C3890/397, Transcript of Proceedings [2003] AIRCTrans 4554 (13 October 2003)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT HARRISON

C No 38903 of 1997
C No 38904 of 1997

TRANSPORT WORKERS AWARD 1998

TRANSPORT WORKERS (LONG DISTANCE
DRIVERS) AWARD 2000

Applications under section 113 of the Act
to vary the above awards re inserting a new
clause - transportation of dangerous goods allowance

SYDNEY

4.06 PM, FRIDAY, 26 SEPTEMBER 2003

Continued from 14.8.03 in Melbourne

Hearing continuing

THESE PROCEEDINGS WERE CONDUCTED BY VIDEO CONFERENCE IN SYDNEY

PN3062

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I'll take appearances in these matters. There's no appearance here in Sydney. I'll have appearances in Canberra first.

PN3063

MR D. ANDERSON: If it please the Commission, I appear with MR C. JOHNSON for Natroad, your Honour.

PN3064

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Now, I'll take appearances in Melbourne.

PN3065

MR L. DUFFIN: If the Commission pleases, I continue to appear for the Transport Workers Union.

PN3066

MR P. RYAN: Your Honour, I still appear on behalf of the Australian Road Transport Industrial Organisation.

PN3067

MS F. FIELD: Your Honour, I still appear for the Australian Industry Group.

PN3068

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I was trying to remember before I came in here just where we'd got to. I know there were a number of issues that needed to be considered by the parties when we last adjourned. The matter is part heard. I think I've received some correspondence, certainly from you, Mr Ryan, following what appears to have been a meeting of the employers to consider issues relating to where the remaining dates of hearing should be and inspections.

PN3069

I think from you too, Mr Anderson, yes, with a request that the sort of conference we're now holding occur. I think they're the only documents I've received, but I think there might have also been some movement in the interim period in relation to some of the dates we had tentatively set and that might come first from you, Mr Duffin. I don't know that other people were in the same position.

PN3070

There's probably a few things we need to attend to. Who will I start with? Maybe you, Mr Duffin. What do you understand to be the areas of agreement and what are the matters not agreed but we need to subject to some further directions, I imagine.

PN3071

MR DUFFIN: Your Honour, thanks for the opportunity. I'd have to say that there haven't actually been any areas of agreement to date, although I am not - perhaps if I start with the hearing dates. At the previous hearing before yourself, we had the 22nd, 23rd and 24 October as the next set of hearing dates. Regrettable, your Honour, I am unavailable on those three dates. However, I believe that if they are still in your diary, it may still be appropriate nevertheless to continue to hold the inspections in relation to a couple of sites and the representative of the union will attend. It seems to me that it would be a waste of those dates that have presently been set aside.

PN3072

Accordingly, in relation to Mr Ryan's correspondence of 26 August, I don't have any particular views as to whether it is necessary to see all five sites. It would be our proposal in addition, your Honour, that the parties - well, it's our request to the Commission pursuant to section 111, I guess as well - that the parties would see the Toll SPD site in Victoria. We would also seek that the Kenfran site in Victoria be seen.

PN3073

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Where's that?

PN3074

MR DUFFIN: That's in Victoria. I don't have the actual address of it.

PN3075

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is it a suburban site?

PN3076

MR DUFFIN: Yes, it's in Laverton, I think. I think that's right. Well, I guess it's not very far from the TNT Express site obviously. Ideally we would also see the FBT site, your Honour, but my inclination is that while it's useful to see eight sites, in one sense, from our perspective, it probably would not be necessary to see all of those but I understand that the employers have had their hook up and reached these five sites as a position and I guess they can speak for them themselves.

PN3077

As such, your Honour, if it would be possible to see a proportion of those on those dates that have been allocated in October and that the hearing still occur in Melbourne in accordance with Mr Ryan's letter, we would see that as being an appropriate course.

PN3078

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Now, what about the November dates?

PN3079

MR DUFFIN: The November dates, at the present time I have a clash on the 11th, 12th and 13th. However, it will be possible for me to avoid the other matter that I have on the 11th, 12th and 13th and have another member of the TWU deal with that particular matter. So it would be our preference that those dates that Mr Ryan has set down and I think your Honour had previously indicated that you had it free, that they'd be used for the purposes of this matter.

PN3080

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Well, certainly they're still in my diary but I have to alert you that I'm having difficulty getting accommodation. I didn't know that the World Cup was going to impact on Melbourne in the manner in which apparently it's going to during that week. I was quite confident when we didn't set it the week before that I wouldn't have a problem so I've just got a little problem myself at the moment as a result of that.

PN3081

But working backwards, I still do have in my diary those October dates. I assume I won't strike the same problem in Melbourne coming down to take inspections but it would be useful to have those inspections at some stage during those three days we'd previously spoken about but they're just a couple of little personal problems that have come my way. Well, why don't you just leave it at that for the time being, Mr Duffin and I'll hear from Mr Ryan and other representatives and employers and maybe at some stage we'll go off transcript and see if we can sort out how we can continue with this case. Mr Ryan?

PN3082

MR RYAN: Thank you, your Honour. Just referring to my note of 26 August, those five locations listed were the ones agreed after discussion with the other employer organisations, particularly K and S Terminal Whitehall right at Footscray, that's the New South Wales RTA suggestion, Pickering Transport is the Natroad suggestion. I see TNT Express and Westgate G9 facility as being important because they are examples of product that is packaged but non placable and Russell Transport is a dangerous goods specialist and as we were probably going to spend a day or so in Queensland taking evidence, we could do some inspections, an inspection in the morning and then evidence in the afternoon.

PN3083

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, I see, on one of those dates, 22, 23, 24?

PN3084

MR RYAN: Well, I don't think that will be possible now that Mr Duffin is not available.

PN3085

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, I think that's right, but if we're going to need to hear evidence in Queensland at some stage, it looks as if Russell Transport - now, taking Russell Transport out, could you do the other four sites in one day?

PN3086

MR RYAN: I think so, plus the two that Mr Duffin suggested, you'd probably go pretty close to knocking them off in a day.

PN3087

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, that would be terrific and I don't mind how full a day it is but that would be my preference and at worse -

PN3088

MR RYAN: My only concern, your Honour, is that I have a matter before Commissioner Whelan on the 22nd because I did receive Mr Duffin's notification that he was unavailable for those dates so -

PN3089

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That's not a problem. It just so happened I held them in my diary which was aided by the fact I've been on leave for most of that time so that's why nothing else had gone in there. The Thursday actually would be my preference, do a pretty full day of inspections and hold the Friday morning available but it would be very good if we could do them in one day. That would happen to also assist me in the unfortunate event I have a problem with getting accommodation yet again, I'd just come over on a very early flight and I can go back on a late one.

PN3090

MR RYAN: Well, we'd certainly be trying to accommodate your needs, your Honour.

PN3091

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Well, let's assume subject to speaking to the other employers that we do inspections on the 23rd, aim towards trying to do them all in one day but know that if we couldn't, I'd hold the Friday morning as well and we can come back to setting an agreed timetable which sort of takes us in the most efficient and logical direction, looking at all of these sites and then Mr Duffin, you too can organise one of your colleagues to attend to this.

PN3092

MR RYAN: Your Honour, most of them are probably within a 10 to 15 kilometre radius of each other.

PN3093

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Good. Well, I think with a long day, I think we could do them all in one day.

PN3094

MR RYAN: Yes, your Honour.

PN3095

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, what do you want to propose we do on the November dates, just bearing in mind at the moment I've got nowhere to stay in Melbourne but the days are all in my diary but to the extent to which those days are going to be held in Melbourne, I just need to make a few more calls.

PN3096

MR RYAN: The other option is possible to do a day or two days in Brisbane, but are they hamstrung by the World Cup as well?

PN3097

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I don't know the answer to that.

PN3098

MR RYAN: I would have thought it will be worse in Brisbane because they're more rugby orientated than the people are down here, your Honour.

PN3099

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I don't know the answer to that. I just know that the final is on the 22nd which is a matter I just ascertained recently. In an ideal world, what would you propose we do in the week commencing the 10th?

PN3100

MR RYAN: I would probably suggest we could maybe have two days in Melbourne and two days in Brisbane or two days in Melbourne, one in Brisbane and one in Sydney.

PN3101

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right, so something like that but in any event, certainly use four of the days, so still hold the week?

PN3102

MR RYAN: If we can, your Honour.

PN3103

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Anything else you want to say about matters we need to consider in relation to programming the remaining part of this case?

PN3104

MR RYAN: Nothing further at this stage, your Honour.

PN3105

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Ms Field?

PN3106

MS FIELD: Thank you, your Honour. Your Honour, I don't in principle have any problems with what's proposed. I just have a personal difficulty on both the 23rd and 24 October but I'm sure that I can manage either to get somebody else to attend inspections from the AI Group or else talk to the other employer representatives to perhaps look after our interests on those inspections.

PN3107

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, that would be ideal so I think you should assume that those arrangements should be made. You're still available for the week commencing 10 November?

PN3108

MS FIELD: I am, your Honour, yes.

PN3109

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Mr Anderson?

PN3110

MR ANDERSON: Thank you, your Honour. Yes, we're comfortable with the arrangements as proposed. We were keen to ensure reasonable inspections of a reasonable spread of operations within a manageable program and I think we've achieved that in the Melbourne based inspections suggested. The only other comment I'd make is I would see one day in Brisbane as being ideal and one in Sydney and two in Melbourne as suggested by Mr Ryan.

PN3111

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN3112

MR RYAN: Your Honour, in my diary I have the 11th, 12th, 13th and 14 November. I don't have the 10th.

PN3113

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, I'm sorry, I've got another commitment in Melbourne. I put a line through the whole diary for the week. It's another commitment in Melbourne on the Monday. Yes, you're quite right - which that itself is going to be presenting a problem for the reasons I mentioned earlier. Well, I just really think at least personally I need to make some further inquiries. I suppose if I bring you all up here to Sydney or we all go to Brisbane, we might all then have the same problem. I think we probably just all need to make some inquiries about availability of accommodation, don't we? It would be sad to loose the days that we're all holding. We just need to figure out where we can all be at the same time. We might go off transcript for a short time.

OFF THE RECORD [4.21pm]

RESUMES [4.27pm]

PN3114

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: These matters are now adjourned for further hearing in Melbourne on Thursday, 23 October. When I indicate hearing, that's probably a little misleading. It's likely to be that on that day there will be inspections and it is likely that they will commence at about 8.30am but in due course, I'll send out a notice of listing reflecting the actual commencement time and the inspections for the day.

PN3115

I should indicate that we are all still continuing to hold Tuesday the 11th through to and including Friday, 14 November, but over the next few days hopefully the parties will sort out which states we will be on which dates. At the moment, it's likely to be 11-12 Melbourne, 13-14 Sydney and or Brisbane, but a further notice of listing about that will be issued in due course. Liberty to apply. The Commission now adjourns.

ADJOURNED UNTIL THURSDAY, 23 OCTOBER 2003 IN MELBOURNE [4.28pm]