C2003/5564, Transcript of Proceedings [2003] AIRCTrans 4438 (3 October 2003)

AUSCRIPT PTY LTD
ABN 76 082 664 220

Level 4, 179 Queen St MELBOURNE Vic 3000
(GPO Box 1114 MELBOURNE Vic 3001)
Tel:[phone] Fax:[phone]

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N 4848

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

DEPUTY PRESIDENT IVES

C2003/5564
C2003/5592

NATIONAL UNION OF WORKERS

and

GEORGE WESTON FOODS LTD
t/as BISCUIT & CAKE DIVISION
ABBOTSFORD and ANOTHER

Notification pursuant to section 99 of the Act
of a dispute re relocation, redundancy, long
term casual employees and an alleged breach
of part XA of the Act

READY WORKFORCE PTY LIMITED

and

NATIONAL UNION OF WORKERS

Notification pursuant to section 99 of the Act
of a dispute re strike action at the George
Weston Foods Limited Tottenham site

MELBOURNE

10.05 AM, WEDNESDAY, 17 SEPTEMBER 2003

PN57

MR R. BREDEN: I seek leave to appear on behalf of Ready Workforce Pty Ltd.

PN58

MR T. LYONS: I appear for the National Union of Workers.

PN59

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I have called C2003/5564 back on again this morning simply because - well, for two reasons. One, there was a request that that should be done by the NUW and I agreed that it should be done in the interests of having all of the relevant parties present this morning I don't intend to take that any further in terms of formally joining or anything at this point in time. It was simply to make sure all of the parties are at the table, so if that satisfies everybody I will move on from there.

PN60

MR LYONS: If the Commission pleases.

PN61

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. There is no objection to leave, Mr Lyons?

PN62

MR LYONS: No, your Honour.

PN63

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, leave is granted, Mr Breden.

PN64

MR BREDEN: Thank you, your Honour.

PN65

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Go ahead, Mr Breden.

PN66

MR BREDEN: Your Honour, we act on behalf of Ready Workforce Pty Ltd. Ready Workforce is the employer of the employees in the centre of the dispute. Ready Workforce is a labour hire agency which provides casual temporary labour to George Weston Foods Pty Ltd, the biscuit and cake division, on an as needs basis at its manufacturing site at 100 Olympia Street, Tottenham. Ready Workforce provides casual temporary employees from time to time to work as pickers and other, subject to the operational requirements of the client. All the employees are engaged - - -

PN67

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I think it goes beyond from time to time, doesn't it, Mr Breden?

PN68

MR BREDEN: Pardon?

PN69

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I think it goes a bit beyond from time to time, at least on the evidence in the previous matter, or in the assertions in the previous matter.

PN70

MR BREDEN: Yes, there may be some consistency within the employment in this particular matter.

PN71

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, thank you.

PN72

MR BREDEN: All the employees are engaged under a temporary agreement that outlines the terms and conditions under which the employees agree to be engaged as temporary employees with Ready Workforce. The temporary employment agreement clearly defines the nature of the employment to be casual and temporary on an assignment by assignment basis. The employment on assignments will be subject to the needs of the customer.

PN73

The application on behalf of Ready Workforce under section 99 of the Act in relation to strike action at George Weston Foods Tottenham site occurred on 16 September. At 7 am, or thereabouts, on 16 September 2003 the employees were directed by the union to commence strike action. It is understood the action was in response to one employee being advised the previous day that he would not be required to work on 16 September 2003. As I understand it, all 12 employees - - -

PN74

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Sorry, just slow down a bit, Mr Breden. On the previous day, 15 September, you say that there allegedly was an employee asked not to report to work, is that correct?

PN75

MR BREDEN: I will just confer. That is correct.

PN76

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: By whom?

PN77

MR BREDEN: As I understand it, it was by George Weston Foods, the site supervisor.

PN78

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. What was the reason for the employee not being asked to - - -

PN79

MR BREDEN: There was no work available for that employee on that day.

PN80

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN81

MR BREDEN: So in the event that Ready Workforce was required to fill a shift for its client on that day there was no work available.

PN82

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right, okay. And then at 7 am on the follow day, 16 September, the rest of the Ready Workforce people - - -

PN83

MR BREDEN: As I understand it, the 11 Ready Workforce employees that were due to start work that day and were required, plus the additional employee that was advised he was not required the previous day, attended for work. When it was confirmed that that employee was not required then all 12 employees engaged in strike action.

PN84

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: For what period, Mr Breden?

PN85

MR BREDEN: As I understand it, for the remaining period of the day.

PN86

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. So the strike action has now ended, has it?

PN87

MR BREDEN: That is my understanding. They are back at work this morning on the basis that George Weston Foods does require in excess of 12 individuals and so therefore those 12 employees of Ready Workforce do have an assignment for that day.

PN88

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, okay. Thanks, Mr Breden. I am sorry I interrupted you mid flow but I was getting a bit lost at the rate you were moving. Thanks. Carry on.

PN89

MR BREDEN: That is okay. All 12 employees as stated formed a picket line across George Weston Foods entry/exit gate preventing all product delivery trucks from entering or leaving the site, effectively preventing the delivery of George Weston Foods products both in Victoria and throughout the country. George Weston Foods was also unable to pack additional deliveries due to the absence of sufficient labour. The industrial action taken by the employees was not protected for the purposes of the Workplace Relations Act.

PN90

Prior to the dispute notification it is my understanding that on or about 10 September the National Union of Workers filed a section 99 notification between the union, George Weston Foods and Ready Workforce in matter number C2003/5564. The matter was listed for hearing before your Honour at 2 pm on Monday, 15 September. The parties went into conference to discuss the issues in dispute. The Commission directed the parties to hold discussions on 23 September 2003. The matter was listed for report back before your Honour at 3 pm on Thursday, 25 September 2003.

PN91

Ready Workforce is disappointed that the NUW and the employees ignored the process proposed by your Honour to engage in discussions in an attempt to resolve the dispute. It is the belief of Ready Workforce that the - - -

PN92

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, I am not sure they have really. I mean that meeting hasn't yet occurred, has it?

PN93

MR BREDEN: No, but as I understand it there would be no certainly implied that strike action wouldn't occur prior to that meeting taking place.

PN94

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, yes, but I am not sure that they are in contravention of any direction of this Commission within all fairness.

PN95

MR BREDEN: Perhaps not a formal direction, your Honour.

PN96

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It seems to me that the strike action that occurred, whilst it may well have been related, was over a specific instance of, at least from what you have told me, over a specific instance of work not being available for a particular individual, which was not a matter that was canvassed in any hearing before me. Anyway, continue, Mr Breden.

PN97

MR BREDEN: It is believed that the employees intend to take further industrial action of a similar nature in the event that all 12 employees are not required to perform work on behalf of Ready Workforce at the George Weston Foods site. This is despite their status as casual temporary employees and the agreed conditions upon which they would be engaged by Ready Workforce. Ready Workforce however does have a strong desire to prevent further industrial action from occurring. As such we would respectfully request that directions be given of a formal nature in the kind of those handed up.

PN98

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Can I just ask you, Mr Breden, with what regularity had the individual who was not provided with work on 16 September previously been provided with work?

PN99

MR BREDEN: Well, as I understand it, all 12 employees have been provided with work on that assignment of a reasonably regular nature. However, of the 12 employees for the past previous weeks only 11 had been needed by George Weston Foods as pickers. Now, as it happens, given that one of the employees was prepared not to work or volunteered to take a day off or otherwise, or there was other work available other than picking at the site, all 12 employees had in fact been engaged for the previous several weeks, although 11 had only been engaged as pickers.

PN100

Now, there was not other work available for an additional employee. As consistent with the past few weeks, only 11 pickers were needed by George Weston Foods. Consequently George Weston Foods only needed 11 employees of Ready Workforce to engage in that assignment.

PN101

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, okay. But the regularity of work for the 12 people had been there for a significant period of time prior to that, had it?

PN102

MR BREDEN: I am not in a position to say at this time, your Honour. I haven't seen their records. I do not know.

PN103

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. The representative of Ready Workforce is here. Do you wish to take some instructions on that?

PN104

MR BREDEN: If you wish, yes.

PN105

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, thank you.

PN106

MR BREDEN: As I understand it, the work does go up and down but however there has been regular employment for these individuals on this assignment at George Weston Foods for a significant period of time prior to the last three weeks.

PN107

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay. Good, thank you. All right. You were going to hand up a - - -

PN108

MR BREDEN: I will.

PN109

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN110

MR BREDEN: No more submissions at this time, your Honour.

PN111

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Did you wish to have this draft marked, Mr Breden?

PN112

MR BREDEN: Yes, if you wouldn't mind.

EXHIBIT #A1 DRAFT ORDER

PN113

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr Lyons.

PN114

MR LYONS: If the Commission pleases. Your Honour, we take issue fairly substantially with a lot of what was put to you, not so much in the sense that it is necessarily inaccurate but it leaves off many of the salient details which are required to give your Honour a full picture of this matter. My instructions about what has occurred since we were last before I think are quite instructive and indicate that really there has been some sort of attempt at the site to undo the situation that we are currently in trying to fix through the directions that you issued or the agreed position that we got to.

PN115

I am instructed that what occurred is that while the parties were actually - - -

PN116

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Let me just get one thing clear, Mr Lyons. I have not at this stage issued any directions. There was an outcome of a conference which was an agreed position by the parties.

PN117

MR LYONS: Yes.

PN118

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I raise it only because it was put to my associate yesterday in a conversation with Ready Workforce that there was some directions issued by this Commission.

PN119

MR LYONS: No.

PN120

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: There has not been at this point.

PN121

MR LYONS: No, I accept that, your Honour, and I think I was using the term quite loosely. But there was an agreed position the parties got to to attempt to resolve the matter with further recourse here and I think the specific words your Honour adopted was that you would list it for directions if necessary I think.

PN122

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, that is right.

PN123

MR LYONS: Yes. I am instructed that what occurred is that while the parties were before you on Monday, so this is around about 2 pm, and obviously present in the court at that stage were the organiser and our delegate, there was a meeting called of all the Ready Workforce casuals who worked on the site, so that is the remaining 11 employees not counting Steve who is present in the court. That meeting was conducted by Mr Greg Hunter who is an employee of George Weston Foods who I understand to be Mr Timins, who is present in the court today, 2IC at the site. I am not sure whether his designation is supervisor or what, sir.

PN124

I am advised that what he announced to that group of casuals, that there wouldn't be enough work on an ongoing basis. It wasn't limited to one day and that as a result the company was adopting a position of rostering off one casual each day at their election as to who that was. I am instructed that the casuals reply to Mr Hunter, that a similar point had been raised with them in a meeting by Mr Timins one month earlier and the casuals had expressed a view that rather than have one of them dropped off the roster their preferred position was to take each of them an individual reduction in hours to ensure that none of them were actually put off. So that if required on a given day that there wasn't enough work for eight hours for 12 people, the preference of the employees was to work seven hours each for example.

PN125

I am instructed that that was a proposition about one month ago that Mr Timins agreed with. When the casuals reminded Mr Hunter of this his reply was, "Well, that is just the way it is going to be" and Mr Timins will support me in relation to this issue, or words to that effect. He then announced that the person who will be rostered off the following day, whose name is Brian McKay, who has been working at the George Weston Foods distribution centre since May 1997 on an ongoing essentially full time basis, that is, 38 hours ongoing with overtime from week to week, would be the person who would be selected to be dropped off the roster for the next day.

PN126

So he, I am instructed, your Honour, is the second longest serving of the group of the 12 and my instructions which I have taken from the delegate is that this gentleman has been working ongoing essentially in a full time pattern of hours for basically the entire period of his employment, albeit that not all of that was with the agency Ready. As your Honour will recall from my previous submissions, there was some transferring between agencies over the course of the longevity of the employment.

PN127

The NUW discovered that this is the decision that had been made when we returned to our offices from the hearing that was before you. Essentially turned the mobile phones back on and got the messages from the site saying that they are starting to stand people down. Now, it is our submission that it is an incredibly disruptive act for those sort of activities to be occurring on the site when the parties were in here in dispute attempting to figure out a way to sort these matters out.

PN128

The reaction of the union was as follows. Mr Curnow attempted to contact Mr Timins on the spot to attempt to get to the bottom of what the situation was. I am instructed that Mr Timins said he would have to ring Mr Curnow back about the issue. We received a call about 5 pm on Monday evening and we were advised that no, the decision that Mr Hunter had made would stand. As a result of that the employees asked the NUW to conduct a meeting on the Tuesday morning, which we did, and they indicated to us what they wanted to occur was that the previously agreed position, which was that we all take a small reduction in hours so none of us gets stood down, was still their preferred position.

PN129

Mr Curnow attempted to speak to Mr Timins about that at the site on Tuesday morning and I am instructed that what he was advised was to get off the site because this is nothing to do with you. As a result of that the discussion that Mr Curnow conducted was in the driveway of Olex Cables which is next door to the site. Mr Curnow sought to remind Mr Timins of the agreement that had been reached less than one month ago and also reminded him that given that we had a process in train in this place any way to attempt to resolve the issues concerning casual employment it was not in anybody's interest that the matter be escalated at this point, particularly when we had a scheduled meeting next week and a report back before you, your Honour, later next week, and that as a result we sought that the previously agreed position which was if there was any reduction in hours we share it around, ought stand.

PN130

Mr Timins undertook to reply to Mr Curnow in relation to that proposition and did so around an hour later and again replied the decision stood. I am instructed that around about 5 pm that night, this is yesterday evening, a representative of Ready Workforce - if you would just hold on one moment, please - a representative of Ready Workforce came out and spoke with the employees and Mr Curnow and indicated that they were willing to agree - or the client I think was the way it was put, that George Weston Foods were willing to agree that the previously agreed position would apply in the interim while we attempted to sort the matter out in here, which is that the 12 will take the hours between them such as they exist.

PN131

I am instructed the position today, your Honour, is that not only are the 12 working but there is three more as well. Three new casuals have been put in from off the Ready books.

PN132

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Probably because they didn't get a lot of work done yesterday.

PN133

MR LYONS: I think that is probably a fair summary of what the situation is. But certainly the position today is that there is no issue with anyone being stood down today. Your Honour, the charitable view of this is that there was an over zealous supervisor at the site who took some action while the parties were in here. The less charitable view and the one that we lean to is that this is really an attempt to unpick the factual situation on the ground on which the NUW will be seeking to rely in the event there is any proceedings before you.

PN134

With respect, we suggest that that shows a good deal of disrespect to this Commission in the proceedings in which the parties are embarked given that the representatives of all the parties were here while this meeting on the site was occurred and people were agreeing to processes of their own free will, not of the direction of the Commission, to try and resolve the matter while out on the job there were people essentially trying to provoke an industrial dispute in our submission. The union had made no - there is a couple of things about the section 99 notice that I only received when I attended the court this morning, your Honour, and which we take issue with.

PN135

The first is at paragraph 6 where it is suggested the union directed the employees to commence strike action. Our union does not under any circumstances direct anybody to go on strike. Members make their own decisions in relation to that issue and I am instructed that we have not indicated that the strike action will continue for several days. The proposition we put was we seek that you honour the agreement you made with the workforce which is that in the event of any short term reductions in the workload it will be handled in the following way.

PN136

Our members are not unreasonable about this, sir. They don't expect to get paid to do nothing. They have just put a proposition to their employer about how in the event there is any small reduction in the workload about how that is handled in a fair way. There is a couple of other factual issues, sir. The first is that the 12 casual employees don't all work as pickers. I am instructed that three of them are basically permanent forklift drivers, so there is a necessity for three to be a forklift driving crew and the balance to be the pickers. I am also instructed, and this may be of some assistance to the parties in resolving the issue, that one of the casual employees has asked for three weeks time off.

PN137

As you appreciate, these casuals don't have to negotiate their time off rather than have an entitlement to paid leave. My understanding is that has been approved or allowed. That is due to commence next week, which may have some effect of providing some short term reduction in the workforce in any case which may be enough to resolve the issue pending any further discussions we have in relation to the broader dispute. It is our submission, sir, this is really a bit of a sideshow. The main issues are still as we put to you earlier.

PN138

There has been tabled what purports to be directions. It would be our submission that the Commission has no power to issue directions of this form which purport to be essentially orders against industrial action.

PN139

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: In might have some power to issue some others though, Mr Lyons, for which no application has been made yet.

PN140

MR LYONS: Well, I think that is right, your Honour, and these directions are more of the form of orders which are appropriately made under the appropriate provisions of the Act.

PN141

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN142

MR LYONS: I think I will say no more about that at that point.

PN143

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No.

PN144

MR LYONS: We would suggest respectfully, your Honour, that the proper course subject to what Ms Russell may have to say, that we adjourn these matters into conference and attempt to get the thing back on the rails the union thought we had them on on Monday afternoon when we left you. If the Commission pleases.

PN145

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, thank you. Ms Russell, I have not taken appearance from you in this matter but it seems that, at least from what has been put from the bench, that George Weston Foods is in the frame so to speak, so perhaps you would like to make some submission while we are on the record.

PN146

MS RUSSELL: Yes, I would, your Honour. There has been a number of things that have been said that on my instructions are not correct. Mr Lyons said he had a charitable view and a less charitable one. Both of those - - -

PN147

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: He said he leaned towards the less charitable one.

PN148

MS RUSSELL: Yes. I wasn't surprised to hear that, your Honour. The difficulty with both those views is that the factual position is not as it has been outlined to you. On my instructions the position is that for a number of weeks George Weston's requirements in terms of labour from Ready Workforce have varied. There has been a reduction from what was the position prior to a couple of weeks ago. I understand that over the last couple of weeks the number of Ready Workforce employees that have been provided to George Weston on occasion have been 10, other occasions it has been 11, other occasions it has been 12.

PN149

Now, in terms of the impact on the 12 individuals who have had work at George Weston, my understanding is that because of employees taking leave indicating that they wanted to have a day off and some alternative duties there has not been a situation up until Monday where it has been necessary for - sorry, until yesterday, it has been necessary to actually go and say to somebody you will not be required tomorrow because of, as I say, employees either being on leave, volunteering to have a day off, but that the numbers on site have, as I say, been 10, 11 or 12.

PN150

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: When was the last time, leaving aside this most recent event, that it was necessary to do that, Ms Russell?

PN151

MS RUSSELL: I would need to get some instructions about that, your Honour.

PN152

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: You might like to do that, yes.

PN153

MS RUSSELL: Would you like me to do that now?

PN154

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, if you don't mind.

PN155

MS RUSSELL: Your Honour, approximately four or five months ago, on my instructions, would be the last time that it has been necessary and that is because two things, one, as it has already been indicated, there are other functions that can be performed so sometimes when there is not picking work there is other work that people can perform and also because you do have people in the nature I suppose of casual employment coming along and saying, look, don't feel like working next week or don't feel like working tomorrow.

PN156

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay. I was really just trying to ascertain whether it was an unusual event, Ms Russell, and it appears that it is an unusual event and it probably unfortunately coincided with discussions that were being had in respect of the other matter

PN157

MS RUSSELL: Yes, your Honour. I think the only difference about - it is not as if - the way I think that it has been put to you by the union is that all of a sudden there has been this reduction in the workload. That is not correct. What happened on Tuesday was that there was no change to the amount of work that has been there for the last couple of weeks. The difference on Tuesday was that the number of employees who were available to work was for the first time in excess.

PN158

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: In excess, yes.

PN159

MS RUSSELL: And indeed the way that the discussions started was actually in a way where George Weston thought that there was a suggestion being made that was going to try and minimise the impact on the individuals. My instructions are that the initial discussion was not convening a meeting of all the employees, it was a one on one discussion between a George Weston representative and one of the employees where the suggestion was made of look, as you are aware, there is a reduction in the amount of work, a way of trying to share the pain if you like is effectively for the employees to have a roster that says - so instead of relying on, you know, somebody saying, look, I am going to have a day off tomorrow, I am not going to be around, have a process that has got a bit more structure in it, a bit more certainty for everyone, and so the suggestion was, well, if the employees put together a roster that says okay look, this week Bill won't be available and next week, Mary, that would be the way to go.

PN160

Now, my instructions are that after that discussion all the employees then wanted to be involved in a discussion about that. Now, my instructions are there has never been any agreement between George Weston and Ready Workforce or anyone else that there would be this reduction of one hour a day, this so called agreement that has been referred to a month ago. My instructions are there was no such agreement about that, that all that happened on Tuesday was that a way of dealing with this imbalance between the numbers, as I say, trying to put a bit more structure into what had been a fairly informal process for two to three weeks was raised, that there were then discussions between the NUW and George Weston where it was made fairly clear to George Weston that in effect now the claim that was being put onto George Weston was for a guarantee of 12 employees being provided with work every day.

PN161

Now, George Weston's concern in this matter clearly is that the industrial action yesterday had a significant impact on its business and it is concerned that if in effect now there is a claim on both Ready Workforce and George Weston that there must be sufficient work for 12 people, then given the current state of the workload where that is not likely to be the case there is a real prospect of further industrial action.

PN162

Now, at this stage clearly, as your Honour has already indicated, there are various applications that could be made both by the employer and also by my client as a party affected. We are happy to go into conference but I think it is important just in terms of the background to this matter that what has been the situation for a number of weeks was explained and also as I say, that what happened on Tuesday was not as it has been portrayed to you, some reduction in the workforce. It was really trying to put some structure into dealing with a change that has been there for a number of weeks.

PN163

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: You say there was no agreement in the terms suggested by Mr Lyons, that is, about reductions in the number of hours that each individual worked on any given day.

PN164

MS RUSSELL: Yes.

PN165

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Were there any discussions about such a process being put into place?

[10.35am]

PN166

MS RUSSELL: I don't know, your Honour. I will get some instructions about that.

PN167

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN168

MS RUSSELL: Yes, your Honour, that was put as a preferred option but there was no agreement on that. And that certainly wasn't what occurred from that date in the last couple of weeks.

PN169

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, thank you. Yes, Mr Breden.

PN170

MR BREDEN: Your Honour, if I may. I have been instructed that Ready WorkForce never confirmed with the employees that there would be an agreed maintaining of manning levels but a reduction in hours, as purported by my friend at about 5 o'clock yesterday. I just want to reiterate the point that this section 99 dispute notification is in relation to Ready Workforce employees going on strike because a client of Ready Workforce has instructed Ready Workforce that it no longer requires work for a member of Ready Workforce's team if you like.

PN171

It is highly inappropriate then for Ready Workforce employees to go and picket a client of Ready Workforce's, albeit whether they work in that particular assignment or another. If they have issue with Ready Workforce's ability or inability to provide them with an assignment on that day then they should be talking to Ready Workforce about that and not disrupting the business of a client, because it does nothing to endear the relationship between Ready Workforce and its client which will presumably ensure that Ready Workforce has assignments to provide to its employees on an ongoing matter.

PN172

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Mr Breden, I intend to go into conference on this matter, however you have sought an order from the Commission and let me say I would seek further submissions from all the parties about any order that may or may not issue. However, the draft that you have handed up as exhibit A1 doesn't suggest what part of the Act this order should issue under. Would you like to enlighten me?

PN173

MR BREDEN: Well, this was I guess an attempt for us to gain - as we understand it the previous dispute notification there was no formal directions provided by yourself. There was an indication of a process that should be followed. This was an attempt for us to get some more formal directions from the Commission as to the nature of the process that would occur in the event that then that formal directions weren't followed, for whatever reason, it would then be open to us to perhaps rely upon those directions to issue or seek an order from the Commission.

PN174

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, good. Thanks, Mr Breden.

PN175

MR LYONS: Your Honour, I wondered before we adjourn I can just correct a factual situation. I have taken some instructions about the practical situation in terms of the workload which I think your Honour was questioning Ms Russell about. I am instructed that last week there was one day where one member asked for a day off, or agreed to have a day off. In addition to that last week there was one day where a member was stood down for a part of a day for a disciplinary matter. Other than that the 12 worked the whole work.

PN176

I am instructed that the week before all 12 worked the whole week, all five days. So the position that Ms Russell has put that says there has been some drop off in the workforce and there is only ever 10 or nine or 11 there each day is simply not true. I mean that position for the last two weeks. The factual position on the ground does not bear out what has been put to you. There has been 12 there.

PN177

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay. I don't want to go up and down the table on that issue.

PN178

MR LYONS: No.

PN179

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No doubt it will get canvassed in conference. Unless anybody has got anything further that they have a burning desire to see on the record, I intend to adjourn and go into conference.

NO FURTHER PROCEEDINGS RECORDED

INDEX

LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs

EXHIBIT #A1 DRAFT ORDER PN113