C2003/6049, Transcript of Proceedings [2004] AIRCTrans 125 (8 January 2004)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N 5749

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER MANSFIELD

C2003/6049

ADI LIMITED (MIDDLE MANAGEMENT
AND PROFESSIONAL) AWARD 1998

Application under section 113 of the Act
by Association of Professional Engineers,
Scientists and Managers, Australia to vary
the above award re wages and conditions
of employment

MELBOURNE

10.10 AM, WEDNESDAY, 17 DECEMBER 2003

Continued from 13.11.03

PN160

MR M. BUTLER: I appear on behalf of the Association of Professional Engineers, Scientists and Managers, Australia.

PN161

MR P. KENNEDY: I appear on behalf of ADI Limited.

PN162

THE COMMISSIONER: Now, this matter was last before the Commission on 13 November at which time there was an outline of the matters that had been applied for by the organisation, APESMA, along with other unions representing staff in ADI and the parties were requested to go away and give the matter further consideration by way of consultation and negotiation between them and report back today with developments so that we could perhaps program, if necessary, a hearing for 2004. So, Mr Butler or Mr Kennedy, who would prefer to give a report? I imagine two very reasonable people like yourselves you have virtually reached agreement on these matters.

PN163

MR KENNEDY: Careful of the optimism, Commissioner.

PN164

THE COMMISSIONER: I see. Okay.

PN165

MR BUTLER: Commissioner, since the last meeting discussions have taken place between ADI Limited and APESMA, including a meeting in Melbourne on 2 December which thoroughly canvassed a whole range of issues. It would be correct to say that in respect of our applications to vary the notification of conditions of employment and the notifications of classification, that it might be possible to resolve that issue between the parties without the need to proceed with those variations. I would say that we are fairly close to agreement on that issue but that is yet to be finalised.

PN166

The other applications that largely pertain to hours of work matters, if I could slot them in under that umbrella, there is agreement to implement the reasonable hours test case and so we can put that to one side. There has been some general discussion - or some thorough discussions on the hours of work issue and ADI have put a proposal to us which we considered and put back an alternative proposal to the company which they are considering. Both parties, I think it is fair to say, have come to the conclusion that the negotiation process is not over and we would like more time to see if agreement can be reached, not only on the subject matter, but the way that any agreement would be processed and with the indulgence of the Commission if we could have more time to do that.

PN167

THE COMMISSIONER: Of course, Mr Butler, there is no difficulty with that.

PN168

MR BUTLER: I mean, from our perspective, if it is possible to have a consent position we would prefer that, but if not then we are certainly prepared to argue our position. So what I was going to suggest that bearing in mind leave over the Christmas-New Year period, including my own, that I was going to suggest a further report back in early February if the Commission has any time.

PN169

THE COMMISSIONER: Of course. Mr Kennedy, how does that sound to you?

PN170

MR KENNEDY: That is fine, Commissioner. I mean, I will confirm that, yes, we have met. We had our director of HR come down from Sydney. I got her to sit in on the meeting and we - Mr Butler brought the New South Wales APESMA person down as well, so we tried to cover the field of where the issues are arising from. There has been an exchange of some correspondence which Mr Butler mentioned, but there is some unfinished business; we haven't finalised all of that. What we have done is agreed to meet again on 27 January after people's leave commitments and that is why for us another report back in February would be suitable and hopefully it would be to say, yes, it is all hunky dory, but if it is not well, we could then program it. If the Commission pleases.

PN171

THE COMMISSIONER: Good. Thank you, Mr Kennedy. I am happy to list it for a further report back any time the parties think it is appropriate. Rather than list it in early February, remembering if people get back off leave about 20 January, get back up to speed and so forth, why don't we consider listing it for the second half of February to give the parties a little bit more time to resolve the matter and I am thinking here around Tuesday, the 17th perhaps.

PN172

MR KENNEDY: I would have to look at my diary but I haven't programmed anything there so we will get first preference.

PN173

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. Mr Butler. I am completely in your hands. If you say you would prefer it late January, early February we will put it in there.

PN174

MR BUTLER: Look, I wouldn't suggest late January but if it were possible to have it in the week beginning 9 February.

PN175

THE COMMISSIONER: The 9th, yes.

PN176

MR BUTLER: I mean there are a number of negotiations that are taking place on a number of different fronts and - - -

PN177

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, Mr Butler, there is no problem. What about 11 February, Wednesday, the 11th?

PN178

MR BUTLER: Well, that would certainly suit me.

PN179

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. We will put it in for 10 o'clock on Wednesday, 11 February for a further report back. Now, at that report back I would be looking to the parties if possible to indicate clearly where you are on the matters and hopefully to be able to report on which matters have been resolved and which matters are incapable of being resolved.

PN180

MR BUTLER: Yes.

PN181

THE COMMISSIONER: But the Commission is very much in the hands of the parties and if you feel on that date it would be beneficial to have further time for further negotiation, well, that is entirely appropriate as well. We are basically here to resolve matters that the parties can't resolve themselves, or try to anyhow. So we will list it for Wednesday, 11 February at 10 am. Is there anything else that we can do usefully this morning?

PN182

MR BUTLER: No, Commissioner.

PN183

THE COMMISSIONER: No. Mr Butler and Mr Kennedy, can I wish you both a very happy Christmas. Hope it goes that everything you want for Christmas turns up in your Christmas stockings. Thank you very much.

PN184

MR KENNEDY: The same to you, Commissioner.

ADJOURNED UNTIL WEDNESDAY, 11 FEBRUARY 2004 [10.17am]