AG2004/1909, Transcript of Proceedings [2004] AIRCTrans 1256 (2 April 2004)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N 6507
AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT KAUFMAN

AG2004/1909

APPLICATION FOR CERTIFICATION
OF AGREEMENT

Application under section 170LJ of the Act
by Australasian Meat Industry Employees Union
- Victorian Branch and Another for certification
of Challenge Meat Pty Ltd and Australasian Meat
Industry Employees Union Victorian Smallgoods
Agreement 2003

MELBOURNE

2.30 PM, TUESDAY, 23 MARCH 2004

PN1

MR P. CONWAY: I appear on behalf of the Australasian Meat Industry Employees Union.

PN2

MR D. URE: I am General Manager, Challenge Meats.

PN3

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, Mr Conway? I have had a go at Mr Davey about turning up in jeans and a tee shirt. It doesn't show a great deal of respect for the Commission. But go ahead.

PN4

MR CONWAY: In all due respect, this is the attire I wear all the time, and I fail to see what relevance it has.

PN5

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr Conway, I have just made a comment that in my view people turning up to appear before the Commission in jeans and a tee shirt show disrespect for the Commission. I am very inclined the next time I see somebody appearing like that in front of me to adjourn the matter until appropriate attire is worn. Now, just get on with it please.

PN6

MR CONWAY: In all due respect, I think that you made a comment, and in all fairness I should be able to make a comment back.

PN7

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr Conway, I am not asking for a debate, I am telling you. Now, do you wish to proceed with this matter, or would you like me to adjourn it?

PN8

MR CONWAY: I will proceed.

PN9

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Go ahead.

PN10

MR CONWAY: The union relies on the statutory declaration, that everything as per the statutory declaration. The union members voted on the agreement, the agreement was posted on the noticeboard, and everything we rely on as per the statutory declaration.

PN11

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Can you tell me what steps were taken by the employer to explain the terms of the agreement to the employees?

PN12

MR CONWAY: The employer?

PN13

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: As I pointed out in the last matter, or the matter before the last matter, the details in relation to question 6.4 through to 6.7 are very scant. Have you got the statutory declaration in front of you?

PN14

MR CONWAY: No, I don't.

PN15

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Can you assist me, Mr Ure?

PN16

MR URE: Sorry, your Honour?

PN17

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Have you got a copy of the statutory declaration?

PN18

MR URE: I have got a copy of the agreement, but not the statutory declaration.

PN19

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, 6.4, gentlemen, says:

PN20

Specify the steps the employer took at least 14 days before any approval was given, to ensure that every person employed at the time, whose employment will be subject to the agreement either had or had ready access to the proposed agreement.

PN21

And the answer to that is, a copy of the proposed agreement was made available. It doesn't tell me how it was made available. And its terms were fully explained at meetings of employees, their elected representatives and the union. Can you tell me a little bit about those meetings please?

PN22

MR URE: Mostly consultative meetings held on a regular basis between the union and our management at Challenge Meats.

PN23

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And what about the employees at Challenge Meats?

PN24

MR URE: Their representatives came to those meetings, and then those representatives went back to a general meeting of the employees together, a bulk meeting.

PN25

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. And what steps were taken by you, the employer, to explain the terms of the agreement?

PN26

MR URE: We are open for any discussion, and let them know on a noticeboard that we were there to discuss any points they didn't understand. And our consultative committee handled that pretty well through the employees, I thought.

PN27

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Are there any people who have special circumstances, don't speak English, or intellectually disabled, or something like that?

PN28

MR URE: No, we don't appear to have any language problems at all. Generally they are very conversant with English and have ego numeration and literacy skills.

PN29

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. You see, one of the questions was:

PN30

Specify the manner in which an explanation of the agreement was made to people who might have needed special help.

PN31

And I have got no answer to that other than referring back to the answer I gave earlier.

PN32

MR URE: We haven't struck that case as yet, your Honour.

PN33

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And what steps were taken to give the employees a reasonable opportunity to decide whether or not they wanted to give approval to the agreement?

PN34

MR URE: Sorry, I am a little bit hard of hearing, your Honour. I didn't quite hear the last question.

PN35

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: What steps were taken to give all employees a reasonable opportunity to decide whether they wanted to give approval?

PN36

MR URE: I think they had in total three general meetings where all the proposal was put towards those, and any objections raised there. As far as I know there were none. The agreement was fairly complete.

PN37

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Now, Mr Conway, what is the understanding of the union in relation to work that is performed on a public holiday that falls on a Sunday, at what rate is that to be paid?

PN38

MR CONWAY: I would see it as being double time plus payment for the public holiday.

PN39

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Mr Ure, does that accord with your understanding?

PN40

MR URE: That is my understanding, your Honour, yes.

PN41

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, very well. Because, again, that Sundays and public holidays clause is difficult to understand. I just want to have on the record what the parties believe it to mean. And finally, Mr Conway, there are various rights given to the union, representative rights given to the union. In 6.2 it is said that:

PN42

The company recognises the union as having exclusive rights to represent the industrial interests of employees to the exclusion of all other organisations.

PN43

And in the settlement of disputes clause and in the consultation clause there are certain rights given to the union to represent employees. If a person is not a member of the union, does the union undertake that that person may be represented by whoever he or she chooses?

PN44

MR CONWAY: Absolutely.

PN45

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr Ure, is that an undertaking that you also give?

PN46

MR URE: Yes, I understand that.

PN47

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Well, in that case I am satisfied that all the necessary requirements of the legislation have been met, and the agreement being an agreement pertaining to the relationship between an employer that is a constitutional corporation carrying on a single business - that is correct, isn't it, Mr Ure, this covers the entirety of your business?

PN48

MR URE: Yes.

PN49

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The agreement passes the no disadvantage test, and having regard to the undertakings given by the parties I will certify the agreement, operative from today's date. Thank you, gentlemen.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [2.36pm]