C2004/2419, Transcript of Proceedings [2004] AIRCTrans 2358 (24 June 2004)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

O/N 11869

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER THATCHER

C2004/2419

CPSU, THE COMMUNITY AND
PUBLIC SECTOR UNION

and

AUSTRALIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION

Application under section 170LW of the Act
for settlement of dispute re issuing of a
Performance Improvement Plan to an employee

SYDNEY

10.05 AM, TUESDAY 15 JUNE 2004

Continued from 14.5.04

PN138

THE COMMISSIONER: This is the resumption of the section 170LW application by the CPSU. Can I have appearances please just for the record?

PN139

MR G. THOMSON: I appear for the Community and Public Sector Union.

PN140

MR D. SMITH: I appear for the ABC and with me is MS J. BATE.

PN141

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Yes, Mr Thomson, I understand there's been some discussions or attempt at discussions since we've last met.

PN142

MR THOMSON: There have been a number of discussions. I'm not particularly good on remembering precise dates and whatever. What we attempted to do in some of the discussions is to explore alternative employment for Joan. To cut a long story short, those discussions broke down over the formation of what Mr Smith referred to as a deed. He wanted a deed of agreement. We found the terms of that proposed deed unacceptable, so we then went back into further discussions to look at Joan going back into the news and current affairs position.

PN143

THE COMMISSIONER: Ms Coughlan is back at work in some form, is she?

PN144

MR THOMSON: Yes, she's back in another job, but that other job is in fact only lasting for, I think, another two weeks or one week. But I think we're all of the view and I think this includes the corporation as well, that the next step really would be to take Joan back to her old job. It's not our preferred position. I think we would still, the CPSU and Joan, would prefer to see Joan placed in another job, but not under the conditions that the ABC sought to apply to the transfer. So we're back here now trying to look at the conditions under which Joan would be returning to her position in news and current affairs.

PN145

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Thomson. Mr Smith, could I hear from you please?

PN146

MR SMITH: I just take issue on a couple of points there, Commissioner. Basically what Graham is saying is correct, that Joan is temporarily placed in a position at a lower level, we're maintaining her salary at this point. We thought we had reached an agreed position on an opportunity for Joan to relinquish her current position and for the ABC then to seek to find a suitable position at the same or a lower level. A draft deed of agreement was prepared which the CPSU has rejected. We were seeking, in a sense, to apply the terms that were achieved, I think, through a conciliation proceeding on 14 May before yourself.

PN147

One of the stumbling blocks there, as I understand it, was the process of resolving the previous job plan and the future job plan for Joan. So, Commissioner, we could see some value in perhaps pursuing further discussion with respect to trying to find a way through this process either through Joan trying to revitalise the deal, for want of a better way of describing it, that we thought we had reached or, failing that, to then look at how do we resolve this impasse over the job planning process and for Joan to return to her substantive position.

PN148

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Smith. What I was thinking about is what is the way forward to resolving this, this being two fairly lengthy conferences before the Commission? So without going into the merits of Ms Coughlan's case, what I propose to do is I propose to briefly adjourn and I would like to see Mr Thomson and Mr Smith in my chambers to discuss a way forward for proceeding with these Commission proceedings.

SHORT ADJOURNMENT [10.10am]

RESUMED [12.55pm]

PN149

THE COMMISSIONER: During the time when we were last altogether, I did hold discussions jointly with Mr Thomson and Mr Smith to see if we could come up with some process for moving the resolution of this matter forward. It did go on a little longer than I thought and probably covered a little bit more territory than I thought. Where we are up to is, I think, examining a possible three pronged approach that may resolve the matter and what I've asked both Mr Smith and Mr Thomson is to come back and talk to the other persons who are representing the various parties to think about whether or not we can formulate a form of words which might correspond with those three elements.

PN150

So the idea is that those discussions could take place generally with you. We would break for lunch. Around about two o'clock, I would resume with Mr Thomson and Mr Smith and have a look at where each of you have got and see if we can then put all of the suggestions together into a common form of words. Then we would meet again as a larger group and see if those words would have the net effect. The three elements are only in general terms at the moment, but one of them is to do something about this underlying industrial issue by resolving it and by making progress in terms of 23.2.1 of the agreement on developing guidelines on how to address performance issues when a job plan has been rolled over.

PN151

So putting aside the circumstances of Ms Coughlan, those guidelines must be developed in order that issues of performance when they arise can be addressed quickly and appropriately when a job plan has just been rolled over. What I had in mind was the words would say something like that the parties would be directed forthwith and as a matter of priority to address those guidelines. However, to ensure that there is no slippage on that, that I would set down on 22 July, when I was next in Sydney, for hearing if necessary what those guidelines or differences in respect of those guidelines with a view to making some recommendation.

PN152

Now it would be my wish and hope that that could be avoided by agreement on the guidelines being reached prior to that time. The other elements are that within the next two weeks a 2004/2005 job plan would be developed in respect of Ms Coughlan's resumption in her normal position. But that would be a fine balance between her new immediate supervisor having the opportunity to discuss with her and resolve with her hopefully issues of working arrangements and current expectations including skills development, but also taking into account the performance issues which were raised with Ms Coughlan by Mr O'Byrne prior to his departure from Adelaide.

PN153

So it has to be, yes, a new, a fresh approach by the new immediate supervisor but also not ignoring, in no way ignoring, the performance issues which may have been raised previously. The third approach is that a system for the normal feedback and review process in respect of how Ms Coughlan's performance is going in terms of the 23.5.1 of the agreement and that might commence within another eight weeks after the four weeks. that, of course, wouldn't prevent the normal ongoing feedback occurring thereafter.

PN154

So the idea is if you could each talk amongst yourselves and we could resume at two o'clock. I could resume with - just to make it easier with smaller numbers, possibly with Mr Thomson, Mr Smith, in my chambers to see if we can come up with a first draft anyway or identify and then we can resume as a larger group. Is that clear to everybody? So therefore, we'll adjourn until two o'clock on that basis. Thank you very much.

NO FURTHER PROCEEDINGS RECORDED [1.02pm]