C2004/49, Transcript of Proceedings [2004] AIRCTrans 1947 (27 May 2004)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

O/N 7100
AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER EAMES

C2004/49

INDEPENDENT EDUCATION UNION OF
AUSTRALIA

and

JOHN PAUL COLLEGE - O.J. OLSEN
MEMORIAL

Application under section 170LW of the Act
for settlement of dispute re alleged failure
to notify employees and union of major changes
as per paragraph 14 of the agreement and
dismissal of employees

MELBOURNE

10.00 AM, FRIDAY, 14 MAY 2004

Continued from 7.4.04

PN115

MR T. KEENAN: I appear for the Independent Education Union of Australia.

PN116

MR A. PRENDERGAST: I appear for John Paul College.

PN117

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. I take it there has been some discussions since we were last here. Perhaps I can be brought up to speed with where we are at.

PN118

MR KEENAN: Okay. Thanks, Commissioner. There has been ongoing discussions although I must say that the parties are still a fair way apart. For our part I think the union has concerns as to the genuineness of the discussions. But we think the decision had been made - was always been made. And the school was always going to progress. Although we think that we might be aided today if the Commission could assist us in discussions.

PN119

If we are not able to then reach some sort of outcome that we can both agree on we would then I guess ask for the Commission to set dates to go to a full hearing.

PN120

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. What is your view about that Mr Prendergast?

PN121

MR PRENDERGAST: Commissioner, we would welcome the assistance of the Commission in some conference proceedings. Perhaps I should, from the point of view of the school, just update the Commission as to what has transpired since the last hearing in this matter.

PN122

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, that would be helpful.

PN123

MR PRENDERGAST: It might be useful from the point of view of the discussions also just to set the scene with where the school stands in all of this. So undertakings that were given on 31 March - and perhaps we should just refer to those. Essentially to the effect that the school would undertake not to enter into any contractual arrangements pending further discussions in relation to the introduction of change clause.

PN124

Those discussions have taken place and I can present the Commission with the documents that were supplied to the employees and the unions in that regard. That might also assist in updating the Commission as to where - what discussions have taken place. Perhaps I could table those.

PN125

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you.

PN126

MR PRENDERGAST: There are two documents, Commissioner. One dated 26 April and one dated 2 April from John Paul College.

EXHIBIT #P1 DOCUMENT DATED 2 APRIL FROM JOHN PAUL COLLEGE

EXHIBIT #P2 DOCUMENT DATED 26 APRIL FROM JOHN PAUL COLLEGE

PN127

MR PRENDERGAST: Perhaps just to refer to some aspects of those documents, Commissioner. In relation to P1 you will see that the college is indicating that it has made a decision to introduce major change in the way that information, communication and technology services are provided at the school and how that affects the staff at the school. In effect, this means that the college will no longer require the services of computer network staff employed by the college, hence resulting in the termination of employment of two currently employed staff, namely, Mr Ames and Mrs Urbans.

PN128

It then goes on to set out the reasons for those proposed changes and supports the need for those changes based upon reviews that were conducted within the school and refers extensively to those reviews. That really goes to the rest of the document and I won't take the Commission through it in great detail suffice to say that those reviews can be provided should the Commission find that of assistance.

PN129

In the second document, P2, which was really provided prior to a meeting with the employees subject to this matter and prior to a discussion with those employees and the unions on 27 April. It goes on to amplify the position of the college, that the college requires - this is in the second paragraph:

PN130

...requires of its network management and operations is accountability, cost effectiveness, reliability and strong emphasis on its service to users. Also requires accurate, specific and verifiable technical information to inform management decisions whether educational, financial or administrative.

PN131

In essence the college is saying in this document that it needs to outsource those services to another provider because it is not the core business of the college and it does not believe that it is in a position where it can continue to provide those services to staff within the school and to students within the school. It goes on in the - it concludes that:

PN132

The school remains prepared to mitigate the adverse effects...

PN133

This is in the last paragraph:

PN134

...the effects of this decision on both employees by discussion of a period of notice in excess of that required in the redundancy procedures and to give consideration to any matters raised by the union in relation to the employees.

PN135

And concludes that:

PN136

Unless these discussions can resolve the situation it is the intention of the college to commence steps towards the declaration of redundancies.

PN137

And that is, really, Commissioner, the situation that the college now finds itself in. It does need to move to the next step. It has had discussions in accordance with the introduction of change clause. It gave undertakings that nothing would occur during that interim period. The time is fast approaching where those undertakings can no longer be sustained and, indeed, I am advised that within the next fortnight, unless there is some change, it will need to move beyond those undertakings and enter into some contractual services particularly having regard to the fact that the college has not had the benefit of any employees in this area since the two employees finished work and commenced WorkCover and that was in March.

PN138

So for that period of time it is coping but that can't continue for long. So from the school's point of view it does need to move to the redundancy procedures and intends to do that next week unless proceedings today can assist in resolving the matter. As indicated in the documentation the school is willing to assist in any way to mitigate the adverse effects of this unfortunate situation, however, it does need to move and will do so within the next fortnight and can give notice that it can no longer be bound by those undertakings within the next fortnight. And to that end we would be assisted with a conference before the Commission to try and settle this matter if that is at all possible prior to those proceedings.

PN139

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you. Anything you want to add any further, Mr Keenan?

PN140

MR KEENAN: There is just one thing. I mean, in response to some of the submissions put we take a different view but I think we can probably deal with those in conference. But I would need to point out that whilst we are still in grievance the grievance procedures under the award require that business remains as usual until the grievance is resolved, so we would certainly be opposing the declaration of redundancies next week and would rely on the grievance procedure to do that. If the matter is not resolved we are still in grievance and the grievance procedure clearly states that until the grievance is resolved the situation remains as is. Thanks, Commissioner.

PN141

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. On that basis I will adjourn these proceedings into a conference.

NO FURTHER PROCEEDINGS RECORDED [10.10am]

INDEX

LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs

EXHIBIT #P1 DOCUMENT DATED 2 APRIL FROM JOHN PAUL COLLEGE PN127
EXHIBIT #P2 DOCUMENT DATED 26 APRIL FROM JOHN PAUL COLLEGE PN127