C2004/3359, Transcript of Proceedings [2004] AIRCTrans 2354 (24 June 2004)

AUSCRIPT PTY LTD
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ADMINISTRATOR APPOINTED

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

O/N 11844

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER CARGILL

C2004/3359

AUTOMOTIVE, FOOD, METALS, ENGINEERING,
PRINTING AND KINDRED INDUSTRIES UNION

and

FFC COURIER

Notification pursuant to section 99 of the Act
of an industrial dispute re alleged redundancy

SYDNEY

11.10 AM, TUESDAY, 15 JUNE 2004

Continued from 12.05.04

PN89

THE COMMISSIONER: I don't think there is any change of appearances since the last occasion, so who wants to go first?

PN90

MR TAMPLIN: Not from the employer's side.

PN91

MR MORRISON: I had better at least introduce the others that are with me here today apart from MS PERKINS who I believe you know. I've got MR G. KILLORN on my far right, MS C. COLE and MR J. THOMPSON behind me.

PN92

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you and it's your application Mr Morrison even though it was Mr Tamplin who actually asked for it to be brought back on.

PN93

MR MORRISON: Yes the purpose of asking for it to be brought back on, there was a meeting between the company and Mr Paul Bastion, the State Secretary of the union, and there has been some discussions and as a result I believe Mr Tamplin wishes to make a statement to the Commission.

PN94

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Yes Mr Tamplin?

PN95

MR TAMPLIN: Thank you Commissioner. I thank my friend. The company's position is that there has been a long downturn of work of what is described as the ad and make up section or area of the Courier newspapers. That is the area that receives job bags and emails and digital data for the make up of advertising and in the main real estate advertising as currently done for the publications of the Wentworth Courier, Southern Courier, Inner Western Courier and the Wentworth Central Courier. That downturn of work is exhibited in some of the documentation we have handed up. For example, and I don't have this document as marked, I think they were marked for information only, but in the Wentworth Central real estate the work of ad desk on 23/10/2003 was 42 percent of the work and the work supplied was 57 percent. At 6/5/2004 the work at ad desk was 100 percent of the work and there was none for others supplied.

PN96

There are consistent figures for the retail area as well. For the actual total for the Wentworth, ad desk commenced on 23/10/2003 at 28.57 percent of the work. The work supplied in other forms was 71.43 percent. Those figures are in essence totally reversed now. Ad desk is running at 78.13 percent and supplied other is 21.88 percent. The decline in work is dramatic. Ad desk is an automated system. As to the Wentworth real estate, ad desk started off on 17/12/2003 at 54.17 percent, supplied other ads was 45.83 percent. The percentage is now ad desk 93.3 percent and supplied other 6.97 percent. These were tabled in documentation given to my colleagues and put on the Commission's file if I remember.

PN97

The Wentworth retail has gone in the same direction with ad desk commencing on 17/12/2003 at 34.38 percent for total ads, the supply running at 65.63 percent. Ad desk as of 5/5/2004 had grown to 64.47 percent and the supplied other ads had declined 35.53. The total for the Wentworth had gone from ad desk being on 17/12/2003 42.86 percent and supplied other at 57.14 percent to now being ad desk at 85.2 percent and supplied other 14.8 percent. Those figures are consistent across each of the mastheads Commissioner.

PN98

It is our submission that based on these figures that the downturn of work is irrefutable and in the main not argued by the employees who carry out the work. Following that research and analysis and based upon the production and operation requirements of the company as applicable to that particular area of work, that is the ad make-up area, the company has made a decision that it no longer wishes the job of some of the employees that they are doing to be done by anyone else.

PN99

The company has advised the employees through their delegates and through the union that it was seeking expressions of interest in voluntary redundancy, however the expressions of interest have been small. The representatives of the union raised the issue that the redundancies were to take place prior to the next EBA wage adjustment and if the company considered that the EBA increase form part of the redundancy payment then it would consider recommending the acceptance of the redundancies to the employees. The representatives also raised the issue that they wanted to have the company put in the transcript words consistent with the award which will be done.

PN100

The terms of the agreement and the pay increase contained in that agreement will be applied to the redundancy provisions. That is if there is a four percent increase in the EBA it will be applied to the redundancy provisions. Consistent with the second part of that the company makes the point consistent with clause 4.2.5(a) of the Graphic Arts Award. The employer has made a decision that the employer no longer wishes the job of some of its employees that they have been doing to be done by anyone else and this is not due to the ordinary and customary turnover of labour.

PN101

I am advised that on that basis the AMWU, while not accepting redundancies as a principal position or doctrine, the AMWU also perceives no reason to intervene or oppose the restructure of work or the proposed redundancies and does not dispute the declining work and the evidence put forward by the company and the power of the company to make that decision. Further in discussions with Ms Perkins, State Secretary of the AMWU the printing division and the company, a proposed assessment criteria for those employees who would best fit the continuing employment of employees was put forward for the consideration of the AMWU and the employees. It was given to all employees and to the AMWU. The company was advised that the AMWU and the employees effected would not participate in the analysis and the words were "an analysis of their own redundancy".

PN102

As a result the company has put together a selection criteria that it views as appropriate as to its operations for the future and we will now utilise that criteria. It follows that with the shortfall in the expressions of interest for voluntary redundancy the company must now move to consider forced redundancy and will use the selection criteria. That process we anticipate will occur quickly and the employees who fall out of the applied selection criteria for the continuing operations of the company will be made redundant. The employees who will be made redundant will be supplied with additional training and this has been requested by their delegates on the site. That additional training will be at the company expense. Unless you have things to raise with me Commissioner I think that covers our side of it and my friend can rise to his feet.

PN103

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Tamplin could I just clarify with you, in relation to the pay increases, so they are increases that are due as of 1 July I think this year, is that the situation?

PN104

MR TAMPLIN: That's correct.

PN105

THE COMMISSIONER: People would be paid out at the rates as they would be as at 1 July, is that what you are saying?

PN106

MR TAMPLIN: That's correct.

PN107

THE COMMISSIONER: Right, thank you. Yes Mr Morrison?

PN108

MR MORRISON: Yes Commissioner. There are a couple of points and Mr Tamplin may be able to assist us in some of them. Firstly we are still unsure of the number of voluntary versus involuntary redundancies. That figure has not been supplied to the union and is something we would seek because Commissioner as you are aware the processes of the union do require us to take this position that has been put by Mr Tamplin to our membership. Ms Perkins has informed me that she's available to do that on Thursday at the very earliest this week and so we should be able to have a formal response to Mr Tamplin's submissions as early as Thursday afternoon I would suggest and obviously that's a position that our members have to decide no matter what anyone else in the union may be of the opinion. It has always been a tradition of this union that our members determine the union's position.

PN109

So we would appreciate though that information from Mr Tamplin, the voluntary versus involuntary numbers and hopefully we would be able to have a transcript of today's hearing to take to the members so there can be no doubt as to what has been said. A response will be forthcoming on that day. If you have any questions as to what has been said I will try and answer them especially with the people I have with me here today.

PN110

THE COMMISSIONER: Was that the only issue? I thought you said there were a couple of issues, Mr Morrison.

PN111

MR MORRISON: Those issues would be very much dependent on what was said in the transcript and that will be explained at the meeting but what we are pleased to see is that Mr Tamplin has used the actual wording for redundancy from the award so that is obviously of greater clarity for us and we are absolutely sure what those words mean and there can be no doubt.

PN112

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Mr Tamplin, are you able to respond to that issue?

PN113

MR TAMPLIN: Those expressions of interest in voluntary redundancy were guaranteed confidentiality. I would have to seek some instructions on those.

PN114

THE COMMISSIONER: I got the impression that Mr Morrison just wants your numbers, I presume.

PN115

MR TAMPLIN: We think we can probably do the numbers, yes. There would be no problem with that.

PN116

THE COMMISSIONER: I think that's appropriate. I don't think it's useful if individuals names are used.

PN117

MR TAMPLIN: We guaranteed the confidentiality.

PN118

THE COMMISSIONER: I didn't get the impression that was what was being sought. I think the union just wants to know if it's 4 or 6 or whatever.

PN119

MR MORRISON: Just the plain numbers, Commissioner, just so our members when they meet on Thursday are absolutely clear what is being spoken about and the numbers involved.

PN120

THE COMMISSIONER: Would you be able to provide that, Mr Tamplin, to Mr Morrison either afterwards or - - -

PN121

MR TAMPLIN: We can do that; Mr Morrison or Ms Perkins?

PN122

THE COMMISSIONER: Ms Perkins or whoever.

PN123

MS PERKINS: I'll be doing the meeting.

PN124

THE COMMISSIONER: You'll be doing the meeting, that's right. It probably makes more sense if you've got the figures. Was there something else you wished to say, Mr Tamplin?

PN125

MR TAMPLIN: No, Commissioner.

PN126

THE COMMISSIONER: Maybe it's appropriate then if I just keep the file for the time being. It's your application, Mr Morrison, or your organisation's application so I'll ask if you could perhaps let my associate know next week as to what is happening, if the issue has been resolved.

PN127

MR MORRISON: We will give a written report-back to your associate and then whatever requests or position we determine to take I'll include that in my letter and a copy, of course, to Mr Tamplin.

PN128

THE COMMISSIONER: Right, if you could do that. Could I just ask Mr Tamplin one thing; you might recall that you had lodged a section 127 some time ago. I in fact hadn't listed it.

PN129

MR TAMPLIN: We indicated we wouldn't press that matter.

PN130

THE COMMISSIONER: That's fine. I've just still got it here. Is that all right if it goes into the archive land or whatever happens to such things?

PN131

MR TAMPLIN: I am happy with that.

PN132

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. It's just that it is still with this file, that's all.

PN133

MR TAMPLIN: We would seek that it remain on the file for the present until the matter is resolved, Commissioner.

PN134

THE COMMISSIONER: Although I would have thought if you're going to run it you'd need to make a new application.

PN135

MR MORRISON: Commissioner, it's my understanding a 127 order has to be heard as soon as practicable. This either is or it isn't. It's not something that is a sword of Damocles.

PN136

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, I think that's the case. I will just leave it there but I suspect that - I hope you won't have to use anything but if you did I can't see really resurrecting that one.

PN137

MR TAMPLIN: We would initiate another matter.

PN138

THE COMMISSIONER: I hope you won't, I'm sure that won't come to that. I will order that the transcript be made available to both parties as soon as possible. Thank you. The matter is now adjourned generally.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [11.25am]