pay Agreement or Licensed Engineer Pay Agreement is somewhat complex in a sense for a lay person and you, Commissioner, you might pick it up quickly. The rest of us who have been struggling with it for the last five years, it will be an interesting exercise in explaining it.

PN17

If I could just very quickly probably just say, the LAME Payment Agreement came in in August 1997. It was a reasonably significant difference to the manner in which employees received remuneration and it was done through an effective vote of all members of the ALAEA who would be bound by that agreement. It is a document I understand you have a copy of it, certified by the Commission, and it's an agreement that continues to exist to which the parties continue to be bound by to this day.

PN18

Other than that I don't think there's any need for us to put any of our arguments at this stage on the record. We think it's appropriate to take the opportunity to go into conference. We would just like to say that we will be happy to go back on the record if need be once the conference is completed.

PN19

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, thank you. We will adjourn into conference.

NO FURTHER PROCEEDINGS RECORDED [3.07pm]

INDEX

LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs

EXHIBIT #ALAEA1 WITNESS STATEMENT OF PAUL JOHN GALLON PN12
EXHIBIT #ALAEA2 WITNESS STATEMENT OF KEITH MICHAEL MOSES PN14