C2003/5051, Transcript of Proceedings [2003] AIRCTrans 4276 (29 September 2003)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER LAWSON

C2003/5051
C2003/5165
C2003/5170
C2003/5171
C2003/5207

TRANSPORT WORKERS' UNION AUSTRALIA

and

QANTAS AIRWAYS LIMITED

Application under Section 99 of the Act
of an industrial dispute

SYDNEY

3.10 PM, WEDNESDAY, 10 SEPTEMBER 2003

Continued from 27.8.03 in Melbourne

PN391

MR J. ALLAN: I appear for the Transport Workers' Union of Australia.

PN392

MR M. McDONALD: I continue to appear for Qantas pursuant to leave being granted on the last occasion and I appear with MR OGILVIE and MS BUSSELL.

PN393

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr McDonald. I note for the record that there is no appearance from the ACTU on this occasion, however, I will come to the ACTU a little later. All of these matters were last before the Commission in Melbourne on 27 August 2003. On that occasion, firstly, in matter C2003/5207 was joined to the other matters then before the Commission. Secondly, the matters were adjourned until 8 September so as to facilitate further direct negotiations between the parties principal and those matters were then relisted for directions hearing for 8 September.

PN394

Thirdly, the parties consented to a variation to the section 127 order issued by Commissioner Eames and also to the directions that are applicable to Qantas' engagement of certain persons through a labour hire agency. On 4 September the Commission wrote to the parties to obtain identification and clarification of the issues for arbitration. On 5 September Mr Ogilvie, on behalf of Qantas, sought an adjournment of the then intended directions hearing from 5 September to a later date this week.

PN395

Mr Ogilvie was then informed of the Commission's availability and sometime later Mr Ogilvie returned a call on behalf of all the principals and accepted an adjournment of the directions hearing until today in Sydney. In response to the Commission's correspondence concerning the identification of the issues for arbitration, Freehills, on behalf of Qantas wrote to the Commission on 5 September and set out its view with regard to the two section 127 applications. They being matters C2003/5165 and 5207 and reserve Qantas' right to respond again once the TWU had identified the issues it proposed to be the subject of arbitration.

PN396

Also on 5 September the TWU advised by fax that it was not able to clarify those issues at that time and would not be in a position to do so until Monday 8 September. Finally, by way of introductory remarks, yesterday, 9 September, I was contacted firstly by Mr Allan, secondly by Ms Bussell and later in the day by Mr Watts of the ACTU. Mr Allan and Ms Bussell indicated that the parties wished to take the opportunity today to record the outcome of their direct negotiations concerning a resolution of the baggage handlers matter at Melbourne airport.

PN397

With regards to Mr Watts' telephone call he advised me that the ACTU acknowledged that the parties principal had negotiated an outcome. Well, what is it the parties wish to record today?

PN398

MR McDONALD: Perhaps if I could place on the record, Commissioner, that the current position, for that purpose I wonder if I could hand up two documents. These documents

PN399

THE COMMISSIONER: Just before you go on, Mr McDonald. Okay. You wish to tender both of these documents?

PN400

MR McDONALD: No, Commissioner. I wish to tender only the document which is headed TWU settlement re labour hire Melbourne Airport. The other document which is correspondence from Mr Isan Manga to Mr Noonan by consent of the parties which simply requests that that correspondence remain on the Commission file without being marked as an exhibit.

PN401

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, Mr McDonald, I have one procedural concern.

PN402

MR McDONALD: Yes.

PN403

THE COMMISSIONER: The document that you are asking me to accept as a tender is titled TWU settlement re labour hire Melbourne Airport. It is very clearly marked "final version without prejudice."

PN404

MR McDONALD: Yes.

PN405

THE COMMISSIONER: It is not my practice to receive documents that are marked "without prejudice" for formal recording unless the parties openly consent to my accepting that tender during the proceedings.

PN406

MR McDONALD: That is the position. It is marked "without prejudice" but both parties waive that.

PN407

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. Mr Allan, could you just record that you have no objection to this single page document being marked as an exhibit?

PN408

MR ALLAN: I have no objection, Commissioner.

PN409

THE COMMISSIONER: I will mark the document as I have described it.

EXHIBIT #QF1 TWU SETTLEMENT DOCUMENT

PN410

THE COMMISSIONER: I note the second document which Mr McDonald has asked me merely to place on the Commission's file.

PN411

MR McDONALD: Thank you, Commissioner. The two documents embody in principle the agreement which has been reached between the parties which underscore the various applications which are before you. The terms of that in principle agreement will be put to the TWUs membership in Melbourne on Monday and Tuesday of next week and in the event that the in principle agreement is endorsed by the membership it is agreed that all matters presently before you, all applications presently before you, would be withdrawn.

PN412

So what we would seek - one further matter, Commissioner, that deals with the discussions between the parties. On the last occasion you varied both the section 127 order which had previously been obtained by Qantas and you also varied a direction which had been issued regarding the engagement or the utilisation of labour service employees. By the consent of the parties it is requested that you further vary the operative date of both the order and direction - vary the operative date from 15 September until 17 September. We are in the Commission's hands as to the - - -

PN413

THE COMMISSIONER: You are now referring to, just for clarity of identity - - -

PN414

MR McDONALD: Yes.

PN415

THE COMMISSIONER: - - - the variation of the order issued by myself in Melbourne on 27 August and published as print PR937007?

PN416

MR McDONALD: Correct.

PN417

THE COMMISSIONER: And the variation of the direction also issued by myself in Melbourne 27 August which does not have a print number?

PN418

MR McDONALD: Correct.

PN419

THE COMMISSIONER: That each of them be again varied?

PN420

MR McDONALD: Yes.

PN421

THE COMMISSIONER: So the operative date of both the order and the direction - - -

PN422

MR McDONALD: Will be amended from the 15th - - -

PN423

THE COMMISSIONER: 15 September - - -

PN424

MR McDONALD: to 17 September.

PN425

THE COMMISSIONER: - - - to 17 September.

PN426

MR McDONALD: As I indicated, if the in principle agreement is endorsed by the membership it is agreed between the parties that all extant applications would be withdrawn and there would be no need for any further hearing of those matters by the Commission.

PN427

THE COMMISSIONER: How would you expect application for those matters to be withdrawn - be dealt with, Mr McDonald?

PN428

MR McDONALD: It could - well, it could be dealt with simply by the representatives of the TWU informing you at your office on Wednesday morning of the outcome of the vote which took place in the two preceding days and then the parties lodging notice of discontinuance in respect of their respective applications on Wednesday. I would rather not contemplate the alternative scenario. That is what occurs if the - - -

PN429

THE COMMISSIONER: Well, none of us would, Mr McDonald. However, let us be pragmatic about this.

PN430

MR McDONALD: Yes, yes.

PN431

THE COMMISSIONER: These meetings are to take place in Melbourne on Monday and Tuesday. I have arrangements in place at the present moment to get to Melbourne on Tuesday afternoon for what are intended to be 3 days of arbitration commencing first thing on Wednesday morning.

PN432

MR McDONALD: Yes.

PN433

THE COMMISSIONER: I'm happy to leave that arrangement in place or vary that arrangement subject to the parties views.

PN434

MR McDONALD: Well, the practical position, Commissioner, is that if the vote which takes place on the Monday and Tuesday rejects the in principal agreement well, clearly, the applications are still going to be on foot and there would be a need for further programming of those applications and that would conveniently take place on Wednesday, Commissioner.

PN435

THE COMMISSIONER: In Melbourne?

PN436

MR McDONALD: In Melbourne.

PN437

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN438

MR McDONALD: Yes. I think that is all I've got to put on the record, if the Commission pleases.

PN439

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, thank you Mr McDonald. Mr Allan?

PN440

MR ALLAN: Yes, Mr Commissioner. The proposed settlement as per exhibit QF1 really comes on the back of the principle thatGeoff Dixon presented to the trade union movement on 26.8, and that be the principle of engagement in regards to permanent to permanent part-timers and to casual work-force. That presentation in reality took the heat out of the situation and the TWU have accepted those principles that Geoff Dixon presented on that day. The processes involved in Melbourne Airport is the permanent to permanent part-time mix is determined by a memorandum of understanding, which was signed off between the parties in August this year.

PN441

We have reached agreement on the numbers of permanents to permanent part-timers and we have reached agreement in a matter of processes on the use of labour hire employees. The local basis of engagement as set out in the correspondence of 9 September, which has been marked for file, and they clearly relate to Melbourne Airport in this particular matter. The TWU and the TWU Victorian/Tasmanian branch and the Qantas delegates, are recommending this settlement to our membership with a series of meetings to be conducted on Monday and Tuesday in order that that process is orderly without any disruption to Qantas services.

PN442

It is expected by the union that should the membership accept the matter, we will be contacting you first thing Wednesday morning if at all possible, Tuesday afternoon, if at all possible. As far as the TWU is concerned, we have no objection to the extension of the order, also the direction through to 17 September.

PN443

THE COMMISSIONER: Anything in response, Mr McDonald?

PN444

MR McDONALD: No, thank you.

PN445

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, well, thank you for those submissions. Having regard to the outcome that has been reached by the parties to the submissions made today and to the consent applications for the existing 127 order and the existing directions to have the life extended from 15 September to 17 September, I will issue a variation to the order and a variation to the direction this afternoon.

PN446

I will merely now adjourn these proceedings to 10 o'clock in Melbourne next Wednesday morning, and I can indicate to the parties that I will be contactable late afternoon one way or the other, or if the position is not completely clear at that point in time then, certainly, any time on Wednesday through the Commission's office in Melbourne. Thank you for your attendance this afternoon at the directions hearing. I will now adjourn these proceedings to next Wednesday.

ADJOURNED UNTIL WEDNESDAY, 17 SEPTEMBER 2003 [3.00pm]

INDEX

LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs

EXHIBIT #QF1 TWU SETTLEMENT DOCUMENT PN410