AG2004/5017, Transcript of Proceedings [2004] AIRCTrans 2390 (25 June 2004)

AUSCRIPT PTY LTD
(Administrator Appointed)
ABN 76 082 664 220

Level 4, 179 Queen St MELBOURNE Vic 3000
(GPO Box 1114 MELBOURNE Vic 3001)
Tel:[phone] Fax:[phone]

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N 7476

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER MANSFIELD

C2004/5017

CONCILIATION IN RESPECT OF
AGREEMENTS

Application under section 170NA(1) of the Act
by Electrix Pty Limited and Others re negotiation
of a proposed agreement

MELBOURNE

2.00 PM, WEDNESDAY, 16 JUNE 2004

PN1

MR F. KENNEDY: I appear for the National Electrical and Communications Association, appearing on behalf of the five employers notified, and I have representatives from each of those employers here with me.

PN2

MR G. ARNETT: I appear on behalf of the CEPU, together with MR W. HAYES.

PN3

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Now, we are able to go to a bigger courtroom if people would be more comfortable in that. Would you prefer that the employers be up with you, Mr Kennedy, or are they comfortable where they are?

PN4

MR KENNEDY: We would prefer a bigger room if we could, Commissioner.

PN5

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. We will move to courtroom 12 then straight away. Thank you.

SHORT ADJOURNMENT [2.02pm]

RESUMED [2.09pm]

PN6

MR KENNEDY: Thanks, Commissioner. I represent five electrical contractors who provide line work of services into the electricity distribution companies, that is five directly and another eight indirectly, approximately 750 employees. We have been negotiating with the ETU in pursuit of a new enterprise agreement since the latter half of last year. The ETU has notified a bargaining period and has bans in place, as it does with the electricity distribution companies. Those bans are still in place with respect to my members. They have been suspended, as the Commissioner knows, with respect to some of the electricity distribution companies.

PN7

We have negotiated at length with the ETU, and most of the issues between us are resolvable. The two main issues between us are the quantum of the wage increase and the 36 hour week which the ETU, as you know, are pursuing strongly. Our issue is that in advance of the electricity distribution companies making a settlement with the ETU, that we are not able to meet the ETU demands with respect to a 36 hour week, and that is where we find ourselves at the moment.

PN8

The bans are having impacts in three respects. First of all there is a business impact. The work that is being banned is work which my members need to be able to sustain their business, it is work that is dealt out by the distribution companies, therefore they are being severely financially disadvantaged while the bans are on. Secondly, there is a customer impact, and we sought leave to intervene in proceedings before Senior Deputy President Lacy here several weeks back, where the government outlined, the state government outlined the impact on the economy that the bans were having.

PN9

Whilst the three electricity distribution companies have got the bans off, our members don't, so the ability of those companies to restore services to a lot of premises which were off, and there were 750 reported by the government, is limited. If the bans were removed that work would be hastened and people would get back onto supply more quickly. And thirdly, there is an impact on the employees themselves. One of the bans is on overtime, therefore there is no overtime being worked to speak of, and employees are losing money.

PN10

So what we seek is (a) that the Commission assist us with negotiating with the ETU so that we can reach some understandings about the way forward, and secondly, that the Commission assist us by us seeking to have the bans removed so that whilst we are negotiating in good faith with the assistance of the Commission, work can go on as normal. And we would undertake to meet the ETU with the Commission whenever and wherever it was necessary, but would be very pleased if the bans could be removed with the assistance of the Commission.

PN11

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Kennedy, is it fair to say that the companies themselves broadly - I am not saying they are all acting in concert, but it is almost a one in all in situation, if one company was to agree to 36 hours it would be likely that most other companies would also agree?

PN12

MR KENNEDY: The reality is, Commissioner, that if the majority of the electricity distribution companies agreed to a 36 hour week in whatever shape or form, the majority of the contractors would also reach that agreement, yes.

PN13

THE COMMISSIONER: Would probably agree as well.

PN14

MR KENNEDY: Yes. Now, there are differences between the agreements individually that they would make, but in the essence with the wages and the hours they are quite comparable.

PN15

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. Depending on the cost outcome for the companies for themselves at the end of the day?

PN16

MR KENNEDY: That is right, there would be a cost outcome so that the hours decrease, if it happened, would be traded off against any wage increase.

PN17

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, good Mr Kennedy, thanks. Mr Arnett, do you want to put anything on the record as a statement from the ETU, and then we might go into conference?

PN18

MR ARNETT: If the Commission pleases, I will be fairly brief. First of all, we see no reason why these companies can't settle their enterprise agreement. It is after all enterprise bargaining, and they are after all enterprises. We have seen some companies who aren't a member of NECA very far down the track to reaching agreement, some contracting companies that are in the similar line of business to these ones, and we have those on board.

PN19

We are very close to an agreed document with these companies and have been for some time, I suppose, and going back to early days - and this argument has been raining for some time - we were told that if you reach agreement, one of the distribution businesses, we would come on board. We have succeeded in doing that, and we still haven't got them on board. Then we hear, if you get two we will all come on board, and then we hear, if we get a majority of the distribution businesses we will - - -

PN20

THE COMMISSIONER: Do you have one at the moment, Mr Arnett?

PN21

MR ARNETT: Alinta has signed, sealed and almost delivered through this Commission.

PN22

THE COMMISSIONER: So you are talking about the distribution companies or the - - -

PN23

MR ARNETT: Distribution business, Alinta, or old United Energy.

PN24

THE COMMISSIONER: Alinta, yes.

PN25

MR ARNETT: Including the 36 hour week. It happens to be days off. We have made - - -

PN26

THE COMMISSIONER: Is that in addition to Agility?

PN27

MR ARNETT: Agility is yet unsettled.

PN28

THE COMMISSIONER: Not settled?

PN29

MR ARNETT: Alinta, which is the old UE, has been settled for some time, signed I think a week or so ago, so all signed off there.

PN30

THE COMMISSIONER: The three power companies that were the subject of proceedings here, are they moving along satisfactorily or have they become more difficult?

PN31

MR ARNETT: Well, satisfactorily would have been a couple of weeks ago, I suppose, but they are moving along. We are continuing discussions with them. I think, as Mr Hayes indicated, there is some further conferencing this afternoon with TXU, we are meeting SPI later in the week, Powercor, some talks will happen tomorrow, so, you know, it is moving along. I wouldn't say quick enough or anyone really, but it is moving along. So we see these enterprises, as we have reached agreement with some of the parent companies to these companies in other areas on a 36 hour week is sort of a simple thing to do and, you know, our position is, we are quite willing to lift our bans and limitations once we reach agreement.

PN32

As we say, it is an enterprise and it is an enterprise by enterprise system. Although we understand that all these companies by mutual agreement, if you like, tend to go down the road of a pattern style agreement, which is good for the industry as we see and as they see. We have also, further to that, made the offer since reaching, or since the other unions in the industry have reached agreement of what we call the Powercor deal, made an offer to all the companies within that gamut, if you like. We are prepared to reach agreement. Some of the companies represented here today are probably a little bit further than some others. We don't see it as an impediment that their clients are telling them not to sign onto a 36 hour week.

PN33

THE COMMISSIONER: Has there been any difficulty in actually meeting with the companies individually, Mr Arnett, and talking through the issues?

PN34

MR ARNETT: There is certainly no difficulties we have found. We have either met through the NECA group on a number of occasions, we have had discussions with individual companies and, you know, all of the contractors aren't represented here, or for all intents and purposes they are, that we have met with some of them on the, you know, individual basis as well, and we are prepared to continue to do that. If the Commission pleases.

PN35

THE COMMISSIONER: Now, what the companies are seeking basically is that the ETU ideally suspend its bans whilst the discussions are going on with the power companies, or at least moderate them somewhat to allow the three areas that they are impacting on that were described by Mr Kennedy, while the discussions are going on with the power companies.

PN36

Now, as you are aware, there is a report back to this Commission in early July in respect of the three power companies, at which time there will be an assessment made as to where things are and whether everybody has been bargaining in a fair dinkum way, and things will be taken from there. And that is the sort of date that Mr Kennedy would be looking for, I expect, to have some moderation of the bans on the contractors. What is the ETU position on that? Well, I am asking you basically on the record here at this stage, but we will be talking about it a bit more in conference as well.

PN37

MR ARNETT: Yes. Well, while we are on the record, our position is that it is an enterprise bargaining situation with each separate company that is represented here today, and we will continue our industrial action with those companies until we reach agreement.

PN38

THE COMMISSIONER: So you wouldn't be prepared to moderate your bans at this stage, is what you are saying?

PN39

MR ARNETT: Certainly not. But I am sure we can discuss that in conference as well.

PN40

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, good. Okay, thanks, Mr Arnett. Mr Hayes, no more?

PN41

MR HAYES: No, nothing on record, your Honour. I will put it in conference.

PN42

THE COMMISSIONER: Fine, thank you. Mr Kennedy, you are happy to go into conference?

PN43

MR KENNEDY: Yes, Commissioner.

PN44

THE COMMISSIONER: Good. We will go off the record into conference if that is the case.

NO FURTHER PROCEEDINGS RECORDED