C2004/1701, Transcript of Proceedings [2004] AIRCTrans 1797 (17 May 2004)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

O/N 11018

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER SMITH

C2004/1701

ENTERPRISE BARGAINING AWARD

Application pursuant to section 111(1)(b) of the
Act by the Community and Public Sector Union for
making of the Telecommunications Services Industry
Roping-In Award (no 5) 2004

SYDNEY

4.38 PM, TUESDAY, 4 MAY 2004

Continued from 22.3.04

PN48

THE COMMISSIONER: Any change in appearances?

PN49

MR P. INGWERSEN: I appear on behalf of the Community and Public Sector Union. Ms Anne Warner who previously appeared is unavailable this afternoon.

PN50

MR J. SIMPSON: I appear on behalf of Select Appointments Pty Ltd.

PN51

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, any objection for the application for leave to appear?

PN52

MR INGWERSEN: Commissioner, we have no objection

PN53

THE COMMISSIONER: Leave is granted. Yes, Mr Ingwersen?

PN54

MR INGWERSEN: It is probably best if I kick off the proceedings. I think, Commissioner, you are well aware as to what this is in relation to. It is the roping in award application for the Telecommunication Services Industry Award (2002) which is AWA19699. It is based on a dispute finding 7 April with Integrated Workforce Pty Ltd and Select Appointments Pty Ltd and a dispute finding of 13 November 2003 with IPA Personnel Pty Ltd. The TSI is a properly made safety net award with properly fixed wages that comply with the sections 88A and 88B of the Workplace Relations Act.

PN55

It is therefore a proper award for these companies to be roped into. We have a draft order which has been consented between the Integrated Workforce Pty Ltd and IPA Personnel but not, I understand, from Select and Mr Warner from Integrated would be providing that draft order to the Commission.

PN56

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN57

MR INGWERSEN: The union did serve the relevant notice on all the companies. If it is required, I am able provide copies of the service of that notification. If it is not required, then I will hold on to that paperwork. We are also seeking undertakings regarding - on the transcript from IPA regarding the schedule C and understand that Integrated will also provide some undertakings with regard to that same issue. Commissioner, unless it is deemed necessary, I won't provide any further submissions unless you have any further questions or there is some position from either of the companies.

PN58

THE COMMISSIONER: Now, schedule C is the - - -

PN59

MR INGWERSEN: Sorry, schedule B, the undertaking will be in relation to the schedule B, yes.

PN60

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, I see. Are all the companies that are sought to be bound, they are present today, aren't they?

PN61

MR INGWERSEN: All the companies are present today.

PN62

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Now, Mr Simpson?

PN63

MR SIMPSON: Yes, Commissioner, thank you. Unfortunately, we've only just become involved in this matter in the last hour and a half. So I don't have any instructions in relation to this claim, in fact I'm not familiar with their business. I've just had some brief discussions with the union and we just seek 1 week to allow time to advise our client and liaise with the union. I know that the matter has been around for some time. All I can say is, is that - - -

PN64

THE COMMISSIONER: Indeed. The company's late briefing of you provides no reason for me to adjourn.

PN65

MR SIMPSON: Well, except that initially our client says that - or my instructions are that they were never served with the log of claims. I don't have any further instructions in that regard.

PN66

THE COMMISSIONER: Have you seen what is - - -

PN67

MR SIMPSON: I haven't, no.

PN68

THE COMMISSIONER: Well, perhaps we should show you just to satisfy you that your clients were served. You had better demonstrate that.

PN69

MR SIMPSON: In any event, Commissioner, you were against me in adjourning the matter for 1 week, obviously I would be in a position where we would have to dispute the application and then use that time - have it listed and to use that time to - - -

PN70

THE COMMISSIONER: Don't presume you will get an adjournment, Mr Simpson?

PN71

MR SIMPSON: No, I'm not presuming. That is exactly my point.

PN72

THE COMMISSIONER: You don't have any instructions, so how could you oppose it?

PN73

MR SIMPSON: Sorry?

PN74

THE COMMISSIONER: You don't have any instructions to oppose it, do you?

PN75

MR SIMPSON: I just have instructions to seek a further week, that is right.

PN76

THE COMMISSIONER: That is right, but if I don't grant it, what position are you left in?

PN77

MR SIMPSON: Well, perhaps just to stand the matter over and get some further instructions to do that.

PN78

THE COMMISSIONER: What, for 5 minutes?

PN79

MR SIMPSON: However long it takes.

PN80

THE COMMISSIONER: How long it takes, who for, your convenience or mine?

PN81

MR SIMPSON: No, sorry, Commissioner, no, yes, I mean, just if you allow me the opportunity to get those instructions.

PN82

THE COMMISSIONER: I see. Well, you had better have a look at them, just to satisfy yourself that service was affected.

PN83

MR SIMPSON: Yes. Well, my friend has shown me a document in relation to registered post. Commissioner, all I can say is that I would appreciate - and I think 1 week would be more than enough to allow us to advise our client and that the matter would move on very quickly.

PN84

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, I follow. What do you say about that, before I call on you, Ms Streimer?

PN85

MR INGWERSEN: Commissioner, our view is that we had actually sought to have the whole matter dealt with today. You have given Select a substantial amount of time to do it.

PN86

THE COMMISSIONER: Well, you had better satisfy me that you notified them of today. I had better have a look at that material. You had better hand it up so I can see it.

PN87

MR INGWERSEN: We notified them of the hearing for today. There is a copy of a fax that was faxed to - and I also have - - -

PN88

THE COMMISSIONER: Where is the receipt? Have you got the receipt?

PN89

MR INGWERSEN: Yes, I also have a copy of the delivery confirmation advice regarding the draft order.

PN90

THE COMMISSIONER: Have you got a copy of the delivery confirmation advice of the notification of hearing?

PN91

MR INGWERSEN: Yes, Commissioner. Unfortunately the paperwork that has been provided to me, I don't have a copy of the faxed transmission advice.

PN92

THE COMMISSIONER: You have got your week, Mr Simpson.

PN93

MR SIMPSON: Thank you.

PN94

THE COMMISSIONER: If the union are going to turn up without providing of these things, you have got your week. There can be no argument about this. This happened on the last occasion and they turned up completely unprepared and they are here today unprepared. So it provides you easily with a week. Now, Ms Streimer, what is your attitude?

PN95

MS STREIMER: Thank you, Commissioner. There is a draft order that has been prepared that I believe Mr Warner has to hand up. So it may be more appropriate to hand that up first and then I can address that.

PN96

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Mr Warner.

PN97

MR WARNER: If it please the Commission. Commissioner, we would consent to the roping in of the Integrated Group Ltd to schedule B of the TSI Award 2002 on the understanding that the part of the Integrated Group Ltd that is bound is the division of the company group known as INTREC which deals with on-hire clerical and administrative people. Also that schedule B limits our respondency to the TSI Award to the State of Victoria only.

PN98

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN99

MR WARNER: This is where our on-hire personnel are employed through a host employer called Primus Telecommunications. We have no other work of engagements for casuals by companies governed by the TSI Award in this Nation. This is the understanding I've reached with Ms Alderman for the CPSU. However, should the Integrated Group provide on-hire personnel to companies covered by the TSI Award outside of Victoria, subject to the application of other awards of common rule in other Federal award, we would of course consider and act accordingly and appropriately on any future application by the CPSU to indicate a rope in to the schedule C of the TSI Award. To this end, I would tender these draft orders we have made.

PN100

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

EXHIBIT #W1 DRAFT ORDERS FROM INTEGRATED GROUP

PN101

THE COMMISSIONER: Now, Ms Streimer?

PN102

MS STREIMER: Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner, IPA is in the same position as the Integrated Group today but as per discussions with the CPSU, I put on record an undertaking that IPA Personnel does not provide service in telecommunications that would be covered by this award outside the State of Victoria and as such would limit the finding to Victoria. In addition you will notice this draft order is slightly different to previous roping in of labour hire companies to the Telecommunications Award by the absence in relation to schedule B of work performed for Telstra.

PN103

The Telstra Group of Companies has also been admitted from this draft order for the reason that IPA Personnel does not now, nor intends to provide services of the labour hire nature to Telstra. The undertaking is that if at such time IPA does provide services in relation to telecommunications to respondent companies as per the draft order or Telstra, that at such time discussions with the union would take place.

PN104

THE COMMISSIONER: Good, it is as simple as that.

PN105

MS STREIMER: There is no objection to the draft order as tendered.

PN106

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much. Well, I won't issue the award separately from hearing from Select, so Mr Simpson, if you would advise your clients position to my associate.

PN107

MR SIMPSON: Yes, Commissioner.

PN108

THE COMMISSIONER: No later than 7 working days and if the matter can be just simply dealt with that way, one group, you could have some conversations with CPSU and see whether or not agreement can be reached. At that time, I will - if there is consent to the proposed order, then I will issue the order as being consistent with the principles and first of all principles. Thank you. The matter is adjourned sine die.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [4.50pm]

INDEX

LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs

EXHIBIT #W1 DRAFT ORDERS FROM INTEGRATED GROUP PN101