C2004/1075, Transcript of Proceedings [2004] AIRCTrans 2645 (13 July 2004)

AUSCRIPT PTY LTD
ABN 76 082 664 220

ADMINISTRATOR APPOINTED

Level 7, ANZ House 13 Grenfell St ADELAIDE SA 5000
Tel:[phone] Fax:[phone]

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

O/N 1902

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT O'CALLAGHAN

C2004/1075

LIQUOR, HOSPITALITY AND MISCELLANEOUS
UNION

and

BRIDGESTONE AUSTRALIA LIMITED

Notification pursuant to section 99 of the Act
re close down and requirement for employees to
take annual leave

ADELAIDE

1.30 PM, THURSDAY, 1 JULY 2004

PN1

MS R. BUCKLER: I appear for the Liquor, Hospitality and Miscellaneous Workers' Union. Appearing with me is MR CHRIS FIELD, assistant secretary of the union. Also present with us today are shop stewards, MR GORDON CRAIG and MR ANDREW WHITE.

PN2

MS J. DENLEY: I appear for Bridgestone in this matter and I have with me MR K. ALLERY and MR J. SIGNORIELLO.

PN3

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you. Ms Buckler?

PN4

MS BUCKLER: Thank you Senior Deputy President. This is a section 99 dispute pursuant to the Workplace Relations Act (1996). The relevant industrial instrument with respect to this matter is the Plastics, Resins, Synthetic, Rubbers (Bridgestone) Consolidated Award. Sir, this matter is about a company close down that is to take effect from 12 to 16 July this year. Sir, if it please the Commission, I will just go through a background to the matter in dispute. On 10 May a factory notice was issued to workers advising of a proposed plant shut-down from 12 to 16 July. I seek leave to tender a copy of that notice.

EXHIBIT #LHMWU1 NOTICE DATED 10/05/2004

PN5

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes?

PN6

MS BUCKLER: Thank you. The factory notice gives intention of the week close down and the relevant arrangements for the various shifts. The reason for the close down is stated: that the inventory levels are too high and also that GMH Holden and Toyota would also be having a close down during the relevant periods. The shop stewards were notified during 10 May and then at the change of shifts employees were notified again about the intention to close down but were directed, I am instructed, that the questions were to be taken from the floor and that all matters were to be taken up at a departmental level.

PN7

From that period onwards, the union and the company have exchanged various correspondence and newsletters with respect to the closing down of the plant and the Commission can take it as said that the LHMU would be opposing any close down of the plant at that stage. The matter was raised at a single bargaining unit meeting on 13 May. By way of history, Senior Deputy President, one only close down has been effected at the plant and that was during 2003. You may recall that the Easter and Anzac Day holidays were in very close proximity last year.

PN8

There was an agreed process that was entered into on how to handle a proposed close down during that time. Employees were surveyed about their response to the proposed close down. Seventy employees initially opposed stating that they wanted to be able to take their leave in accordance with custom and practice and in accordance with their award provisions. At the end of that process the number of 70 employees, I am instructed, was reduced to 20 and work was provided for those employees who did not want to have the close down imposed upon them.

PN9

With respect to this close down of this year, the employees again want to engage in the same procedure, that is either a survey or a voluntary process be engaged into. Employees having identified various reasons, personal reasons, as to why, they say, that they could be usefully employed during the close down. Subject of a close down had featured in the 2003 enterprise bargaining negotiations but that matter was withdrawn. It was not an issue that was progressed any further between the parties and the 2003 enterprise bargaining negotiations were contentious to say the least but that matter was finally withdrawn.

PN10

Bridgestone did correspond with the union on 20 May confirming that a close down would go ahead, that the close down, the annual leave - employees would be required to take their annual leave as a vehicle for the close down during this period and that long service leave could also be taken and also some pro rata leave. Deputy President, I might add that this is not a complete close down. There will be some areas of the plant that will still be operating. The company did indicate to us at that time that they would look at extenuating circumstances of the impact on employees. On 1 June, the LMHU wrote to the company identifying that there would be 81 cases of hardship for a close down to be imposed during the July period.

PN11

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: What are the total numbers of employees?

PN12

MS BUCKLER: Over 500.

PN13

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you.

PN14

MS BUCKLER: Historically, close downs have operated at Christmas time when the plant will close down for 2 weeks and employees take their - - -

PN15

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Ms Buckler, I thought you told me there had only been one close down?

PN16

MS BUCKLER: Sorry, I was going to go on to explain there had been one close down outside of what is normally the annual close down at Christmas. Perhaps the use of the terms can be a little misleading but most employees are required to take their annual leave at Christmas time. They have a grant of 4 weeks. They take 2 at Christmas time and then the remainder of the leave is taken by agreement throughout the year. That has been the custom and the practice of the plant, save and except for last year when a close down was put into operation during that Easter period, and it was effectively for 3 days, given the public holidays.

PN17

It is the union's submission that the imposing the shut down in the July period as contemplated by the employer will cause hardship to a number of employees. We did submit with the filing of the dispute, 56 statements - I believe one was actually signed but left blank as to the reasons - so 55 statements of employees' hardship and they have been provided to the company. We say that the test to be applied is one of hardship to the employees not one of extenuating circumstances and although hardship is not defined in the award in any respect, generally not having a defined meaning the award it is usually thought to be determined in relation to certain circumstances so we have identified 55 circumstances with which we want the employer to take into consideration in not imposing a close down for those employees. We say that is a different test to one of extenuating circumstances.

PN18

It is our further submission that the close down is contrary to the way annual leave has operated historically in the past, save and except for that Easter period of last year, that employees were comforted by the fact that having experienced one close down at Easter last year and then the issue of a close down was defeated during the enterprise bargaining process that they would not be subject to close downs in the future, that if they were, for some reason, notwithstanding the defeat of the close down in the enterprise bargaining, that having participated in a voluntary process previously that that would be the process that the employer would engage with respect to these circumstances.

PN19

Notwithstanding that the requisite notice has been given about the close down, we submit that it is still unreasonable for some employees who have made alternative plans for their annual leave, to make or undo the plans that many have with respect to the use of their annual leave for the remainder of the year and what we say is in equity and good conscience that the company should genuinely consider the various reasons outlined in the statements provided to them and consider again their position about imposing a shut down for those employees that we have identified to them. If the Commissioner pleases.

PN20

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: You may well have been living with this matter for quite some time but I have not been so I will need to catch up on a number of issues. First of all, you referenced negotiations towards an enterprise agreement.

PN21

MS BUCKLER: Yes sir.

PN22

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: There is no enterprise agreement alluded to in the notice of dispute.

PN23

MS BUCKLER: No.

PN24

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: First of all, am I to understand that the enterprise agreement does not contain - the current enterprise agreement does not contain any reference to the issue of a close down?

PN25

MS BUCKLER: That is right. It makes a reference to the change in working hours but it does not make a reference to I suppose what is historically known as close down which were a feature of these types of agreements.

PN26

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It has no provisions that run contrary to those set in the award with respect to the taking of annual leave?

PN27

MS BUCKLER: That is right.

PN28

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Now, secondly - - -

PN29

MS BUCKLER: Excuses me a moment please, Deputy President.

PN30

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Certainly.

PN31

MS BUCKLER: If I just may correct my submissions, Senior Deputy President. The enterprise agreement does not make a direct reference to the issue of a stand down but it does make references to the - about the method of work during - and the change of method of work during the enterprise agreement and if they were to be changed then they would be done through the consultative process.

PN32

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I take it from that you say the consultative process has not been followed?

PN33

MS BUCKLER: Well, the simple answer to that would be "no". A notice has been issued. There has been discussion surrounding the issue of the notice but we would say there has been no relative consultation in the manner in which other issues would have been dealt with.

PN34

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Has that matter of a concern over compliance or adherence to the certified agreement, been the subject of discussions between the union and the employer? I presume that the certified agreement provides for a dispute resolution mechanism which establishes a number of steps, one of which would be discussions between the union and the employer.

PN35

MS BUCKLER: Certainly the matter has been in discussions between the union and the employer by way of correspondence and it has been mainly through correspondence. It hasn't been as a result of, I understand, any meetings between the union and the employer. Sorry, I stand corrected. It was raised at the single bargaining unit on 13 May as an issue at that level.

PN36

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I see. All right, then can I take you then to the 50-odd statements of employees? It looks to me as if I have been fortunate enough to obtain the original of those statements.

PN37

MS BUCKLER: You have, yes.

PN38

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Have those statements been provided to Bridgestone?

PN39

MS BUCKLER: They have.

PN40

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Have they been the subject of discussions with Bridgestone?

PN41

MS BUCKLER: No. I did, once the dispute was filed as a matter of courtesy, I telephoned Mr Allery to let him know that the dispute notice had been filed and that I would fax to him the 56 statements, just to alert him that his fax machine was going to be busy and also with an invitation for him to, having received those statements, to contact me at any time to discuss them prior to coming today.

PN42

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Am I correct, if I read through those statements, in understanding that they are statements made in accordance with clause 47.7.3 of the award?

PN43

MS BUCKLER: That is right. The Senior Deputy President would have noticed that the matters are raised and that there is a provision under that clause for the matters to be dealt with by the Industrial Registrar. As I understand it, the Industrial Registrar, with respect to this award, has not dealt with these matters before and it was indicated that a letter should be written to the Industrial Registrar asking for the matter to be dealt with. In the meantime, we also thought that we would ask the Commission to assist in terms of a section 99 dispute as well. So these matters at this stage have not gone to the Industrial Registrar but we did not think it would be necessary to produce two statements.

PN44

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Armed with that information let me just come back a couple of steps. I am having a little difficulty properly comprehending what the union is putting to me. I need to clarify that. It seems that there is a potential argument to say Bridgestone are not empowered, either by virtue of the consultative provisions in the agreement, or by virtue of the award, to allow or require a shut down of this nature.

PN45

There appears to be a second argument which might sit alongside the first one or might be quite independent which would be founded on the provisions of clause 47.7.3 such that whilst the shut down may occur, the employees may be effectively exempted from that shut down by virtue of a ruling on the part of the Industrial Registrar. Now, can you clarify for me as to whether one or both of those apply or if neither apply, then how have a got it wrong?

PN46

MS BUCKLER: No, the Senior Deputy President has characterised it correctly. Our primary argument being that, notwithstanding the award's ability to allow the shut down, we are saying that there are 55 cases of hardship that should be examined before enforcing that shut down on those persons. The secondary argument would be that the consultation process with respect to the EBA and change of work practices has not been followed and what we are asking is for the Commission to assist the parties in dealing with the 55 requests.

PN47

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: If that is the case, then what type of assistance are you looking for from me? It occurs to me that you might be asking me to effectively replace the role designated in clause 47.7.3 of the award to the Industrial Registrar, or that I might simply refer these 50-off matters to the Registrar.

PN48

MS BUCKLER: Sir, we say you have greater powers than the Industrial Registrar to deal with these matters. You have the power to settle the dispute between the parties. The powers of the industrial registrar are a little more limiting than that. So there is a dispute between the parties and we are asking you to help settle that dispute by examining those 55 cases with us and trying to determine - and if the Senior Deputy President has looked at them, there may be some that would appear more meritorious than others and I have done that examination myself and without prejudice to the parties. I mean, I think there are some 22 that would merit some very serious consideration by the company with respect.

PN49

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, and so that I have got it right, are you saying to me that I should look at those 50-odd statements in order to try to resolve the dispute notwithstanding that those 50-odd statements don't appear to have as yet been the subject of discussions between the union and the employer?

PN50

MS BUCKLER: Well, I did invite the employer to respond to them. They didn't take up that invitation.

PN51

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I see, thank you. Thank you, Ms Buckley. Ms Denley?

PN52

MS DENLEY: Thank you, Senior Deputy President. Bridgestone's position in relation to this matter is that we believe the Commission doesn't have the jurisdiction to hear this matter. We say this because we do not believe that in accordance with section 101, the Commission would be able to consider that there is an industrial dispute on the basis that it doesn't fit the definition of section 4. No industrial action has been taken, is being taken or is threatened and there is no indication of any interstate character or nature to this matter.

PN53

The notification itself states that there is no industrial action that has been taken, being taken or threatened and if this is correct, we say that the Commission has no jurisdiction to deal with this further unless the matters said in the scope of the dispute found in C3700/1984 which we have no record of and don't know the details. However, even if this is the case, there is no thought of actual threatened or impending industrial action, so how can this constitute an actual industrial dispute.

PN54

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Someone must have made a decision at some point in time that clause 47.7 was within the ambit established by a dispute finding, Ms Denley.

PN55

MS DENLEY: I suspect so.

PN56

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN57

MS DENLEY: Yes.

PN58

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Now, to the extent that that dispute finding is at the genesis of this particular debate, if I can call it a debate rather than a dispute at this stage, to what extent do you say to me then, there is no authority available to the Commission to act in the matter?

PN59

MS DENLEY: Well, the award in itself is a complete coat which deals with the matter that the union has brought before you, that is, they stated and their notification, there is to be a close down of the company's Salisbury plant requiring employees to take annual leave and the exact issue is dealt with in 47.7 of the award. 47.7 is titled: The Timing of Taking Annual Leave, and clause 47.7.2 provides for the granting of 28 days leave in one continuous period and goes on to provide a number of alternatives to leave being taken in one continuous period.

PN60

47.7.3 goes on to address the issue of employees' concerns where one of the alternatives to 4 weeks' continuous leave is adopted and doesn't refer to a close down at all. Close down is specifically addressed in clause 47.11 and that clause enables the company to close down its business or a section or sections thereof for a maximum of two separate periods and it would seem that the union's issue is with the timing of the close down. The award doesn't give the employees the right to complain about the timing as such but the hardship caused.

PN61

The award stipulates how an effective employee is to seek redress and that is by making application to the Industrial Registrar, not the Commission. The parties to this award have specifically given the Industrial Registrar the powers in this regard and it is on that basis with respect, that it should be considered by the Registrar and not the Commission.

PN62

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Ms Denley, Ms Buckler indicated that she understood that Bridgestone had indicated that it would consider requests from employees who argued that there were extenuating circumstances.

PN63

MS DENLEY: Yes, that is correct.

PN64

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is a fair summary of the Bridgestone position?

PN65

MS DENLEY: Yes, absolutely.

PN66

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Now, what has Bridgestone either done or is intending to do with respect to the 50-odd statements from employees?

PN67

MS DENLEY: Well, we have been awaiting a number of employees - a number of employees have approached Employer Relations Department at Salisbury outlining their individual circumstances. Some of those 55 employees that have given a statement have actually already applied for annual leave and have already been in contact with Employer Relations Department.

PN68

So we are quite happy to go through those individual statements and say - and discuss with the employee whether we can actually cover them in terms of annual leave and from our records, we believe we can. Where there isn't, there is the ability to cash in sick leave which is part of our EBA that they could use that. And we don't think there will be any form of hardship.

PN69

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Within what period of time would you see Bridgestone then having formulated its own opinion either by itself or in concert with the relevant employees, with regard to all of the 50-odd requests that I have before me?

PN70

MS DENLEY: I would suspect within a week we could resolve it.

PN71

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: We have a very tight time frame here.

PN72

MS DENLEY: Yes.

PN73

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: In that 12 July is marching forward.

PN74

MS DENLEY: Well, if we can arrange for those employees to come to Employer Relations Department tomorrow, as long as we get through the different shifts - or it would be Monday effectively, by Monday afternoon. If those employees were prepared to come and sit with Employer Relations Department, we could resolve it then.

PN75

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Thank you, Ms Denley. Ms Buckler, can I put something to you for consideration and if needs be I am very happy to allow a brief adjournment for you to discuss that with your members. It seems to me that the jurisdiction exists for the Commission to act in this matter and indeed the jurisdiction exists, for what it is worth, to allow the commission to make changes to clause 47 or indeed other parts of the award, given that the award was established as part of a resolution of a dispute finding.

PN76

There is an altogether different issue as to whether or not I am given either grounds for or an argument such that I ought to vary the award or vary a process set out in the award. Now, I could well be wrong here but it seems to me that if the legality of the close down is accepted, the fundamental issue relates to those people who might be disadvantaged or concerned about that close down. And in that regard, it appears to me that there are possibly three steps that might be taken or considered in this matter.

PN77

The first step would be that - or could be - that there could be a very limited period of time in which both your union and Bridgestone would facilitate early consideration of each of the requests. That would involve personnel who seek to pursue those requests raising the matter with Bridgestone and Bridgestone coming up with responses to those people. The likelihood is that that process might well reduce the current number of 50 to a smaller number. It may not do so, who knows?

PN78

Secondly, in relation to those people who are still in dispute, let us say by Wednesday, 7th, by the morning of Wednesday 7th, for me to facilitate early consideration of any outstanding requests by the Industrial Registrar in accordance with clause 47.7.3 so that I can make clear what I mean by facilitation, I would intend to have a discussion with the Industrial Registrar within the next 24 hours and advise the Registrar of the possibility that a resource might need to be allocated to try to deal with any outstanding requests at an early time.

PN79

If within a few days of that consideration being commenced and concluded by the Industrial Registrar, there still remained issues of dispute between the parties, then in accordance with clause 19 of the award, it seems to me that there is the capacity then for the Commission to look at taking some other form of action and clause 19 is the grievance and disputes procedure, so as to see what could be done to bring about a resolution to the then continuing dispute.

PN80

Now, the hope would be that the discussions between the parties might resolve the matters and to the extent that those discussions may even be preceded by a discussion between the union and the employer to try to agree on criteria, then so much the better. The expectation is that if matters need to go to the Industrial Registrar and remain in dispute following that, the number that are in dispute should be substantially less, by substantially I mean very substantially.

PN81

There may well be an argument that once the Industrial Registrar has considered the matters, then the matters are resolved. And I am not denying the employer the opportunity to put that argument or indeed your union the opportunity to put that argument but I am suggesting that the last resort would be the Commission and that in the absence of, first of all, discussions between the employees concerned and the employer and secondly, between the union and the employer and thirdly, the involvement of the Industrial Registrar, I am very loathe to replace or usurp those normal functions. So can I suggest that I will adjourn the matter for a brief time to give you the opportunity to discuss that proposal with Mr Field and with your members.

PN82

MS BUCKLER: Thank you.

PN83

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I will adjourn the matter for, say, 5 minutes.

SHORT ADJOURNMENT [2.10pm]

RESUMED [2.20pm]

PN84

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, Ms Buckler?

PN85

MS BUCKLER: Thank you, Senior Deputy President for that short adjournment. We have taken the opportunity to discuss the process that has been outlined to us. We are happy to participate in that process. We have had a brief discussion with the employees. We are yet to work out how to cover all the shift arrangements but the three-step process that you outlined is acceptable to us.

PN86

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, thank you. Mr Denley?

PN87

MS DENLEY: Yes, thank you, Senior Deputy President. We are quite happy with that process and can comply with Wednesday, 7 July.

PN88

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, that is the only thing that is worrying me about the process that I have outlined insofar as whether or not it gives the Registrar adequate time to look at the matter, given that we have really only got next week to deal with the matter. To what extent could the parties expedite consideration of the request or requests for - that have been made in this matter.

PN89

MS DENLEY: I would have thought that we would have been able to do it on the spot with those - provide the information to them and a lot of them that have already come in have already had decisions and discussed and they have agreed the outcome. Out of those 55, a number of them have already - 14 is it, yes - have already put in leave applications.

PN90

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I see.

PN91

MS DENLEY: So we are down already.

PN92

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So that if we shorten that time to the extent that outstanding requests in accordance with clause 47.7.3 were to be provided to me or advice of those requests was to be provided to me by 5 pm Monday, 5 July, would that be something that from Bridgestone's perspective you could accommodate?

PN93

MS DENLEY: It would be fine. It is just that tomorrow - we could have it all done tomorrow but all the delegates are off site at a convention tomorrow, so we have got to try and push it in either tomorrow morning, perhaps Sunday night and Monday we would have to do it.

PN94

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN95

MS DENLEY: We could do it, provided everybody is at work that have put the statements in.

PN96

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, well, I have already alerted the Registrar's Office to the possibility that a resource may have to be allocated in this respect. If I was advised by 5 pm Monday, 7 July of those applications that were sought to be pursued pursuant to clause 47.7.3 then that gives us a little more time at the end of the process so that if there remain matters in dispute subsequent to their consideration by the Registrar, they may or may not be referred back to the Commission.

PN97

MS DENLEY: Yes.

PN98

MS BUCKLER: That is fine, Monday 5th.

PN99

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, 5 pm Monday 5th I am expecting advice fundamentally from the LHMU to the effect of which of the 50-odd requests remain unresolved and as such, need to be referred to the Registrar. Now if the individuals want to make those requests to me, I am happy for that to occur but it might be better that it be done in a co-ordinated fashion through the LHMWU.

PN100

MS DENLEY: Yes.

PN101

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you. Ms Buckler, are you happy with that approach?

PN102

MS BUCKLER: That is fine, sir.

PN103

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So that there is absolutely no doubt, any outstanding requests or unresolved requests will be referred to the Registrar either on Monday evening or on Tuesday morning, 6th. I am not in a position to put a time frame around the speed with which the Registrar will be able to look at it but I have made the Registrar's office aware of the time constraint which is established by 12 July proposed shut down. If the matter remains unresolved as of next Thursday, then the opportunity exists for you to seek to have this matter called back on again, Ms Buckler.

PN104

Now, it may be that on that occasion we simply establish that the Registrar is still considering the matters. It may be that there is an argument about whether or not I should look further at it at all or it may be that I am persuaded to look further at it. That is all in the land of the unknown at the present time but we will deal with that if we need to on Thursday. I should say on either Thursday or Friday. All right? Is there anything further? Ms Denley?

PN105

MS DENLEY: If I could just make a point. The powers as we see the Industrial Registrar has, is to consider each individual case on its merit but by either disallowing the employee's claim or directing the leave be taken in one period. And I am concerned that the employees may be mislead that they will actually be given the opportunity not to take leave.

PN106

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, does that not raise the quite possibly very valid issue associated with whether or not the employer wants to have a capacity to put a position to the Registrar?

PN107

MS DENLEY: Yes, it does.

PN108

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The issue appears to be at the Registrar's discretion.

PN109

MS DENLEY: Yes.

PN110

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: What I would propose to do is to advise the Registrar of your contact details.

PN111

MS DENLEY: Thank you.

PN112

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So that if you don't care to contact the Registrar, the Registrar at least has the ability to contact you if he wishes to do so.

PN113

MS DENLEY: Thank you.

PN114

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I won't go to the extent of limiting or inhibiting the Registrar's function in any way. It is a very good Registrar - if he doesn't inhibit mine. So I won't poach on his patch either but I will ensure that the avenue is there for some communication if needs be.

PN115

MS DENLEY: Thank you, Senior Deputy President.

PN116

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right.

PN117

MS BUCKLER: Thank you.

PN118

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Very well. I will adjourn the matter on that basis.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [2.30pm]

INDEX

LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs

EXHIBIT #LHMWU1 NOTICE DATED 10/05/2004 PN5