C0014/499, Transcript of Proceedings [2003] AIRCTrans 467 (12 February 2003)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER RAFFAELLI

C00144 of 1999

PILOTS' SUPPLEMENTARY AIRLINES AWARD 1988

Review under Item 51, Schedule 5, Transitional
WROLA Act 1996 re CTS description

C2002/3998

PILOTS' SUPPLEMENTARY AIRLINES AWARD 1988

Application under section 113 of the Act by
Aeropelican Air Services Pty Ltd to vary the above
award re deletion of various clauses from award

SYDNEY

9.30 AM, WEDNESDAY, 29 JANUARY 2003

Hearing continuing

THESE PROCEEDINGS WERE CONDUCTED BY TELEPHONE CONFERENCE IN SYDNEY

PN1

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Moloney, are you there?

PN2

MR L. MOLONEY: Yes, Commissioner.

PN3

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Cox?

PN4

MR L. COX: Yes, Commissioner.

PN5

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Ogilvie?

PN6

MR N. OGILVIE: Yes, Commissioner.

PN7

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Sharad?

PN8

MR T. SHARAD: Good morning, Commissioner.

PN9

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Moloney, I have seen the correspondence and attached draft award that I take it represents the views of the employers, or only of the - - -

PN10

MR MOLONEY: It should, Commissioner, represent the views of ourselves, Mr Ogilvie, his input, and also some of his other associated clients, as well as Ms Rehn's views from the Department.

PN11

MR SHARAD: Commissioner, could I just point out that I have reviewed that draft and while it largely addresses the issues that the Commonwealth has raised, there are a few remaining issues with that draft that the Commonwealth would point to.

PN12

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. Mr Ogilvie, you agree with what Mr Moloney has said?

PN13

MR OGILVIE: Yes, that's correct, Commissioner.

PN14

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Cox?

PN15

MR COX: What are we talking about, Commissioner, I have no document?

PN16

MR MOLONEY: An email was sent late yesterday afternoon, Lawrie, it would have been sent to your office probably after 6pm your time, with a short note attached to it as well as an attached document. I guess our position this morning is - well, we circulated that yesterday afternoon, it's clear that people will need time to examine the document, particularly the AFAP, and I guess our position, Commissioner, is to say, well, that's going to take a couple of weeks at least and we will probably need to come back to the Commission, that was the view of the AFAP. We will take account of any other issues Mr Sharad has that we haven't already picked up and see if we can get as close as possible to an agreed position.

PN17

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN18

MR MOLONEY: Lawrie, we sent your email late yesterday afternoon, I will confirm that later on this morning, it definitely went to your email - - -

PN19

MR COX: Fair enough.

PN20

THE COMMISSIONER: It's apparent that we can't do much more than record the situation, which we are doing, it is clear that that draft represents the views of the Qantas group, if I might call it that, and of Aeropelican and largely the views of the Commonwealth although they have some matters that still need to be discussed either with the employers or with both sides. Mr Cox, presumably one way or another you will find that document or you will be sent again a copy of that document, it becomes important then for you to express your views to the other side.

PN21

MR COX: Commissioner, from our point of view, we understood that a complete document was coming, it was an agreed document between the employers and the Minister. I am in your hands as to which way you want me to go. My understanding was that we have taken account of all the matters that were raised by Ms Rehn. If there are still some outstanding matters that Mr Sharad has got I am happy to have a look at those but I think it's important to try and keep the process moving along, that we at least get to a position where we have got as much of it as possible.

PN22

THE COMMISSIONER: I think it may be more important for the AFAP to respond to the employer document. In the meantime and quite apart from that, if Mr Sharad or Ms Rehn have matters of concern they can raise it with Mr Moloney and Mr Ogilvie and we will see what happens out of that, rather than wait a little bit longer for the Government to have their views either addressed or not addressed with the employer, so at least we can get to a situation where we know where we stand between the unions and the employers.

PN23

Now, in addition to that there would be some ongoing Government concerns but I take it from what Mr Sharad says that other than with a few matters they are not uncomfortable so it might just be easier if, Mr Cox, you respond to the draft which, as I said, will be found somewhere, hopefully today, you then consider it, you then talk to Mr Ogilvie and Mr Moloney and then when is a convenient time to report back to the Commission, again by telephone, do you have any views, Mr Cox?

PN24

MR COX: I would prefer to review the document and come back - I think depending upon the issues that are raised, how quickly do we need to come back to you, I wouldn't want to put a time frame on it, I don't know exactly what the issues are, I have a fair idea, I suppose, on the basis of just reading the document but I don't want to tie myself down if I can't get hold of people, that's all.

PN25

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. Mr Moloney?

PN26

MR MOLONEY: Commissioner, I will get this re-sent to Lawrie. Lawrie, your email address is [e-mail]?

PN27

MR COX: Yes. That hasn't been opened this morning, that's why I haven't seen it.

PN28

MR MOLONEY: Fair enough. The document itself, we have set it out so that we have identified any provisions that have been deleted by strike-through and where we have inserted provisions, they are in italics, so it should be reasonably user friendly. I guess from my client's perspective we would probably like to see this matter just continue to progress. I will undertake to liaise further with Mr Sharad today and tomorrow and if there are any other issues we will send you minor amendments. If it's substantial then I guess we will re-send the whole document.

PN29

The second thing, Commissioner, is I guess a time frame for responses. We are largely in the AFAPs hands there, but certainly a telephone conference report back I think would be appropriate.

PN30

MR SHARAD: Commissioner, it's Tim Sharad. Could I just say, look, the outstanding issues that the Commonwealth has I could explain them to Lawrie within a matter of five or ten minutes, it's not major redrafting.

PN31

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. What I propose to do, and I think there's sufficient time for the AFAP to put their matters in writing as well, is to list the matter for 9.30 on Friday, 28 February, by telephone, that's four weeks away, I would think that's sufficient time so that's what I propose to do. There is no opposition to that?

PN32

MR MOLONEY: No, Commissioner.

PN33

MR COX: No, Commissioner.

PN34

THE COMMISSIONER: The listing will be formalised but it will be at 9.30 am on Friday, 28 February. On that basis these proceedings are now adjourned. Thank you.

ADJOURNED UNTIL FRIDAY, 28 FEBRUARY 2003