|
|
Home
| Databases
| WorldLII
| Search
| Feedback
Australian Industrial Relations Commission Transcripts |
AUSCRIPT PTY LTD
ABN 76 082 664 220
ADMINISTRATOR APPOINTED
Level 10, 15 Adelaide St BRISBANE Qld 4000
(PO Box 13038 George Street Post Shop Brisbane Qld 4003)
Tel:(07)3229-5957 Fax:(07)3229-5996
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL O/N 3063
RELATIONS COMMISSION
COMMISSIONER RICHARDS
C2004/5341
APPLICATION TO STOP OR PREVENT
INDUSTRIAL ACTION
Application under section 127(2) of the
Act by BHP Coal Pty Ltd for orders in respect of
the Construction, Forestry Mining and
Energy Union
BRISBANE
5.19 PM, THURSDAY, 29 JULY 2004
THIS HEARING WAS CONDUCTED BY TELEPHONE AND
RECORDED IN BRISBANE
PN1
MR G. GERARD: If the Commission pleases, my name is Greg Gerard, appearing for BHP Coal Pty Ltd. I also apologise, Commissioner, for my attire, I wasn't expecting to be here this afternoon, but I see I'm in illustrious company.
PN2
THE COMMISSIONER: I won't say anything that will preserve any comment for transcript, so we'll move straight on.
PN3
MR T. CONROY: Good afternoon, Commissioner, my name is Tim Conroy. I appear on behalf of the CFMEU. I too didn't expect to be here. Unlike Mr Gerard, I'm not sure if my attire would have changed if I knew.
PN4
MR E. MOORHEAD: If the Commission pleases, my name is Moorhead E., on behalf of the AMWU.
PN5
THE COMMISSIONER: They don't give you a long sleeve shirt, do they, Mr - - -
PN6
MR MOORHEAD: Oh, they do, actually. But not today.
PN7
THE COMMISSIONER: They do?
PN8
MS P. ROGERS: May it please the Commission, my name is Pat Rogers. I appear on behalf of the CEPU.
PN9
THE COMMISSIONER: Good. Thanks, Ms Rogers. Now, we have by telephone - we have any persons anyone needs to bring in at this moment or not until later?
PN10
MR GERARD: Commissioner, I was intending, after a very brief opening submission - because the main issue that I'd address is already addressed in the application made pursuant to section 127 - to call Mr Zietsman, the mine manager. I understand from my friends that Mr Conroy has two witnesses and, I think, Ms Rogers did have one witness who has dropped out.
PN11
THE COMMISSIONER: All right. We'll see how that goes when we come to it then. But, okay, over to you then, Mr Gerard.
PN12
MR GERARD: Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner, as the application before you indicates, a stoppage of work occurred at the Goonyella Riverside mine, which is our largest mine, around about noon today, and our initial advice was that the employees would be on strike for 24 hours. As will arise in evidence from Mr Zietsman, the mine manager, the delegates have subsequently contacted the management team at Goonyella Riverside mine and have indicated that the stoppage, in fact, has been extended until 7am on Saturday morning. The reason given for the stoppage, and it may not be verbatim and we may hear better from Mr Zietsman, was over the failure of a safety alarm.
PN13
Commissioner, what transpired at Goonyella Riverside yesterday was a fairly serious accident involving one of the contractors, which necessitated the actioning of the mine's rescue team. And it would appear that an alarm at the workshop number 1 at the Goonyella side of the mine, did not activate. As the grounds indicate to you, and far from me to be making submissions from the bar table, Commissioner - and hopefully I will draw this in evidence - but there are various back-up systems that - despite the fact that this alarm didn't work yesterday morning, mind you, the employees decided to strike at noon today over an issue which occurred, you know, some 24 hours before.
PN14
And also, Commissioner, as I understand it, subsequent to the additional notice of the stoppage, there is also a picket being established at the mine site and other contractors being removed from the mine, who are currently - or were working there when I left the office. Commissioner, I have e-mailed and provided a hard copy of the draft order to the Commission, and if I could make a correction to it - and I'll address this further in submissions. It's at point 3(b), in the third sentence; the word "not" should be deleted. So it should read, the third sentence: "AMWU must, in respect of, or in any way ...".
PN15
Commissioner, if I could also, as I indicated in a separate fax to the Commission, seek leave to amend the original application and the grounds to reflect the fact that the stoppage is to go to 7am, Saturday morning. And, Commissioner, I think that was all I was going to put in opening submission. If I could now call Mr Zietsman, the mine manager, to give evidence? I understand that two other witnesses are on the line, Commissioner.
PN16
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. Well, we'd need to exclude them and we can do so, I think, by muting them.
PN17
MR GERARD: Thank you, Mr Zietsman. It's Greg Gerard, Ben. Can you hear me, Mr Zietsman?---Greg, was that you calling me, I - because the line is very unclear.
PN18
Can you hear me now?---That's better, Greg.
PN19
Mr Zietsman, could you please give the Commission your full name and address, please?---Yes. Full name: Barend - B-a-r-e-n-d - Hamilton - H-a-m-i-l-t-o-n - Zietsman - Z-i-e-t-s-m-a-n.
PN20
And your address?---Address? (Address supplied)
PN21
And what position do you hold at the Goonyella Riverside mine, Mr Zietsman?---I'm manager.
PN22
Mr Zietsman, how were you advised that a stoppage of work was being taken at Goonyella Riverside mine?---I was - I was contacted by Dan O'Sullivan, known as "Rabbit". He is one of the CFMEU SDU members at Goonyella Riverside. That was at approximately 11.30 this morning. He was phoning from the union office in Moranbah and he asked me whether I was aware of the - that when the emergency was called yesterday morning, that the alarm at the Goonyella workshop in workshop 1 area did not sound. I indicated to him that I was not aware of this but would follow it up immediately with the rescue coordinator and I'd get back to him. I - I - I contacted Greg and he indicated to me that it had been mentioned at the - at the debrief session and that they would investigate and get the necessary guys out to correct the - the alarm situation. I returned a call to - to Rabbit at approximately 11.50 and informed him of the status and that the alarm would be tested and corrected as soon as possible. And he then said to me that they viewed it as a failure of a safety system and that they would be withdrawing their labour for 24 hours as of 12 o'clock this afternoon.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XN MR GERARD
PN23
Now, you mentioned the rescue coordinator, Greg. Who would that be?---Greg Muir - M-u-i-r.
PN24
And you also mentioned a debriefing. What do you mean by a debriefing?---Once the - the emergency has been handled and completed, the rescue team actually sit down with the - with the safety manager, and they go through the whole process in terms of how the whole event was - was managed and run. And once they've completed that, they actually try and look - look for areas of improvement, and they listed a number of issues on the their - on their debriefing list and - where they believe that, for future purposes, they could improve the actual rescue process. And one of - one of those issues that was mentioned that needed attention, was the fact that the alarm at the workshop 1 at Goonyella had not sounded at the time that the alarm - that the emergency was announced.
PN25
And are you aware of the reason of why that alarm didn't sound?---Yes, we have - we have found out and we have established that the alarm does work. However, it appears as if a problem has developed with the microwave link between the production control office and the workshop 1, which actually prevented this alarm from activating automatically. So the alarm does work, but it didn't - it didn't alarm automatically as it is supposed to do.
PN26
Do you conducting testing of the system at Goonyella Riverside?---Yes, we have a - a - a testing team managed by the mining operations guys, where they actually test the system every Monday morning at 8 o'clock.
PN27
Are you aware what happened this Monday?---I know two weeks ago - Monday, two weeks ago, the whole system tested perfectly and there were no issues with the system. This - I haven't seen this Monday's report, but I - I - I just - in discussion with the guys from production. The tests were done but they couldn't confirm whether or not the alarm at workshop 1 went off.
PN28
Right, so you - - - ?---There was a - there was a bit of a shortcoming there in terms of the - the actual testing procedure.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XN MR GERARD
PN29
Right, okay. Now, subsequent to Mr O'Sullivan's original call, have you been contacted by anybody from the CFMEU, CEPU or AMWU in relation to what has transpired subsequent to your initial advice?---Not at all. However, just after 2 o'clock this afternoon, Keith Reid, who is our HR manager, was informed by Rabbit that they had finalised their meeting and decided to make it a 48 hour stoppage. And Keith asked why they hadn't followed the - the disputes procedure, which - which they didn't really give him an answer to. He also asked them if they had inform Andrew Vickers and Ray Barker and they indicated to him that they didn't need to - to answer that question. And we have since heard that they were setting a picket line to prevent any other persons from coming to work. The picket line will be up at the Goonyella Riverside junction, so they will be preventing all other contractors, cleaners etcetera, to come to work for the shift this evening.
PN30
Thank you. Now, you've indicated that the alarm at workshop 1, I think you said, at Goonyella, didn't work because of the microwave link. Do you have any back-up systems in place, in the event that one aspect of the emergency system doesn't work?---Yes, there is a - there is a manual activator in the workshop 1 area, that - that can be activated manually if the alarm system doesn't go off.
PN31
Are there any other ways of contacting the members of the mines rescue squad?---I'm not quite - I don't quite understand. From which position, Greg? From the workshop 1 or from anywhere on site?
PN32
Oh, from anywhere on site?---Well, the - if an emergency is called, the - the central control room contacts all the - the rescue personnel by means of pagers. All the rescue personnel are issued with pagers, so they will be notified immediately if there is an emergency anywhere on the site.
PN33
And you have a two-way system. Is that used at all for such events?---Yes. As soon as an emergency is called, the - all the two-way radio channels - get the emergency siren, that is a continuous siren that is sounded across all channels. And persons are asked to - to obey a radio silence, because the channels - channels are being used for emergency purposes. And that - that siren is sounded throughout the emergency period, until the emergency coordinator calls the emergency off and asks for the sirens to be silenced.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XN MR GERARD
PN34
Good. Thank you. Now, you mentioned the rescue system. How do people respond to an emergency? What sort of vehicles do they use?---We have a - a rescue truck. I'm not quite sure what - how - what size it is, Greg, but I'd say it's probably the equivalent of about a 10 tonne truck. It's a 4 wheel-drive vehicle that is fully equipped with all the equipment for any emergency that - that could occur on this - on this mine. And that is - that is the primary vehicle that they use. We've also got on - an on-site ambulance and also an arrangement for back-up ambulances from Moranbah if required.
PN35
Right.
PN36
Mr Zietsman, it might be appropriate if you could directly given an outline to Commissioner Richards of the events that actually occurred yesterday so that the Commission is appraised of what actually happened leading up to the strike?---That was today's view. Do you want the information on the emergency or actually the lead up to the actual strike?
PN37
The actual incident that occurred yesterday?---What happened was that at 9 o'clock yesterday morning, the emergency alarms were activated. We checked out the emergency response room and the emergency guys were called out to the scene. We got informed through the emergency control room that there had been an incident at ramp 27 North where the Thiess contractors are doing ..... work for Goonyella Riverside, and the message that we got was that while cleaning mud and debris off the bottom of an excavator frame, two employees that were busy with that process had actually levered down some mud that had - and had actually captured them below the mud fall, and that was the nature of the emergency. The - our emergency teams went out there immediately to the - in fact, they were out there within 10 minutes. There were also three or four bystanders at the actual site when the emergency occurred, and the three bystanders went to the assistance of those two guys that had been partially covered by the mud and debris. They went to them immediately to get them exposed, and to make sure that they were okay. The rescue team arrived, and they continued with - the rescue team and the paramedics arrived and they continued with the stabilisation process. We also called out our doctor from Moranbah. He was there within 30 minutes, and he assisted with the treatment
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XN MR GERARD
and the stabilisation processes. While this was under way, we called up the Central Queensland Rescue Helicopter, because the nature of the injuries that these guys had were serious, and indications at that stage was that they did have possible fractured pelvises and back injuries. So we called the helicopter out; the helicopter was there once the stabilisation had been completed. They were both loaded into the helicopter and transported to the base hospital in Mackay where specialist medical attention was available to take them from that point onwards.
PN38
And were these employees of BHP Coal that were injured, Mr Zietsman?---No, these guys are employees of the Thiess contracting organisation that is doing work at the Goonyella Riverside site.
PN39
Now, you've indicated that the microwave link to the workshop is defective; are you aware if it's been fixed, and if not, are there any alternative systems that you - that are in place?---It has not been in - correct, yes, we have got guys out there at the moment. We have in fact got the BMA electronics IP guys and two other organisations that are looking at it including Telstra because it appears to be a Telstra issue and we are hoping that they will have it corrected by today, but I can't guarantee that because it could be a couple of days before they've actually got it set up. We have put an interim arrangement in place. The interim arrangement is basically that upon notification of an emergency, the production controller is to activate the emergency sirens as per his process. The production controller will then also contact extension 4277, who is the supervisor in Workshop 1, and notify him of the emergency. And that supervisor will activate the Goonyella industrial area emergency siren, which is located at the entrance to the warehouse at Workshop 1.
PN40
Now, subsequent to being advised of the strike, Mr Zietsman, being the mine manager, are you aware what sort of tonnage you possibly could lose due to this strike?---Yes, we've got two full production days scheduled for today and tomorrow, which means that - the Goonyella plant produces on a full production day 30,000 tonnes of product goal, and the Riverside one 16,000 tonnes of product coal. So we will be losing 46,000 tonnes of production coal per 24-hour period. At the current revenue of - in the order of about $85 per tonne, we're talking about production losses in the order of about $3.9 million a day. That is on the production side. Obviously it gets more complicated if we
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XN MR GERARD
get into a stage where we start holding up the port. Now, at this stage we have sufficient stockpiles to continue our ship loading for the next 18 hours. However, if we've got to cancel the five trains that have been scheduled in the next 48 hours, it will mean that we will run into demurrage costs at the port, which could potentially be another half a million dollars a day.
PN41
Thanks, Mr Zietsman. I don't have any further questions.
PN42
THE COMMISSIONER: Can I just - perhaps if I could ask Mr Zietsman a number of questions myself.
PN43
What was the role of the siren or alarm at Workshop 1 in the events of yesterday?---Merely for notification of the people working in the Workshop 1 area. What we do is as soon as there's an emergency on the mine site, we notify everybody through the alarm system. People them immediately group across to the muster point where they will be kept informed in terms of where the emergency is, whether or not it affects their working area and whether or not they can go back to work. So it's purely for notification purposes so that everybody on the site is aware that there is an emergency.
PN44
Right. The interim arrangement you have in place; does the supervisor who is to activate the emergency siren, is that the manual switch for the siren we were talking about to begin with, or is that a different siren?---That's correct. It's the manual switch within the workshop.
PN45
So what's the method by which he's being communicated with in an emergency situation as a consequence of the failure of the microwave link?---The production coordinator who activates the emergency sirens will, in addition to activating the emergency sirens, contact the production - contact the supervisor at extension 4277, which is the number where the supervisor is. That supervisor also has a mobile handset that is linked to that number so that wherever he is within the workshop environment he can be contacted. And we have a supervisor there for 24 hours a day.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XN MR GERARD
PN46
Has this arrangement been discussed with anyone to date?---Yes, the arrangement has been discussed. And over and above that arrangement, we've also issued the supervisors in the workshop with two-way radios. Now, the - which they will have on their person at all times. Now, in the event of a telephone problem, which is unlikely, they will also get the emergency siren across the two-way radio that will now be part of what they will carry around on a daily basis.
PN47
And so the means by which the production coordinator was going to contact them was via pager or mobile phone; which was it again?---The production controller would contact the supervisor at Workshop 1 via means of a landline, a telephone line.
PN48
By way of a landline dedicated to the workshop?---The supervisor, yes.
PN49
And if he's moving around, that's when the two-way comes in to play, is it?---It's - the two-way will be a back-up. But even when he's moving around he does have a mobile handset that is attached to that landline.
PN50
Oh, I see, sorry?---It's not physically attached, but it's got a mobile - - -
PN51
Yes, I'm with you now?---Yes.
PN52
And the range of that remote - - -
PN53
TELSTRA: Excuse me, Commissioner.
PN54
MS ROGERS: Yes?
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XN MR GERARD
PN55
TELSTRA: This is a note from Telstra: I've had to take you out of your call for a moment. One of the parties, a Mr Smyth, has called in asking to be connected. Is it okay to put him in at this stage?
PN56
MS ROGERS: Mr Smyth, a health and safety officer, CFMEU.
PN57
MR CONROY: Commissioner, he is one of our witnesses.
PN58
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, so - - -
PN59
MS ROGERS: Can you just have Mr Smyth on mute for the moment, please?
PN60
TELSTRA: Absolutely, I'll join you back through to your call.
PN61
MS ROGERS: Thank you. Sorry about that, Mr Zietsman, just hold.
PN62
THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Zietsman, my question was: is the mobile handset - does it have sufficient demonstrated range to operate for the normal movements of the supervisor throughout the workshop?---That is correct. The mobile range for that handset is adequate for the whole area that he does cover.
PN63
In any event, he has now the backup of the two-way?---That's correct.
PN64
Which has been provided with him?---Yes.
PN65
He has that now?---Yes.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XN MR GERARD
PN66
When I asked you about whether those interim arrangements have been discussed, with whom have you discussed those interim arrangements?---With the superintendent, who is the person that those supervisors report to, and also with the production control personnel who will be making the calls in the event of an emergency.
PN67
With anyone else?---That's all at this stage. We've also sent out a safety alert that goes out to every single employee on the site, notifying them of this interim arrangement, and that will be read out at all the toolbox talks. And everybody, when they come back to work for their next shift, will be informed in terms of the content of that safety alert.
PN68
And you don't have any indicative time for the duration of this interim arrangement, do you? It just depends on when Telstra and the others fix the microwave link, is it?---Yes, they indicated that they got to start at 5 o'clock, so they got to start at about the same time as we started this teleconference. They were hoping that there would be a quick fix, but they couldn't guarantee that it would be fixed by today. You know, it depends on the nature of the problem. You know, it could be something that could take a couple of days if whatever's broken down is something that we can't source in.
PN69
Good. Thanks very much.
PN70
MR GERARD: Nothing arising from your questions.
PN71
THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Zietsman, just, sorry, one last question. It's a minor matter but strangely important. That is, the spelling of your name, does the "t" come before the "s" or the "s" after the "t"?---Z-i-e-t-s-m-a-n.
PN72
Thank you.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XN MR GERARD
PN73
PN74
MR CONROY: Thanks, Commissioner.
PN75
Mr Zietsman, my name is Tim Conroy. I'm an industrial officer for the CFMEU. I would just like to ask you a few questions in cross-examination. Firstly, you've talked about an understanding with respect to a picket line being formed and preventing people from coming to work. Now, you don't have any first-hand knowledge of that occurring, do you?---That's correct.
PN76
So you don't know if there's a picket line?---No, I'm not aware of one at this stage. I just - I was informed through informal notice that that is what was being planned. But I can't verify that because, as I say, I heard that second-hand.
PN77
Okay. And you're not aware of the peoples' means of entrance into the mine being stopped by this possible picket line, are you?---At the time that we started the teleconference there was no picket line and it was just something that we had been told about and that we were anticipating. The next shift comes on to shift within the next 15 or 20 minutes, so if there was going to be a picket line I would imagine that they would set themselves up to prevent those guys from coming to work.
PN78
Well, that's only your speculation, isn't it?---Yes, that's all. Yes.
PN79
Now, if I heard correctly, you mentioned that Telstra and the other people you got involved to fix up this microwave issue started work at 5 p.m?---That's correct.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XXN MR CONROY
PN80
Can I ask you why it took so long for work to commence on fixing the problem?---Well, first of all, we did an investigation this morning just to determine what the extent of the issue was. We went and tested the alarms and found that the alarm at the workshop one actually perfectly worked. So what - in fact, the alarm that was the problem, it was - and we turned it off so that once they had run through the system that it was in fact a link somewhere between Goonyella and the production control office at Riverside. So once we established that, our electricians had a look at the system and realised that they couldn't do anything about it. We required the guys from Telstra to have a look at it. We contacted Telstra; the Telstra technician that is responsible for this area was down in the Blackwater area at the time so it was a two-hour - well, probably almost a three-hour drive for him from Blackwater to Goonyella Riverside.
PN81
Okay. Mr Zietsman, what time was the debrief yesterday?---Probably around about 2 o'clock, 1400 hours, in the afternoon, yes.
PN82
Okay. So it was at 2 o'clock yesterday where I understand that employees who formed part of the emergency response crew - - - ?---Yes.
PN83
- - - raised the fact that there was an issue with the alarm not working?---That's correct, yes.
PN84
Why then did it take you from 2 o'clock yesterday until this morning to commence an investigation on the issue?---Well, in the first place, it wasn't raised as a major issue; it was raised as an issue that needed attention. And at that time, just after the debrief had been completed, we had a number of our rescue personnel that had really shown some serious signs of stress and shock, having been exposed to the actual emergency. And our first priority was to just do a debriefing with these guys afterwards, just to ensure that they were okay. And we had a industrial psychologist and our EPA guys on site just to have a chat to the rescue guys that weren't looking too good after the rescue just to ensure that they were okay. And that was our first priority at that stage.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XXN MR CONROY
PN85
I guess, Mr Zietsman, first of all, I mean, I commend you on that; but secondly, surely none of these employees would be involved in remedial action or investigation with respect to that alarm? I'm sure other - - - ?---That is correct. It was the rescue coordinator who was the guard that would action - the action that the 10 out of the debriefing was participating in the actual psychological EPA type of discussions that were being conducted with his members.
PN86
But surely even if that person was involved, there were other competent personnel who could have led the charge on - - - ?---Yes.
PN87
- - - looking at this alarm system? You would have to acknowledge that, wouldn't you?---Yes, in hindsight, I mean, knowing what we know now, we should have - we could have got somebody to start investigating the issue probably sometime yesterday afternoon.
PN88
Now, Mr Zietsman, I heard you inform the Commission that these employees who were injured are employees of Thiess?---That's correct.
PN89
Now, the fact that they're employees of Thiess doesn't diminish in any way BHPs responsibility, and in fact your responsibility as the SSE, for safety on this site, does it?---That's correct. The employees working within my area of jurisdiction are treated as BHP Billiton employees.
PN90
Now, you've advised the Commission with respect to interim arrangements to cover the period that the alarm is not working as it normally does; what time did these interim arrangements come into effect?---We won't be - we established that the problem was the microwave link, which was probably around about 2 o'clock this afternoon, and then when we realised that the Telstra guy was three hours away we started working on the interim process. So I would say that we probably got it into place at before 30 - before 1500 hours this afternoon. Probably at some time between 2 o'clock and 3 o'clock.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XXN MR CONROY
PN91
Okay. Now, Mr Zietsman, what stockpiles have you got at the pit at the present time?---In terms of product coal, we have in the order of about 400,000 tonnes on our product stockpiles. And down at the port we have very limited stocks; probably in the order of about 12 or 13 thousand tonnes. And then obviously we have our input stockpiles, which are basically still in the mine but haven't been taken out, but they have been exposed. We have about 1½ million tonnes of input stock.
PN92
And the stockpiles you've got at the port; how long would they last, given your contractual obligations at the present time, over the next couple of days?---We have a number of stockpiles at the port, but the shipment they're currently loading is loading a specific product and we've probably got a quarter of about - about 18 hours of stock on that specific stockpile.
PN93
So you've got 18 hours of that specific stock at the port?---That's correct, yes.
PN94
So in terms of the dollar figures you indicated that you would lose and the demurrage costs at the port - - - ?---Yes.
PN95
- - - it's fair to say that the figures you indicated are significantly more, in fact, than the reality?---Not at all. The $3.9 million that we use a day is the product that is produced through the plant. We've got a budget of 13 million tonnes for this financial year. I've got to produce at that rate to achieve that production. What we use, we use, because we're on a 7-day roster 363 days per year type of arrangement. So whatever I'll use, I'll use, and I can't make it up because the plant is running at full capacity. However, the demurrage is just an estimate at this stage because we've got five trains scheduled during this period that the stockage has been declared for. And if we lose the first three trains, we can probably still get there in time, but if we lose all five trains then we will definitely go into a demurrage situation.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XXN MR CONROY
PN96
And when - what's the last - or the third train out of the five; what time is that going to be?---We have - I can't tell you exactly, but in the next 24 hours we've got three trains scheduled. And as I've said, if we don't load those three trains, which we are not planning to load at this stage - we have notified Queensland Rail to divert those trains and obviously there is a penalty for that if you notify them of any train cancellations in less than 48 hours from the time that you called in for the cancellation. There is a penalty that applies. And so we've met with a penalty of a couple of thousand dollars. But obviously if we also miss out the two trains that have been scheduled in the 24 hours following the current 24-hour period, we will then run into stock problems at the port.
PN97
Okay. Mr Zietsman, how long have you been at Goonyella Riverside?---This month it will be two years.
PN98
Okay. And - - - ?---I got here in - at the end of July 2002.
PN99
And in the two years that you've worked at the pit, has there been any unprotected industrial action previously?---Not by the CFMEU. We had - we've had two one-day stay-aways by the ..... Union and we had a one-day stay-away from the Electrical Workers' Union. That was - I can't remember exactly - probably about eight or nine months ago.
PN100
So the fact that the CFMEU membership employed at your pit are on strike is a unusual action in your experience?---Most certainly. You know, we - I - we've got a very good relationship between ourselves and our CFMEU membership. And if we have issues we discuss them. We've got a very mature union management leadership team that sits on a regular basis where we discuss any issues and any concerns. And normally if there are issues, we discuss them and we resolve them. And the guys normally follow the disputes procedure very well and we've managed to sort out any issues that have arisen. But for some reason this time they chose not to go that route.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XXN MR CONROY
PN101
Well, you would have to agree, wouldn't you, that the fact that there has been stoppage would be indicative of your employees feeling great alarm over this issue?---Yes, I do. However, the - what does concern me is that our CFMEUs leadership team was away today; they were down at Emerald. And the guys that actually took the decision to call this work stoppage were not the top leadership within our negotiating port.
PN102
Now, just a couple more questions, thanks. Would it be fair to say that the purpose of this alarm is that it is the primary notification relied upon by all personnel at the pit of an emergency?---That's correct.
PN103
Okay?---Yes, just as clarification; that alarm only sounds at the two industrial areas. We've got an industrial area at Goonyella, which is essentially the Workshop 1 and the processing plant. And we have an industrial area at Riverside, which is the main sort of maintenance workshop area as well as the Riverside Coal Processing Plant. From the actual mine site out in the pit, the operators and drivers of equipment and machinery, they all are notified via the two-way radio because every vehicle on the site has a two-way radio. So everybody is in full contact at all times via the two-way radio. So they would pick it up over the two-way radio.
PN104
Mr Zietsman, you would concur that this is a very serious issue from a safety point of view, wouldn't you?---This isn't a serious issue. I don't believe that it has any influence or effect on our capability to handle this emergency as well as what we possibly could. Bearing in mind that the actual rescue vehicle is parked adjacent to the Workshop 1 area, the alarm was called at 9 o'clock in the morning, the emergency vehicle left the emergency shed at about two minutes past nine, travelled right past the front of the Workshop 1 where the alarm had not been sounded. So within two minutes of the emergency being called the guys at the workshop were aware of it. However, the alarm had not sounded.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XXN MR CONROY
PN105
But given a slightly different circumstance that two minutes could have been considerably longer, couldn't it?---Well, I - bearing in mind that at Workshop 1 we have a number of vehicles. They're all equipped with two-way radios. All those two-way radios would have sounded the alarm. We have six radios within the workshop as well. These would have also been loud and clear in terms of the emergency siren. So it's not as if the guys were not informed and everybody on the site was aware of the alarm. The issue here is that the actual alarm on top of the roof, which is a very loud, audible one, didn't sound.
PN106
And that's the alarm that people primarily rely upon to find out that there's an emergency, isn't it?---Well, it most certainly is an alarm that's a very clear indication to everyone that there is an alarm on, but the back-up systems and the two-way radios and the emergency vehicle and anything else are also there to ensure that people are aware of it.
PN107
How would you feel if one of your management team advised employees that this was a trivial issue?---Well, obviously it's not a trivial issue. It's - I don't believe it's such an urgent issue that when it was identified after the emergency yesterday that it needed to be fixed immediately. However, it is something that needed urgent attention.
PN108
But you would agree that a person - and I understand it was your HR manager - advising Mr O'Sullivan that it was a trivial issue is very much the wrong message to give, isn't it?---Yes. I don't believe he would have said that but if - yes, that would have been the wrong message to give.
PN109
MR GERARD: Commissioner, it would be more appropriate to ask Mr O'Sullivan that question rather than Mr Zietsman. He wasn't present.
PN110
MR CONROY: Well, Mr Zietsman is the person with ultimate responsibility at the mine, Commissioner. Anyway I'm not pressing that. I've got no further questions, thanks, Commissioner.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XXN MR CONROY
PN111
PN112
MR MOORHEAD: Mr Zietsman, it's Evan Moorhead from the AMWU. I too have a few questions. Mr Zietsman, you have referred to previous stoppages by the AMWU. Do you recall that the last stoppage was also about mines rescue?---That's correct, yes.
PN113
It was to do with - it was actually before the Commission as currently constituted and it dealt with - - -
PN114
THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Deane from memory.
PN115
MR MOORHEAD: Sorry?
PN116
THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Deane it was from memory.
PN117
MR MOORHEAD: It dealt with concerns that the employees had about the refusal of the company to provide mines rescue training?---Yes. What actually happened was that one of the rescue team members was a member of your union and was supposed to attend a rescue training was called back on the day of the rescue training and told that he couldn't attend because there was - there were two or three absenteeisms - absentee records in his area that day and they required him to do some fairly urgent work at the workshop.
PN118
And when was that stoppage, Mr - - - ?---I think it was October - was it? I think it was - I can't remember exactly, but I think it was around about October.
PN119
Now, you mentioned that there was another stoppage by the AMWU; when was that?---No, not by the AMWU, but the CEPU.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XXN MR MOORHEAD
PN120
So there has only been - in the time that you've been at the pit there has only been one stoppage by the AMWU?---Yes, that's correct.
PN121
Mr Zietsman, it would be concerning to you that they didn't - that their problem with the microwave wasn't identified until the emergency occurred, is it? Wouldn't that - is that correct?---That's correct, yes.
PN122
Isn't that a serious downfall in the safety system that you have, if that emergency can occur without you knowing that that microwave problem existed?---It is an area of concern and it's obviously something that we will address to ensure that we have got some kind of a backup that indicates that to us. But we were doing our weekly tests and we were happy that that was a good enough system to ensure that we had 100 per cent availability on the system. But obviously this has now proved to us that that is most certainly not the case.
PN123
So why wasn't the failure in the system identified in this week's - or why wasn't the failure in the test this week reported to you?---The test was conducted, but in questioning the guys that actually did the test - what they actually do is we have a test at 8 o'clock every morning where the production guys activate the alarm system, everyone is notified that it's a test, and they conduct the - they actually activate the alarm system and they get then feedback on the electronic system as to whether the test was successful or not. And it appears that the test was conducted on Monday. However, they can not verify to me at this stage whether or not the alarm perfectly went off at Workshop 1 because all indications on speaking to people at Workshop 1, they don't recall the alarm going off during the test on Monday morning. So that's something that we've got to investigate.
PN124
You would agree that that would also be a matter of serious concern for the employees in question?---It would be. And if we had known about the fact that the test alarm hadn't sounded on Monday we could have started the process on Monday.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XXN MR MOORHEAD
PN125
It's also true that the rescue team have raised with you concerns about the reliability of the pagers?---Yes, that is so. We had a number of issues with pagers. We have now just gone through a process of replacing the pagers with an upgraded model. And, to my knowledge, all the guys have now just received their latest upgraded pagers.
PN126
But they were always a fall-back position only to the alarm in question?---No, not at all. The ..... to guys. Because they are at any area on the site at any time, the pager for a lot of them is the prime response. Obviously they - when they're out in the field they've got their radios, which will give indication to them. But the moment that the emergency call is made, the pagers are also activated with a message as to where the emergency is, which gives them obviously a little bit more information than the radio would at that stage.
PN127
But you were fortunate in this instance though, weren't you, that the mines rescue personnel were all in the training room or conducting rescue - - - ?---We did have five of the members that were called out in the training room. They were conducting certain training so they were right at the truck which was very convenient. We also had two of our operators up in the Ramp 10 area, which is adjacent to the area where the accident occurred, notified on their pagers and they were in fact the first guys that got to it - ..... metres away.
PN128
Mr Zietsman, would you consider that a phone call is a reliable notification of an emergency of this nature?---Could you just repeat that?
PN129
In respect of the interim arrangement, Mr Zietsman, would you consider that a phone call is a reliable method of notifying an emergency of this nature?---It most certainly is because it's positive communication. The guy in the control room would speak in person directly to the supervisor responsible for activating the switch or the alarm button at the workshop.
PN130
What about the occasion when the supervisor might be on the phone?---Well, then his radio will alarm and he will know that there is an emergency.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XXN MR MOORHEAD
PN131
But he wouldn't get the phone call though, would he?---Well, if his phone call was engaged, no, he wouldn't. If his phone wasn't - if his phone line was engaged, he wouldn't.
PN132
Goonyella Riverside has a voicemail system though, doesn't it?---That's correct.
PN133
So there would be a - the production operator would actually get the voicemail system of the phone?---He would. However, he would continue to call him until he did make contact with him. And there is also an alternative number in the workshop that if for any reason 4277 is engaged he could - he would contact the other number at the workshop.
PN134
Now, Mr Conroy asked you about why it took so long for the microwave to be examined. My question is why did it take so long for the interim arrangement to be put in place?---Well, in - firstly, the ..... team that did the debriefing and - up until this morning when I spoke to Rabbit, I was not aware of the fact that the - that there was actually a problem with the alarm at Goonyella. So when I contacted Greg Muir, who is the rescue trainer, after the - after I got the call from Rabbit, he indicated to me, yes, that they had noted it, it wasn't raised as a major issue and they had it on the agenda to have - investigate it today and rectify it.
PN135
But given that the microwave system - the alarm obviously wasn't working, the arrangement which you say was put in place in less than an hour could have easily been put in place yesterday, though, or this morning for that matter?---Well, we prioritised as such and we were aware of it. We could possibly have reacted it - reacted and started the process yesterday, yes.
PN136
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XXN MS ROGERS
PN137
MS ROGERS: Thank you, Commissioner.
PN138
My name is Pat Rogers. I'm from the CEPU, Mr Zietsman. I just have a couple of questions I want to ask you about the testing process that you undertake in relation to the alarms?---Yes.
PN139
You've said that the alarms are tested on Monday every week?---Yes.
PN140
And that this week you're not sure if the alarm at Workshop 1 actually worked?---Yes.
PN141
Given that you know that there's an electronic component and a microwave component, can you explain to me how your procedures have allowed this failure in the alarm to develop?---Sorry, could you just repeat that last part of the question?
PN142
Maybe I - there's an electronic component to the alarm?---Yes.
PN143
Which is on the building; is that correct?---Yes.
PN144
And there's a microwave component?---Yes.
PN145
And that's the line that runs to the building?---Yes.
PN146
And it's the microwave component that has failed?---That's what we're assuming at this stage.
PN147
Okay. The procedures that you have for testing relies on feedback on an electronic system; is that correct?---Yes.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XXN MS ROGERS
PN148
And yet it's clear that you've had positive feedback on the electronic system and yet the alarm didn't sound?---Yes, well, when we did the actual test with the alarms this afternoon, we - something fairly strange came to the fore in that when the production guys pressed the button that is supposed to alarm both the Goonyella and the Riverside industrial areas, the Riverside alarm comes on without any problems at all. And normally what's supposed to happen is once the Riverside one comes on the Goonyella one comes on. However, if you, in remote, activate the Goonyella Riverside one under the code scenario, that also activates the one at Riverside. So it's one of these electronic things that we're not quite sure as to why it's not giving us the correct feedback.
PN149
Do you, in your procedures, have any sort of process that allows you to check with employees that they actually heard the alarm?---Well, we do an alarm check at 8 o'clock every morning and we normally do have a rescue person in the Workshop 1 area. And if the alarm didn't sound at 8 o'clock he would, under normal circumstances, contact the production guys and find out why the alarm hasn't sounded or - - -
PN150
So - - - ?--- - - - whether or not they conducted the test.
PN151
So was there a rescue person in Workshop 1 this Monday just gone?---No, there wasn't, because Jerry Condon, who is the guy in the Workshop 1 that is the representative, he was in fact, I think, part of that training group.
PN152
So, in fact, part of your safety procedure wasn't followed on Monday in relation to the testing of your alarms; is that correct?---I can't say for sure, but we are looking at that and that is a possibility.
PN153
Well, let me put it to you another way, Mr Zietsman. If the person who was normally there to physically check that the alarm sounded wasn't there, are you aware of another employee being given that task and providing that feedback?---No, I'm not.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XXN MS ROGERS
PN154
Who would be aware whether anyone had been given that task and provide that feedback?---Look, normally when they do the alarm testing, the person giving the feedback if the alarm doesn't go on is just a backup. The actual testing of the system indicates to the technicians whether or not it's working and that is whereby they - that is the process that they use to determine whether or not it's working. The fact that we've got rescue guys in all the areas who are aware of the fact that we do our testing at 8 o'clock in the morning - they would contact production if the alarms did not go off at 8 o'clock on a Monday morning. And obviously inquire as to whether or not the emergency was - the test - emergency was done.
PN155
Okay. So who would be aware whether or not there was a rescue person at Workshop 1 who was required to provide that feedback in relation to whether the alarm had in fact sounded?---Well, on Monday there was not a rescue person at Workshop 1 because they were conducting training. And Jerry Condon, who is the guy that's normally there, was working in an adjacent area fairly close to Workshop 1 where we started some of the demolition work of the Goonyella infrastructure.
PN156
So, in fact, your safety procedure on Monday wasn't followed in relation to the checking for the alarm in Workshop 1?---It was followed. The test was conducted. I'm just not sure why we didn't get the correct information out of the system.
PN157
Mr Zietsman, I'm going to try this just one more time: did you have an employee, whose responsibility it was to provide feedback to whoever is responsible for the alarm system at your mine, listening to hear if the alarm at Workshop 1 sounded?---We - I can't say if there was somebody there. I know that the guy that normally does it wasn't in the workshop on that day.
PN158
Okay. Do you know for sure someone was at the workshop and provided that feedback?---No, I don't.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN XXN MS ROGERS
PN159
Thank you, Mr Zietsman.
PN160
PN161
MR GERARD: Just a few in re-examination, Commissioner.
PN162
Mr Zietsman - oh, sorry. Just wait until we transfer the microphone, Mr Zietsman. Mr Zietsman, just taking that last question from Ms Rogers; now, who actually does the daily testing? Where does that testing emanate?---From - it's not daily testing. It's Monday morning testing.
PN163
Right?---And it's done at 8 o'clock from the - the control room at Riverside.
PN164
So it's not - because I thought you said a couple of times, and I wrote it down, that every morning at 8 o'clock you do a test. So it's only once a week on a Monday, is it?---Monday mornings at 8 o'clock.
PN165
Okay, thanks. And that - you said that test is generated from the control room?---That's correct.
PN166
Does your procedure actually specify that a mines rescue person has to be in attendance?---No.
PN167
And how - if the mines rescue person wasn't in attendance, how would the person in the control room know that the alarm worked?---As far as I know, the actual electronic testing system will indicate to you whether or not the alarm sounded.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN RXN MR GERARD
PN168
So there's an indicator that says it worked?---That's correct, yes.
PN169
Now, Mr Zietsman, Mr Conroy has taken you through a number of scenarios in relation to reasons why the procedure that you put in place today wasn't put in place yesterday. If we could go back to your earlier evidence relating to what transpired, so we can all be very clear as to what happened yesterday morning when the incident occurred. Now, we're all aware that the alarm at workshop 1 at Goonyella didn't go off?---Yes, that's correct.
PN170
MR CONROY: Commissioner, I don't believe this was the subject of any cross-examination.
PN171
THE COMMISSIONER: Re-examination? Oh, sorry, it didn't arise in cross-examination?
PN172
MR CONROY: I don't believe so.
PN173
THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Gerard, do you want to just jog my memory as to where this has its location in cross-examination?
PN174
MR GERARD: It arose at the initial part of Mr Conroy's cross-examination, Commissioner, where he mentioned the debriefing at 2 o'clock, and Mr Zietsman then outlined the reasons why it wasn't done that afternoon. And what I'm asking him - the fact that it wasn't done in the afternoon - what bore the alternate means that came into play, that made people aware that there was an emergency? Because he then went on in further parts of his cross-examination, Commissioner, to indicate that the new process, the interim arrangements, went into place 3 o'clock this afternoon, then asked - sorry, prior to that, he said, "in hindsight, we could have got someone investigating yesterday pm".
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN RXN MR GERARD
PN175
What I'm trying to draw is that despite the fact that that main alarm didn't go, that there were stand-by or other systems that also notified. And I want to get that clear, because I think that the evidence has been a bit confusing, in the sense that the Union seem to be saying that because the alarm failed yesterday, that was a breakdown in the system. Yet, through his testimony, Mr Zietsman has indicated that there are two-way radios that sound alarms, either in vehicles or in fixed-plant in workshop 1, he indicated. There are also pagers and he also indicated that in the workshop, that there were people who also had pagers. So there was a number of ways to notify.
PN176
THE COMMISSIONER: You may have answered your own question there, I suspect.
PN177
MR CONROY: Very well.
PN178
THE COMMISSIONER: Do you want to cross-examine?
PN179
MR CONROY: In you go, fellows.
PN180
THE COMMISSIONER: Now, I think those matters had come out before, I think, in Mr Zietsman's original testimony and I'm informed of those. But is that the question you, again, wish to ask?
PN181
MR GERARD: I simply want to - given the questions that have been asked from my friends, Commissioner, that, despite that alarm not going off, that there were back-up systems in place that allowed people at workshop 1 to be notified of the incident.
PN182
THE COMMISSIONER: Well, I think reference was made in Mr Zietsman's response, and I think it was in relation to cross-examination of the rescue vehicle moving past the workshop at 9.02, which gives it some linkage to the question that you want to ask. So if you wish to now ask as a consequence of that, whether any other means, other than the passage the vehicle passed the workshop number 1 at 9.02am, you're entitled to ask that question.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN RXN MR GERARD
PN183
MR CONROY: Commissioner, can I just say something about that? Commissioner, none of our questions, or none of my questions, as far I can recollect, were about the alternative arrangements that were in place yesterday morning. So I am failing to see how this is material that is linked to cross-examination. I know there was an answer given with respect to the workshop vehicle driving past - - -
PN184
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, but wasn't that about - sorry, I mean, I'm perfectly happy to have my memory jogged - but wasn't that a matter about people being alerted to the workshop - the workshop being alerted to the emergency, if I remember?
PN185
MR CONROY: I think you are correct there, Commissioner, but I don't think my question was in relation to the alternative means.
PN186
THE COMMISSIONER: So the information came out from Mr Zietsman - - -
PN187
MR CONROY: The information did come out - - -
PN188
THE COMMISSIONER: - - - in that respect, but your originating question wasn't about that?
PN189
MR CONROY: I don't believe it was, Commissioner. Look, however, I'm not going to stand here and - - -
PN190
THE COMMISSIONER: No, no, no. That's - - -
PN191
MR CONROY: - - - try and argue that my memory is better than anyone else's. But I would just also make the point that I thought that the alternative arrangements were raised in examination in chief by Mr Gerard.
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN RXN MR GERARD
PN192
THE COMMISSIONER: Well, there's some contest over this issue, Mr Gerard. Do you want to continue to pursue it?
PN193
MR GERARD: If I ask the question that you just mentioned, Commissioner, that: Mr Zietsman, after the vehicle passed the workshop, I think you mentioned some two minutes after 9, I think - - - ?---Yes, that's correct.
PN194
Were there any other means, or would people have been notified by any other means at the workshop, of the incident, despite that siren going off?
PN195
THE COMMISSIONER: Is this question still troubling you, Mr Conroy, as a restatement of the original one.
PN196
MR CONROY: Commissioner, I'll just let it go.
PN197
THE COMMISSIONER: I have to say that we don't want to get too bogged down in the process, but the question you're asking, Mr Gerard, is one that, I think, I did get a reasonable feel for in the evidence in chief and, in addition, by the information that came out of the cross-examination about the various means by which people in respect of the particular incident that arose, were informed. If I remember, there was a two-way radio - the alarm system of the two-way radio, the now upgraded pager system and the self-evidence movement of the truck of the rescue people. Now, I don't think you're going to take me to much more than that, are you?
PN198
MR GERARD: I'm satisfied with what you've said, Commissioner. I'm just simply trying to - - -
PN199
THE COMMISSIONER: Well, all of that arises earlier. It doesn't probably need to be - - -
**** BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN RXN MR GERARD
PN200
MR GERARD: I have nothing further, Commissioner.
PN201
THE COMMISSIONER: - - - pulled out again or extracted again through re-examination.
PN202
MR GERARD: Yes, I have nothing further.
PN203
THE COMMISSIONER: So nothing else? Witness can be excused?
PN204
MR GERARD: Yes.
PN205
PN206
THE COMMISSIONER: Now - - -
PN207
MR GERARD: I have no further evidence, Commissioner.
PN208
THE COMMISSIONER: Good, thanks. Well, we'll now turn to Mr Conroy.
PN209
MR CONROY: Thanks Commissioner. All right, now I'll call Mr Dan O'Sullivan.
PN210
MR CONROY: Mr O'Sullivan, it's Tim Conroy here?---Yes, Tim.
PN211
I'm just going to ask you a few questions?---Yes, mate.
PN212
First of all, could you outline for the Commission what your position within the Goonyella Riverside Lodge of the CFMEU is?---My position in the CFMEU Goonyella Riverside Lodge is Vice President, Junior.
PN213
And were you on shift today?---No.
PN214
Okay?---I was chairing a delegates' meeting - our monthly delegates' meeting this morning, Tim.
PN215
And where was that located?---At the union office in Mills Avenue in Moranbah.
PN216
Okay. Mr O'Sullivan, could you please outline for the Commission the events, as far as you're aware, that have led to this stoppage?---Yes. This morning, when conducting our monthly delegates' meeting, it was brought to my attention by one of our rescue delegates of the incident that happened yesterday with Thiess Contractors, and the - it was brought to our attention that the emergency alarm siren on workshop 1 was not active during that emergency, and I - I - we questioned him about it; we went into some discussions with the delegates. I said to the delegates, "I will go and notify the Mine Manager, Ben Zietsman" I rang Ben at 11.30 and asked him if he knew that the siren on Workshop 1 Building was inoperable, and he said he didn't know; he'd get back to me in five to 10 minutes. I said, "Yes, not a problem". While we were waiting, my delegates had done a notice of motion up to take some stoppage. Anyway, Ben did get back to me within five to 10 minutes and I asked - I said, "Is the siren fixed at Goonyella - at Workshop 1?" and he said, "No, it's not". I said, "Is it being fixed at the moment?" He said, "No". I said, "Okay, thanks very much". I then said, "Are they looking at it?" He said, "We're looking at
**** DANIEL O'SULLIVAN XN MR CONROY
it, but we're having trouble with it". I said, "Okay". That when I informed him that we were going on a 24-hour stoppage, which we did. Fifteen minutes later I then had Keith Reid on the phone, the HR Manager for Goonyella Riverside. He wanted to know what was going on. I told Keith what - the conversation I'd had with Ben Zietsman. He wasn't quite happy with it, hung up in my ear. I - and then rang Production at Goonyella Riverside, which coordinates the trucking and the - all the runnings of the mine, and lets them know to instruct our members to come home, which they did. The come home to - come back to the - everyone come back to the union office in Mills Avenue and we had a stop-work meeting to let our members know what - why they were on strike to - in regards to the siren. That was put there, and then a - an amendment to the recommendation was that it was for 48 hours, because there - during that, some people in the electrical division and that, come and spoke to us and said that apparently the test on Monday mornings that's normally at 8 o'clock goes off; automatically, the test of the emergency procedure as in place and operational didn't go off on Monday morning over at the Workshop 1, and with the scenario with the Thiess incident, it still wasn't working, and Thiess was Wednesday - still wasn't working, and then today still not working, so that's why we're going - we're taking action, and that's where we are now.
PN217
And Mr O'Sullivan, can you advise the Commission what the concern was about the alarm not working?---The alarm not working, the concern to the rank and file is that is a - a siren to go off that's heard all across the Goonyella side, around the workshop area, wash plants, service bay, the whole bucket shop; anyone in there - if that siren goes off, you're to go to a marshalling area, stay put while that emergency beacon is going off, so heads to be counted and to say that everything is safe - everyone is safe; no one there - around there is hurt; and the rescue people know that there isn't a - an accident in progress, and they're to go to the appropriate fire trucks, ambulances, whatever machinery - water trucks, graders, whatever is needed to help in that incident, to go to the incident to put it out. The only time that siren is to be turned off, so I've been told today, is by recommendation of the rescue captain or coordinator of that incident.
PN218
And who gave you that advice?---That come from the rescue captain, Jerry Condon.
**** DANIEL O'SULLIVAN XN MR CONROY
PN219
And Mr O'Sullivan, if the alarm is not working, is there any other way for people to be aware they're immediately to go to the muster area to be counted?---No, not unless you're old school and just know that there's a marshalling - marshalling point at the workshop, to get out of the workshop and just marshall out the front of it so everyone can be counted.
PN220
Could you outline for the Commission if there's any other signal to indicate that you have to go to the muster area in such a situation?---No. I can't.
PN221
Just bear with me a moment, Mr O'Sullivan?---No worries, Tim.
PN222
What's the feeling of the membership with respect to the importance of this alarm from a safety point of view?---Tim, could you say that again? We've got a bad connection up this end.
PN223
Sure. What is the feeling of the membership with respect to the importance of this alarm, from a safety point of view?---Safety point of view, is that alarm is there for our rank and file members to know that there's an incident in place, for our rescue teams to go to their appropriate stations to collect their fire trucks, ambulances - whatever else is needed, as I just described - and just the safety and well-being of the work force of the mine. If that siren doesn't go off over there, no one knows there's an incident anywhere. I could be dead - hurt, down at Goonyella at Ramp 32, and if that siren doesn't go off at Goonyella, I've got to wait, probably, 10, 12 minutes before someone comes from Riverside all the way over to Goonyella, and they've just driven past our rescue teams in the Goonyella Workshop that don't know that there's an incident happening.
PN224
Thanks, Mr O'Sullivan. I've got no further questions at this stage?---Can I just say something?
PN225
No, you can't, I'm afraid?---Righto.
**** DANIEL O'SULLIVAN XN MR CONROY
PN226
THE COMMISSIONER: Unless Mr Conroy knows the question.
PN227
MR CONROY: Yes.
PN228
THE WITNESS: It's still not rectified here, the siren.
PN229
PN230
MR MOORHEAD: Mr O'Sullivan, it's Evan Moorhead from the AMWU. I just have a few questions?---Yes.
PN231
Mr O'Sullivan, who is the alarm intended to notify?---Rescue personnel.
PN232
And so it's not just the employees working in the workshop?---No, it's the rescue personnel to get to their equipment.
PN233
PN234
MR GERARD: Mr O'Sullivan, which part of the mine do you work in at Goonyella? It's Greg Gerard, by the way?---Greg Gerard - how are you going?
PN235
Good, mate?---I'm a dragline operator; I'm on holiday relief on C Crew, and my - as I'm an operator of a dragline, but my job entails me - I can go from one end of the lease to the other end of the lease, because I'm holiday relief. I just fill in where the gaps are.
**** DANIEL O'SULLIVAN XXN MR GERARD
PN236
So you don't actually work at Goonyella Riverside Workshop 1?---No.
PN237
Well, seeing you work around the mine, are you aware that when there is an alarm, that the two-way radios sound an alarm?---Not everyone has got a two-way radio on them in the workshop.
PN238
No, but are you aware that when the alarm sounds, that a - - -?---Yes.
PN239
Right?---A beeper goes off.
PN240
Are you aware that there is a permanently mounted radio in the workshop?---Yes, but it's not turned on all the time, so I've been told.
PN241
But you don't know that yourself?---I've been told by our delegates.
PN242
Are there vehicles around that workshop that also have two-way radios in them?---Sometimes. Most of them are out in the field, 12-7, and that are out in the field.
PN243
Now, you've given evidence to the effect that the primary purpose, as I understand you correctly, the purpose of the alarm is to alert the rescue team; is that what you're saying?---The rescue team?
PN244
Are you aware that the - - -
PN245
MR CONROY: Commissioner, that actually wasn't the evidence that Mr O'Sullivan gave.
**** DANIEL O'SULLIVAN XXN MR GERARD
PN246
MR GERARD: Well, Mr O'Sullivan, Mr Conroy asked you in examination-in-chief what was the purpose of the notification, the alarm, as I understand it?---Yes.
PN247
What is your response to that?---Response to that is for the rescue personnel in that area.
PN248
The rescue personnel?---And the employees, in the awareness of an emergency is taking place.
PN249
So it's awareness for the employees - - -?---That an emergency is taking place.
PN250
Right. But what's the primary reason?---To notify the rescue crew that there is an incident.
PN251
Right. Are you aware that the rescue crew all wear pagers in addition to any alarm system?---Am I aware?
PN252
Yes?---I'm aware some of them have got pagers; not all.
PN253
Have you personally seen - spoken to every one of them and asked them if they've got pagers or not?---No.
PN254
So would you agree with me that at that workshop, a scenario could arise that there are two-way radios - fixed two-way radios in that workshop; there are vehicles that could be in the workshop; and a rescue team member in the workshop with a pager on, so that if the alarm didn't work, all of those other devices would work, or could work?---Well, each time I - most of the time I've been over there I haven't seen too many work vehicles around the workshop. And the two-ways; they're not manned 24 hours over there.
**** DANIEL O'SULLIVAN XXN MR GERARD
PN255
No, but aren't - are they left on?---Or the phones. No one is in that workshop 24/7.
PN256
Are those two-way radios left on?---Turned down.
PN257
Turned down. You're saying that there's not always someone in that workshop?---In that workshop office where you're saying that the two-ways are and where the light vehicle's supposed to be.
PN258
Right. Now, going back to the start of your examination - your evidence-in-chief I should say, sorry - you indicated that you rang Mr Zietsman around about - - - ?---11.30.
PN259
11.30. And he said he was going to come back to you in 10 minutes, was it?---Yes.
PN260
Right. And you said that despite the fact that he wasn't aware of the alarm at Workshop 1 not being activated - - - ?---Yes.
PN261
- - - and he said he would get back to you; is that correct?---No. I rang him at 11.30.
PN262
Yes?---I said - I told him what the situation was. He said I will ring you back in 10 minutes, I will find out for you, Rabbit. I said yes, no worries. He did get back to me. I asked is it fixed. He said no.
PN263
Sorry, did you ask Mr Zietsman if he was aware that when the emergency was called yesterday morning that the alarm at Workshop 1 did not sound?---Did I ask him that?
**** DANIEL O'SULLIVAN XXN MR GERARD
PN264
Yes?---No.
PN265
You didn't ask him that?---No.
PN266
So - - - ?---I indicated that to him when I rang him.
PN267
You said that the alarm didn't sound?---The alarm didn't sound.
PN268
Did you ask him if he was aware that it didn't sound?---I can't recall.
PN269
You can't recall. So why did he say I'll ring you back in 10 minutes?---Because I explained to him that it didn't go off.
PN270
So if you explained to him why it didn't go off why did he say I'll ring you back in 10 minutes?---Because with the debrief they had with the rescue team, where I was told that the alarm did not go off, I was ringing him to ask him that - to tell him that it didn't go off and I was asking him does he know - has it been fixed. He said I will get back to you, I didn't know it was broken. I said righto, thank you very much. And he got back to me, told me that it was still not fixed and they were working on it. And I said righto, okay.
PN271
So - yes. Sorry, you said he said I didn't know it was broken; is that what he said?---Yes.
PN272
Okay. So he didn't know that it hadn't gone off?---Yes.
PN273
So you've rung the mine manager, he says that I didn't know that there was a problem with the alarm, or he didn't know that the alarm didn't go off; you agree with that?---He didn't know?
**** DANIEL O'SULLIVAN XXN MR GERARD
PN274
Yes. And you also indicated in your examination-in-chief that while you were waiting for Mr Zietsman to ring back that the delegates had already drawn up a notice of motion to go on strike?---They put a recommendation up.
PN275
To go on strike?---Yes.
PN276
Before he even rang you back?---Yes.
PN277
Are you aware of the reason why the alarm hasn't gone off?---Am I aware?
PN278
Yes?---I am now, after the facts.
PN279
And what do you understand to be the reason why it didn't go off?---There's a - what we were told by - who was it - Bob - that there's a breakdown with the electrical side of it from the signal getting from the Riverside starting point over to Goonyella. It works manually now by the turning and pushing of the buttons to activate it, but it's still - at that time when we were talking to Mr Jarrod that the electrical side was still not working.
PN280
Mr O'Sullivan?---Yes?
PN281
You indicated that if someone got hurt out in the mine you could wait for a fair while before someone approached you, or words to that effect; do you recall that?---Yes.
PN282
Are you aware that the first people at the Thiess incident - or accident I should say, because it was an accident - were actually BMA employees from Ramp 10?---Yes, yes.
**** DANIEL O'SULLIVAN XXN MR GERARD
PN283
So how would have they have heard about the incident?---Don't know.
PN284
So you don't know if their pager went off?---No.
PN285
You don't whether they heard the alarm on the two-way?---No.
PN286
Right. Mr O'Sullivan, are you aware if the membership have established or are intending to establish a picket at the gates or at the junction of Goonyella Riverside mine?---No. I've been - I have not left this union office all day.
PN287
Do you know if any direct has been given by ..... officials to start a picket?---No.
PN288
Nothing further, Commissioner.
PN289
MR CONROY: Nothing arises, thanks, Commissioner.
PN290
THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Moorhead, Ms Rogers?
PN291
MR MOORHEAD: Nothing further.
PN292
MS ROGERS: No, Commissioner.
PN293
PN294
MR CONROY: You there, Rabbit?
PN295
MR O'SULLIVAN: Yes.
PN296
MR CONROY: Yes. You can stay on line at this stage, but - - -
PN297
MR O'SULLIVAN: Yes.
PN298
MR CONROY: - - - you're just not to say anything further, mate. Thank you.
PN299
MR O'SULLIVAN: Thanks, mate.
PN300
MR CONROY: Commissioner, if I could call Mr Smyth at this stage, thanks.
PN301
THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Smyth, I'm just going to administer an affirmation. Can you please state your full name and address?
PN302
MR SMYTH: Yes. It is Steven Alan John Smyth. (Address supplied)
PN303
THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
PN304
MR CONROY: Mr Smyth, it's Tim Conroy speaking. I'm just going to ask you a few questions if I might?---Yes.
PN305
Mr Smyth, could you advise the Commission what your occupation is, please?---My occupation or my title is I'm an industry safety and health direct and my occupation with that gives me powers and functions under the Coal Mining Safety and Health Act.
PN306
And could you outline for the Commission what some of your powers and functions are, please?---My powers and functions under the Coal Mining Act allow me to carry out investigations into accidents, serious incidents, inspect the coal mines, to check the level of the risk of new procedures, detect unsafe practices, ..... complaints from coal mine workers, and generally to help initiations and inquiries about the health and safety of coal mine workers.
PN307
And, Mr Smyth, did you attend Goonyella Riverside open cut coal mine yesterday?---Yes, I did. I was notified by the mine early in the morning there had been an accident at the mine site and I attended the site to participate in the investigation and see what went on.
PN308
Could you advise the Commission what role you had while you were there?---My role while I was on site was to follow up on the accident that occurred. Also, with the Department of Natural Resources' Inspectors to go out to the sites and view the accident site and at the end of this go back in with management and sit down and look at an action plan and what - where they went forth from there.
**** STEVEN ALAN JOHN SMYTH XN MR CONROY
PN309
And do you have any knowledge with respect to issues associated with the siren yesterday?---Yes, I did. When I got to the mine site, while waiting for the Mines Inspector, I sat in on a debrief which was being held with Mines Rescue people. I was only in that debrief approximately 10 or 15 minutes when the inspectors arrived, but it was raised in the debrief by members of the Mine Rescue about some deficiencies that had been recorded with the siren not working in some locations and some people having trouble hearing it.
PN310
And in your role as an industry safety and health representative what is your understanding of the role that the sirens play?---Well, the siren is an important part of the emergency response at any coal mine, and with regards to an open cut coal mine where you have got blast areas where people work and they work in different locations, the emergency siren is an important part in the event of emergency, that people are: (1) aware that an incident occurred, and the second one is it allows them then to either remove themself to a place of safety or take appropriate action.
PN311
And what would be your view with respect to the safety of coal mine workers, if that siren was not working?---Well, if the siren is not working it means that the mine has not got a fully-functioning emergency response capability because an important part of your emergency response capability is communication and the siren, as does a two-way radio, an open cut makes a major part of that, and if the system is not working then the system is ineffective, which in return means that as far as the legislation goes you have got - you have not got compliance to it. Of course, a part of the emergency response system is to run regular, or a test, testing that your system, ensuring that the procedures work for one, and that the fitness of equipment if used in an emergency is available, and included in that would be your sirens, you two-ways, etcetera.
PN312
Would it be possible in the absence of a siren for there to be other measures in place that would result in appropriate level of risk?---Not from my perspective unless each individual on the mine site had their own pager or some other method where they could be alerted in the event of emergency, but I don't see ..... and mines - coal mines around the industry, both open cut and underground, have emergency-type sirens in place so that if there is an incident then everyone is made aware of it.
**** STEVEN ALAN JOHN SMYTH XN MR CONROY
PN313
Mr Smyth, is there anything further you can advise the Commission about how the company have dealt with this issue?---No, at this stage the incident is still under investigation, but from my perspective, my position - disappointed at this stage with the way the investigation has gone. We - our local health and safety reps which have power to function under the Act, who are to be involved in the investigation today had been put on a the back-burner a bit in regards to the investigation, so we intend to carry on our own investigation starting Monday morning.
PN314
And what would you say with respect to a coal mine's compliance with the requirements of the legislation if the siren isn't working?---I believe there is not - they have got - they don't comply with what the legislation requires. Also, it is a requirement of people within the mine, both the mine operator, senior site executives, and people generally, and especially the coal mine operator to have an acceptable level of risk in the workplace and this means providing a safe place of work. And I believe that if you haven't got a functioning siren in place as a part of your emergency response system then you have got non-compliance.
PN315
Could you just describe for the Commission when you say non-compliance, non-compliance - - - ?--- With the regulations, in regards to certain regulations, but also with regards to people, they have got obligations under the Coal Mining Act, and those obligations include providing safe places of work and safe procedures and that sort of aspect. So if they have not provided that, then they haven't fulfilled their obligations and that is where the non-compliance comes as legislation.
PN316
I have got no further questions, thanks Mr Smyth, at this stage?---Not a problem.
PN317
THE COMMISSIONER: Can I just - Mr Smyth, it is Commissioner Richards - can I just ask you just one or two questions?---Yes.
**** STEVEN ALAN JOHN SMYTH XN MR CONROY
PN318
That is what avenues does the Coal Mining Safety and Health Act provide for dispute resolution?---With regards to dispute resolution it doesn't really outline any real avenues. There is, I suppose - and it is not written in the legislation - there are processes both industry safety and health reps and Department inspectors, and we have on occasions go to mine site and sit down with the senior mine manager predominantly, the SSE, and work through an issue, and go through that aspect.
PN319
If there is a dispute over a matter of safety, through what procedure is that dispute managed?---That dispute is normally managed at a site level initially between the site safety and health rep and safety - or senior manager from the mines. If they get no satisfaction there, then they can either contact myself or an industry safety and health rep, or again, the Department of Mines Inspectors, and then we can intervene and go through the process then depending on what the issue is.
PN320
Okay, thank you?---Not a problem.
PN321
MR CONROY: Nothing arises from that for me, thanks, Commissioner.
PN322
PN323
MR MOORHEAD: Mr Smyth, Evan Moorhead from the AMWU?---Yes.
PN324
Mr Smyth, who is affected by the inoperative nature of the siren?---All coal mines workers, mate, whoever works on that mine site.
PN325
And - - -?---Who rely on that siren. That would be depending on where the location is, the coal mine workers there, mate.
**** STEVEN ALAN JOHN SMYTH XXN MR MOORHEAD
PN326
And are those persons, in your opinion, subject to an acceptable level of risk in that case?---If it is not working, I believe, yes, I believe they are exposed to an unacceptable level of risk, yes, if it is not working.
PN327
Thank you, Commissioner.
PN328
THE COMMISSIONER: Ms Rogers?
PN329
MS ROGERS: Commissioner, I have no questions.
PN330
THE COMMISSIONER: Good, thanks. Mr Gerard?
PN331
PN332
MR GERARD: Mr Smyth, it is Greg Gerard from BHP Coal?---Yes.
PN333
You mentioned in examination-in-chief from Mr Conroy that you attended the debrief?---Yes.
PN334
I couldn't hear you clearly; what time did you actually attend that?---That debrief was approximately 2.20.
PN335
Okay?---Around - between 2 and 2.20 when they commenced it.
PN336
Right. Now, you have indicated in response to some questions from Mr Conroy that in your opinion - sorry, just bear with me?---Yes.
**** STEVEN ALAN JOHN SMYTH XXN MR GERARD
PN337
Yes, sorry, that in the absence of a siren that in your view there wouldn't be an acceptable level of risk; is that correct?---Yes, that is my belief, yes.
PN338
Has there been any directive issued by any statutory person in relation to this particular incident, the siren?---Not that I am aware at this stage.
PN339
You mentioned that in your opinion that it was that you didn't comply with the regulations. Which regulation are you talking about?---Regulation 35 of the Coal Mining Safety and Health Regulations. It is built in as a part of your emergency response system, sirens and emergency numbers are built into a part of that.
PN340
Right, thank you. But you said emergency sirens?---Yes.
PN341
Plural?---Pardon? I missed that bit.
PN342
Yes. You mentioned emergency sirens, plural, s-i-r-e-n-s?---Siren. Siren I should have said.
PN343
Siren, okay. Are you aware at Goonyella Riverside that there is a back-up system whereby an alarm, like a siren, is sounded through the two-way radio system?---Yes, that depends on - my understanding with the two-way system as a ..... there are numerous channels in the mine for its systems. I'm not aware at this stage about that - I know they have a - they call all sirens over the radio, as do most open cut mines where they have it built in. But I'm not aware of that particular incident.
PN344
So you're not aware that when the communication officer in the - production communication officer presses a button, it alerts - puts a siren over all two-way radios?---I'm aware of that.
**** STEVEN ALAN JOHN SMYTH XXN MR GERARD
PN345
Yes, okay, sorry?---I thought you were saying particularly about another system that the back-up system did - I'm aware of an initial one that they call "radio silence, emergency, emergency, emergency". But I thought you meant another back-up system for that.
PN346
So when they do that, what, in your understanding, happens - well, obviously the siren that we're talking about, the Workshop 1 siren and the Riverside siren, would operate?---Yes, if they're up - if they're functioning they will, yes, if connected.
PN347
Yes. And what else operates?---With that? I believe over the radio - over a siren that goes over the radio. And then there is radio silence called; that's my understanding. I haven't seen the system in operation, but that's my understanding of it.
PN348
And what about the pagers?---My understanding of the pagers is that they're only for mine rescue personnel.
PN349
Did you actually go to the Workshop 1?---No, I've not been to the workshop. I'm going out Monday morning.
PN350
Right?---The mines.
PN351
Okay. Have you been there before?---To Goonyella Riverside?
PN352
No, to Workshop 1 at Goonyella?---I've been to - yes, the workshops on site.
PN353
Yes. Are you aware that there's fixed two-way radios in those stores?---I'm aware there's - - -
**** STEVEN ALAN JOHN SMYTH XXN MR GERARD
PN354
In those areas?---I'm aware there's two-way radios there but I don't know what location they're at.
PN355
Yes. Are you aware that all light vehicles at Goonyella Riverside also carry two-way radios?---Yes, it's a mine site requirement.
PN356
Yes. And - - - ?---Very serious .....
PN357
And would there be vehicles around that workshop?---I could not say. You could assume that there would be but I couldn't be - verify that for sure.
PN358
Well, you'd assume if it's a workshop there would be vehicles there, wouldn't you, because - - - ?---There could be anything there, mate.
PN359
Yes. And that includes heavy equipment, doesn't it, being worked on in a workshop?---Yes.
PN360
All of which - - - ?---.....
PN361
Yes. All of which - - - ?---Hey?
PN362
All of which carry two-way radios?---Yes, as long as they're functioning.
PN363
PN364
In your understanding, Mr Smyth, what is the principal function of the siren?---The principal function is to - couple of functions. The main function is to - a siren pressed up to warn people or give indication there's been an incident or an accident. Included in that is then for people to respond to this incident or accident, whether - depending on the location, and it's also, as I previously said, to warn people something has happened, and people then need to either remove themselves to a place of safety or endeavour to find out what's gone on.
**** STEVEN ALAN JOHN SMYTH XXN MR GERARD
PN365
Right. Now, are you aware where the mines rescue truck capability emanates from Goonyella Riverside?---Not particularly where it's located. I do know on the day the mines rescue were training.
PN366
Do you know where they are training?---They were trained with the A trainer. I don't know the precise location.
PN367
You're not aware that it was next - adjacent to workshop 1 at Goonyella?---No, I'm not.
PN368
Right?---I know it took them approximately 10 minutes to get to the accident scene.
PN369
How far was that?---I could not tell you. As a part of the debrief with their times that they had left it was approximately 10 minutes from when they got the call or initial call to when they arrived, I believe.
PN370
Okay. Are you aware who the first people were from - apart from the Thiess people who were on the job, the BHP Coal employees that actually arrived at the accident?---No, I'm not at this stage. We're still waiting on the witness statements and that.
PN371
Okay, fine. Mr Smyth, are you aware that there is a process at Goonyella to test the sirens every Monday?---No, I'm not.
PN372
So you're not aware of that?---No, I - well, my understanding that - what I see is that the mine has a system in place, you know, for testing of - I'd say the mines are moved to a response capability, and this includes procedures and that type of stuff, but I'm not aware that they do it every Monday.
**** STEVEN ALAN JOHN SMYTH XXN MR GERARD
PN373
What is the requirement under the regulations?---For there to be carrying out of annual exercises of - to test effectiveness of emergency management procedures and readiness and fitness of equipment for use in an emergency, and they're planned exercises to be done.
PN374
So there's no act or regulation that says you have to test your system every week?---No, there's not, but it should be built into the mine systems.
PN375
Just the same as there is no statutory requirement for you to test your horn every time you get in the car every day, is there?---There actually is, mate, in an open cut coal mine, there is. If you're taking control of a vehicle, to test all the emergency appliances on that, and that includes testing the horn, the light and the brakes.
PN376
No, I mean, when you're in Mackay?---Yes, but we're talking about a coal mine, a certain set of regulations and rules that people must follow.
PN377
Yes, but I'm talking about the general rule that a car alarm - a car horn is to provide an alarm, but we don't all hop in our car and test it every minute, do we?---No, but what's applicable outside the industry is different to what's required on a mine site, that's why we've got special rules and regulations.
PN378
Yes, I'm aware?---Certainly have.
PN379
So in your view, this weekly test, is that more than's normally required, is it?---No, I said that I wasn't aware that they did it weekly. Most underground coal mines test their emergency sirens weekly. It depends on the mine and what they've built in to their systems. As I said, I wasn't - I wasn't aware they do it weekly.
PN380
**** STEVEN ALAN JOHN SMYTH RXN MR CONROY
PN381
MR CONROY: Mr Smyth, it's Tim Conroy again?---Yes.
PN382
Just a couple of questions, in response?---Yes.
PN383
What would say about the concept of two-way radios in all the vehicles being a suitable method of notifying all individuals on site of an emergency?---That's fine. Two-way radios are fine with people that operate heavy equipment or light vehicles, but if you were away from that location, for example, either a wash-plant or a workshop situation, there needs to be some other system in place because two-way radios might be 20, 30 metres away, and with the way a lot of the open-cut mines run with various channels and a lot of interference and radio talk-back, and that, it makes it very hard unless you're at the location where it is.
PN384
And Mr Gerard put to you or mentioned that there were weekly tests on these sirens?---Yes.
PN385
What would you say if a pit had a weekly test that didn't occur?---What if there was a pit where the weekly test didn't occur?
PN386
Yes. If it was normal for there to be a weekly test - - -?---Yes.
PN387
- - - and one particular week this didn't occur, what would you say about that?---I'd say that it builds in again, going back to the system, building it as part of the system, then their system is ineffective. The other aspect of it is time to have the testing occur, but also need assistance - you'd need to have something in place if the sirens do not work, or they're not functioning properly and what action is taken to correct that.
PN388
Okay, thank you, I've got no further questions, thanks, Commissioner?---Not a problem.
**** STEVEN ALAN JOHN SMYTH RXN MR CONROY
PN389
THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Moorhead?
PN390
MR MOORHEAD: No, thank you.
PN391
THE COMMISSIONER: Ms Rogers?
PN392
MR GERARD: Nothing - I have nothing.
PN393
THE COMMISSIONER: Good, thanks, Mr Smyth, you're excused?---Not a problems, thank you.
PN394
MR GERARD: Commissioner, could we have a two minute comfort break?
PN395
THE COMMISSIONER: Sure, seeing you put it like that. We're adjourned for five minutes.
SHORT ADJOURNMENT [7.18pm]
RESUMED [7.31pm]
PN396
THE COMMISSIONER: Thanks, everyone. Mr Gerard.
PN397
MR GERARD: Thanks, Commissioner. Commissioner, it's probably relevant to go to the disputes procedure of the certified agreement which is attached to the application for the order as required by the - does the Commission have a copy of the disputes procedure?
PN398
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, it was attached to the original order.
PN399
MR GERARD: In particular, Commissioner, if I could draw your attention to clause 32.2.3:
PN400
There will not be any stoppage of work by the company or employee whilst this procedure in 32.3 is being followed.
PN401
Also, 32.5:
PN402
In the event that there's a possibility of industrial action occurring contrary to 32.2.3, no breach of this ...(reads)... relevant union who are members of the negotiating team for this agreement.
PN403
Commissioner, I could indicate that that didn't occur. That goes on to say:
PN404
In the event that this does not occur where after such senior level of involvement a breach does occur ...(reads)... and may immediately access appropriate remedies.
PN405
Which is what the company is doing tonight and the key issue, Commissioner, of course, of those two points is there be no stoppage of work by the employee in reference to industrial action, and it's clear that what is happening at Goonyella Riverside mine is industrial action as defined by the Workplace Relations Act 1996 section 4. Nothing that I've heard, Commissioner, could indicate any issue - or certainly hasn't been raised as part of any issue a concern about health and safety at Goonyella Riverside mine. I think the evidence of Mr O'Sullivan about actually what happened is quite germane to the issue before you.
PN406
It's fairly clear that, you know, at 11.30, he rang the mine manager who said he wasn't aware that there was a problem with the siren, and despite having the perfect opportunity to say, "Well, what can we do to get this thing back on track and get it fixed", in the 10 minutes that he waited for Mr Zietsman to call him back to say, and I'm paraphrasing here, Commissioner, the evidence given by two people, essentially that no - he wasn't - he had already said he wasn't aware that it wasn't working, and that it's not fixed but we're working on it, but despite that, the delegates had already moved a resolution to - well, recommendation, sorry, as Mr O'Sullivan said, to commence strike action which, in my submission, they'd already made their minds up before Mr O'Sullivan rung, if they'd done all that within 10 minutes.
PN407
You know, forget the disputes procedure, forget any process of ensuring that the issue could be addressed, when in the admission of the mine manager he wasn't even aware that there'd been a problem with the siren. So I think it's fairly clear, Commissioner, from the evidence that there is industrial action and that section 127 comes into play and, of course, the issue - the case law relating to section 127 is growing larger and larger, but I think the most important decision that we need to take into consideration is the Hunter Valley decision in Print P2071 and importantly that, in our submission, that under section 127(2) of the Act, it's satisfied BHP Coal is a party and is directly affected in relation to the industrial dispute.
PN408
As I said, there's clearly a strike which constitutes industrial action under the Act. Now, I appreciate, Commissioner, that this part - this section of the Act is discretionary, but there's nothing that, in my submission, that you've heard this afternoon and tonight by way of evidence or any brief submissions that have been made that could convince you that there are better ways of dealing with an issue like this than going on a 48 hour stoppage causing major damage to a company's bottom line, given the evidence in relation to production and loss of revenue that Mr Zietsman has given to the Commission and, essentially, we would say that the Commission as constituted should use your discretion to issue the order in the form sought.
PN409
And I don't particularly want to go - try and wade back through my meandering notes that I might put to the Commission to try and recap the evidence that has been given. You've had the ability of hearing that yourself, but I think it's suffice to say that it's clear that there are alternate processes; there is a disputes procedure as even Mr Smyth said, there are procedures and processes that enable people to have these issues resolved and resolved quickly. A call to the mine manager, and he's said, "No, it's not working and we're doing something about it". That's what needs to be done, not walk out the gate for 48 hours.
PN410
So, Commissioner, in conclusion, we believe that section 127 of the Act is satisfied in those points, and we ask the Commission to issue an order in a form similar to that that's been provided to the Commission. That's all I have at this stage.
PN411
THE COMMISSIONER: Good, thanks, Mr Gerard.
PN412
MR CONROY: Thanks, Commissioner. Commissioner, it's my submission that the Commission shouldn't provide the necessary discretion or, I should say, the discretion required in the granting of the sought order in this instance. I put forward that the company have to accept a fair proportion or an amount of blame with respect to this issue and the subsequent stoppage. Mr Gerard has mentioned the Hunter Valley case, that being the Coal and Allied case which seems to be the case we all refer to in these type of proceedings, and I would put forward the coming out of that case and consistent with the principles of that case, that the actions taken by the coal mine workers in this instance are in proportion with the actions taken by management, and that being the failure of management to ensure that the appropriate alarm was in place.
PN413
So, Commissioner, it's my submission that whilst this action is clearly not protected, it is legitimate. The actions of the company have placed the coal mine workers and members of the CFMEU at risk, and at the risk of rambling on without any correct order in terms of evidence, I'd just like to highlight some of the evidence that is before the Commission. Firstly, the importance of this alarm from the employees point of view: if my memory is correct, I believe Mr O'Sullivan put forward that it was the primary notification of an emergency and that it had a very important role of telling people to go to the muster area.
PN414
The - and that evidence that he gave was different to the evidence given by the company representative who seemed to concentrate only on the role of the siren in terms of dealing specifically with an emergency. Mr O'Sullivan stated that if the alarm doesn't go off, no one knows for 10 to 12 minutes. So he clearly indicated how important the alarm is with respect to the notification of an emergency. I would like to make the point that when - from the evidence, when the CFMEU decided to go on strike, the employees were aware that the alarm was not working at the time of the incident, and at that time.
PN415
So I don't think there can be any suggestion of the workers going on strike without knowing that the alarm was defective. They clearly knew that the alarm wasn't working, and hadn't been working for a number of days. I would also like to point out that management, in their own evidence, acknowledged that they could have acted in a quicker fashion in dealing with this issue. I think the words used by the company witness was, "In hindsight, we should have done something yesterday afternoon about that". So it's clear that the company could have investigated this issue earlier, which would have led to a quicker rectification of the problem.
PN416
The company - there was some company evidence with respect to the reliability of pagers or that pagers were part of an alternative notification of an emergency, but the evidence of the company representative on that was that the rescue crew had raised concerns about the reliability of pagers and so that indicates that back-up arrangements aren't necessarily a suitable way of dealing with the situation in the absence of these alarms. Also of relevance, Commissioner, is the fact that it would appear that there is a strong possibility the normal Monday testing didn't occur.
PN417
The company witness did acknowledge that the person who normally does it wasn't there on Monday, and this was consistent with the evidence of Mr O'Sullivan who indicated that the members of the electrical division had advised him that the alarm didn't go off on Monday. Commissioner, I think the evidence of Mr Smyth was also of relevance with respect to this issue and it was his view, as the industry safety and health representative, so a person with significant responsibilities and powers under the relevant statute, was that if the siren or the alarm is not working, you don't have a fully functional communication system, and he went on to say that this impacts upon all coal mine workers in that particular area.
PN418
He held the view that without the siren, it is not possible to use any alternative means of appropriately communicating to coal mine workers that there is an emergency. He also gave evidence that without the functioning alarm, there was a lack of compliance with the regulations, and he specifically referred to regulation 35 of the Coal Mining Safety and Health Regulation 2001. He then gave evidence that he believed that without the alarm, workers were exposed to an unacceptable level of risk. So, Commissioner, as I said at the outset, it's my submission that the company are clearly not faultless and should be apportioned a significant share of the blame that has resulted in this issue.
PN419
Commissioner, I would just like to make a couple of points in the alternative, if you aren't of a similar mind to my arguments, and that's first of all, if you do make an order, I think the evidence of Mr Smyth is particularly relevant with respect to how the mine would operate with the absence of the alarm and so, Commissioner, it's my argument that if you do make an order, it should be contingent upon either the alarm being rectified or, secondly, that before there is a resumption of work, there is significant explanation to all the coal mine workers of the alternative means in place so that there can't be any emergency situation which could arise that would be dealt with in a substantive - or I should say, in a non-appropriate fashion.
PN420
Commissioner, finally I would just like to make the point with respect to the length of the order that is being sought by the company. I note that it is for three months. Commissioner, there is no evidence before the Commission that would justify an order for that length of time. Commissioner, I would submit that at best the order should only continue until some time on Saturday because there is evidence that there was going to be a resumption of work at that stage anyway. That is all I have at this stage, thanks, Commissioner.
PN421
THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Conroy. Mr Moorhead?
PN422
MR MOORHEAD: Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner, we say that the actions of the employees concerned is not industrial action within the meaning of that term provided by the Workplace Relations Act. We say that the actions of the employees in question fall into the exemption for employees who hold a reasonable concern in respect of imminent risk to their health and safety.
PN423
I think if you - the evidence of Mr Smyth was quite clear on that point. The Coalmining Safety and Health Act and its associated regulations provides a system of risk management in respect of health and safety. The siren on top of the workshop at Goonyella is an important part of the safety management system put in place by the Goonyella Riverside Mine to ensure that employees are kept safe.
PN424
The absence of that siren has significant concerns for our members insofar as the time delay that may be involved for employees who are involved in a serious incident if the Mines Reduce Team located at Goonyella are unaware of the accident, and in that circumstance that a Mines Rescue Team has to come from the Riverside part of the mine, taking in the evidence of Mr O'Sullivan, an extra 12 minutes to attend the scene in accidents, including those accidents of the nature experienced yesterday, 10 to 12 minutes is a critical amount of time in the reduce of employees.
PN425
The siren is the primary method of notification of employees in the industrial area at the Goonyella site of the mine. However, importantly, though, it is the primary notification of employees involved in the Mines Rescue Team. Yes, there are back-up means of notification for the Mines Rescue Team, but our submission is that those forms of communication are unreliable at best. Mr Zietsman agreed that there had been a great deal of problems with the pager system, and that recently the mine had had to replace all of the pagers because of problems occurred in the failure of those paging systems.
PN426
As well, in respect of the interim arrangement, Commissioner, we say that the notification by phone is insufficient. The phone could be tied up with calls by the supervisors themselves or other employees in the office, and as well the two-way system, on the evidence of Mr O'Sullivan, is located in the office where only a small number of the employees in the workshop are likely to be located and not out in the workshop itself.
PN427
Commissioner, put simply, we don't think that the employees in this area should have to rely on the reduce truck driving past or a vehicle that they are working on being in a state such that the radio is working. This system is central to the safety system at Goonyella Riverside. When employees became aware that this was the case, their genuine - they - the delegates contacted Mr Zietsman and I, with respect, disagree with what the evidence of Mr O'Sullivan was as to the conversation with Mr Zietsman.
PN428
My recollection of the evidence was that Mr O'Sullivan asked the Mine Manager, firstly, whether he knew it was broken, to which Mr Zietsman answered with words to the effect that he didn't know that. And he said that he would look into it. And on the second phone call on my recollection, Mr O'Sullivan asked, "Is it broken?" Mr Zietsman agreed that it was. Mr O'Sullivan asked, "Is it being fixed?" And Mr Zietsman responded, "No." That is my recollection of the evidence, and I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong, Commissioner, but that is my recollection of that second conversation.
PN429
So it is that a serious flaw in the safety system had been identified. It had almost 24 hours before it had been notified to the delegates who immediately took up the issue directly. In determining what is whether an acceptable or an unacceptable risk was present, we say that the Commission should look both the standards imposed in this industry by the Coalmining Safety and Health Act and its associated regulations, in particular regulation 35 of the Coalmining Safety and Health Regulation provides for a health and - sorry - a safety and health management system for dealing with emergencies, and that requires that they must have - the mine must carry out emergency exercises, including the testing and effectiveness of emergency management procedures and the readiness and fitness of equipment for use in emergency, which we say hasn't happened in this case, or hasn't happened correctly. And that they must minimise risks associated with potential emergency situations.
PN430
Now, Mr Zietsman himself agreed that the safety and health management system in place had fallen down and that, first, that the siren wasn't working, and second - and probably more concerning - is that no one knew until an emergency occurred. The interim arrangement has only been in place since this afternoon after the industrial - after the actin commenced, and I have already made submissions about my concerns about the unreliability of that back-up plan. And as well, that hasn't been discussed with the employees involved.
PN431
Commissioner, we say that Mr Smyth's evidence was clear. Mr Smyth is someone whose job it is to assess safety systems. He deals with this day in day out, and in his opinion this failure of the siren poses an unacceptable risk to employees across the mine. So we say that the action is not industrial action within the meaning of the Act. However, if the Commission is not of a mind to accept that we say that the action is legitimate in these circumstances because of the seriousness of the concern of the employees about the flaws in the safety system exposed in this matter.
PN432
Now, Commissioner, the employees, I would concede, haven't completed the disputes procedure contained at Clause 32 of the certified agreement. The employees, because of the seriousness of the nature, took the matter directly to the site senior executive who, under the Coalmining Safety and Health Act, is the person responsible for the safety of the employees on site, and found out that there was a problem and that the problem wasn't being fixed.
PN433
We say that the urgent nature of - and the risk imposed by this failure justified the departure from that disputes procedure for the final two steps, and on my understanding of the disputes resolution procedure there was two further steps; one would be to contact a more senior BHP officer other than a site official in 32.3.5, and for the matter to be referred to the Commission. I will come back to that in a moment.
PN434
So we say that the jurisdiction for the order does not exist. We do concede that employees aren't working in accordance with the central provisions of the definition of industrial action, but we say that the proviso is met. However, we agree with the submissions of Mr Conroy that should the Commission not agree with that submission that the - sorry - I will go back. Sorry - now, what we say, Commissioner, is that jurisdiction doesn't exist, and that if the siren is fixed and the employees do not return to work as soon as practicable after that, we believe that the Commission should review the matter at that stage and consider - may consider exercising its powers under Section 127.
PN435
If the Commission does find that industrial is occurring, we say it is legitimate, and that, like the CFMEU, the order should be contingent on the operation of the siren. Commissioner, in our submission, the proposed length of the order is excessive. We say tha the Full Bench in the Coal and Allied decision makes it clear that the words of Section 127 of the Act identify that it is the particular industrial actin which the order should be aimed at, rather than industrial action generally.
PN436
We say that with the two steps left in the dispute procedure that can be completed within a very short period. In my submission, that could be completed within a week at most, and with the willingness of the parties, even within one or two days. So if the Commission is to issue an order, we say that that is the appropriate length of the order in the circumstances.
PN437
It was also raised that the AMWU has taken industrial action in the past. What I would say about that is that in the two years that Mr Zietsman has been the site senior executive there has only been one previous incident of industrial action involving the AMWU, in October of last year, and that industrial action was also concerned with Mines Rescue training, and concerns that the employees had about the provision of training.
PN438
Now, we say that in the coalmining industry that that is not an outstanding record by any means. That that is quite a conservative record of stoppages for a period of that time. So, Commissioner, we say that the jurisdiction to make the order doesn't exist. But we also say that the industrial action is legitimate as well; that the action is legitimate in the circumstances, may it please the Commission.
PN439
THE COMMISSIONER: Thanks, Mr Moorhead. Ms Rogers?
PN440
MS ROGERS: Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner, our primary submission is that there is not industrial action occurring and in that regard we would support the submissions of the AMWU in relation to that. However, should the Commission not be of a mind to accept those submissions, our argument in the alternative would be that even should the Commission determine that industrial action is occurring, which brings into play the jurisdiction under section 127. Section 127 is a discretionary power and we believe, in this instance, that the behaviour of the employer and in fact the serious inaction of the employer should be taken into account when determining whether or not to issue orders in accordance with the application that's before you here today.
PN441
We have had evidence from both Mr O'Sullivan and Mr Smyth in relation to the seriousness of the breach of health and safety that has occurred on site. And we've had evidence from the employer that clearly states that they have not taken immediate action; they have not taken appropriate action; and in the words of Mr Zietsman himself, "management could have started earlier". Mr Zietsman further acknowledged that contrary to the established practices that occur at the mine, a proper test of the alarm did not occur on Monday, inasmuch as there was not an employee physically present to hear the alarm sound. And as a result of that it would seem that some technological failing, which I can't actually explain, has resulted in the electronic device indicating that the alarm is sounding while the alarm is actually not sounding.
PN442
Commissioner, another point that I'd like to highlight to the Commission is that the interim or alternative arrangements that have been developed and implemented by the company interestingly enough have only been developed and implemented following our members identifying to the employer that they were going to leave the site for 24 hours. This, I would suggest, is another indication of the particularly blase approach that this company seems to have adopted in relation to the health and safety of our members. And our members are rightfully distressed about that. Commissioner, we believe that you should exercise your discretion in not granting the order sought on the basis that the company has by its own activity, or inactivity in this situation, contributed to the action that we see occurring today.
PN443
And I guess our final submission would be to support the submissions of both the AMWU and the CFMEU; that should you be persuaded by neither of those arguments and should you determine that it is appropriate to issue orders that those orders should not be of the duration of three months. Clearly they need to be directed to the industrial action that is occurring. Clearly that industrial action is intended to cease at 7 a.m. on Saturday and as such the duration of the order should be limited to that industrial action, may it please the Commission.
PN444
THE COMMISSIONER: Thanks, Ms Rogers. The parties have anything else? Sorry, go on.
PN445
MR GERARD: Yes, thanks, Commissioner. I'll be fairly brief. Commissioner, Mr Conroy says that the company has to accept some of the blame and I refer to the amount of production. But the whole fruitless thing about all of this is that the company is losing money and so are the employees by way of wages. And there are better ways of doing it. The three advocates have effectively said the same thing, Commissioner, that management could have acted in hindsight - I think, to quote Mr Conroy - and they could have done it earlier. And I think Mr Zietsman has admitted that. But the whole relevant part of this, Commissioner, is that that's what Mr Zietsman did. As soon as he became aware of it he put something in ..... to fix the problem.
PN446
And that also addresses some of the points that Ms Rogers made, in that the interim arrangement was only put in place after the industrial action. Well, the industrial action was notified effectively at 11.30 when Mr Zietsman rang Mr O'Sullivan back to say, look, yes, there is a problem, it's not fixed and we're doing something about it. That's when it happened. Now, Mr Conroy referred you to the evidence of Mr Smyth and his views in relation to the statutory requirements of the Act and the regulations. But, importantly, I think the evidence - and Mr Conroy touched on it - that without the alarm there is an alternative needed. Now, with the alternative that has been put in place by Mr Zietsman - and, again, the unions will say that it's after the event - but when Mr - the facts are that - to encapsulate all what I'm trying to say - is that when Mr Zietsman found out that there was a problem he took action to do something; he put an alternative arrangement in place that complies with the regulations.
PN447
Now, turning to Mr Moorhead's submissions in relation to the industrial action is - that the action is not industrial action. Commissioner, section 4 of the Act, Industrial Action, subsection (g), says that:
PN448
The action was based on a reasonable concern by the employer about an imminent risk to his or her health or safety and...
PN449
The key word:
PN450
...the employee did not unreasonably fail to comply with a direction of his employer to perform other available work, whether at the same or another workplace, it was safe and appropriate for the employee to perform.
PN451
None of that occurred. They simply walked off the job. If there's an - if there's a concern about someone's safety, you withdraw someone from the unsafe area and find them alternate work or find them - put some arrangement in place where they're not subjected to an unsafe practice. None of that came into play at all. They just didn't like what happened and they went home on strike. So in my submission they're not excused by subsection (g) of the definition of industrial action in section 4.
PN452
Mr Moorhead also mentioned that the back-ups are not as reliable as the siren. The evidence of Mr Zietsman is that the first people that actually got to the accident were the people that were out at the mine at Ramp 10. Those people were nowhere near any workshop or prep plant. They were actually in a vehicle and heard the alarm on the back-up two-way radio system. So all of the arrangement that Mr Zietsman has put in place meets the requirement of the Act. In my submission, the arrangements and alternative procedures that were in place met the Act prior to that siren failing. Mr Moorhead also made mention of the two steps of disputes procedure being complete - complied with and completed fairly quickly, and I think he referred to clause 32(3)(5), which we commonly term as ..... conference and then to the Commission.
PN453
I'm somewhat confused as to that submission, Commissioner, in that I think everybody knows the answer to this particular issue and that's to fix the siren. If the siren can't be fixed, what Mr Zietsman has done, through Mr Smyth's own evidence, he has put in an alternative arrangement which meets the requirements of the Coal Mining Safety and Health Act and regulations. Commissioner, I think it's - these issues do become far more complicated, I agree, when safety issues arise. But I think the evidence in Mr Zietsman is that when something was raised with him, when a dispute was raised, he took action. There is no - and that's what dispute procedure is all about.
PN454
Disputes get raised, someone takes some action. The dispute was raised today at 11.30. It wasn't raised yesterday when everybody knew, or a lot of people knew, that that alarm wasn't working. It was raised today at 11.30. When it was raised with him he immediately took action. Despite that they went on strike. In our submission, Commissioner, you should issue your discretion and issue the order. In concluding, relating to the unions' submissions into the length of the order, if you're minded to grant the order - in retrospect, Commissioner, I concede that three months is probably too long, given that the agreement expires on 18 September. And we would be amenable to the Commission amending the term of the order to 18 September of this year.
PN455
The difficulty, of course, that arises, Commissioner, is that in the event that there is some other problem with this siren - and we don't know completely what the issue is; we have heard that it could be microwave; it could be electronic - is that if that is not fixed and alternative arrangements are put in place that meet the requirements of the Act and the regulations, and that the employees don't like, and given that they have walked out for 48 hours well after the event, in our submission, the order should stay in place for a lot longer period than this Saturday, when they are due back at work.
PN456
We don't know, at this stage, when that alarm is going to be fixed, Commissioner. For all those reasons, Commissioner, we would ask the Commission to exercise its discretion to grant the order in the terms sought, and would be amenable to amend the term and date of effect to conclude on 18 September 2004, if the Commission pleases.
PN457
THE COMMISSIONER: Thanks, Mr Gerard. Is there anything else from the parties? Nothing else from the parties? Good. Thanks very much. I will provide a summary decision and reasons in transcript, and I will give full written reasons shortly upon receipt of transcript proper.
PN458
The Commission is satisfied that jurisdictional prerequisites for an order pursuant to Section 127 of the Act have been made out, particularly so in relation to 127(1) and (2) of the Act. Industrial action is happening in conformity with Section 127(1) of the Act. The application has been made by an appropriate person pursuant to Section 127(2) of the Act, and the work is regulated by a certified agreement, and as well as in the other requisite ways. What of the discretion to make an order: the parties have all made significant submissions this evening. The Commission is not without some sympathy for the respondents' position in respect of the application; that is industrial action that is afoot for seemingly a 48-hour period is motivated by a genuine concern for mine safety, by way of a failure to rectify over a four day period a fault in a microwave link for the alarm in the Goonyella workshop number 1.
PN459
Irrespective of whether it was brought to the attention of the mine manager at 11 o'clock, or thereabouts today, it was nonetheless a known fact that on Monday there was a difficulty in the operation of that - in the satisfaction of the operation of that alarm. Now, that said, the Commission is not persuaded that industrial action that is afoot is excluded by way of the definition of Section 4 of the Act in relation to it posing an imminent risk, as put by, I think, in particular, by Mr Moorhead, and Ms Rogers; nor is it, in some way - despite the Commission's sympathies in relation to the respondent's position - is this industrial action made somehow legitimate industrial action that warrants not making an order.
PN460
There are appropriate means, as the Commission has mentioned on other occasions, other than taking direct industrial action, to resolving disputes that have arisen, and the disputes resolution in the prevailing agreement comes most readily to mind, and particularly clause 32 thereof. So consequently, an order will be made. The Commission, however, is of the view that the issue that forms this dispute is highly particularised, and the Commission is not convinced there is any evidence before it of any chronic disposition on the part of the union's concern to take industrial action, either lightly or frequently.
PN461
The Commission as currently constituted was involved in the previous Section 127 order in relation to this matter and recalls its context. Consequently the order will not be made for the duration sought. The order will be made for a duration of 48 hours and it will commence at 10 pm this evening. The Commission would expect that every effort will be made to correct and restore the alarm at the Goonyella Work Shop number 1 and that this will be done expeditious, and the task should be accorded the appropriately high priority that it deserves.
PN462
The Commission will also anticipate that given that the interim arrangements have only come into place this afternoon that the explanation of the interim arrangements that are now in place will be provided at the next closest available tool box meetings and that employees at the mine will be on a suitably heightened awareness of those interim arrangements for their duration, which will hopefully be short. The Commission will also request that the applicant in this matter will notify the Commission as soon as the fault in the alarm or the fault in the microwave link to the alarm is rectified.
PN463
In closing in these summary decision and reasons, the Commission will also state that if there is a further concern in relation to the functioning of the alarm the Commission would at first instance anticipate the dispute resolution procedure would be accessed, but that is to no avail and there is rapid progress through that dispute resolution procedure and it is evident that the alarm is not going to be available for some period of time or for an inappropriate period of time as deemed by the parties and at least moving outside a 48 hour period, the Commission stands ready to assist the parties to the extent necessary and on short notice in respect of that matter.
PN464
As I said, the full reasons for this decision will be given shortly and other than that the amended order will issue shortly this evening, and having said that, we're adjourned. Thank you.
ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [8.18pm]
INDEX
LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs |
BAREND HAMILTON ZIETSMAN, AFFIRMED PN17
EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR GERARD PN17
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR CONROY PN74
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MOORHEAD PN112
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS ROGERS PN137
RE-EXAMINATION BY MR GERARD PN161
WITNESS WITHDREW PN206
DANIEL O'SULLIVAN, AFFIRMED PN210
EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR CONROY PN210
EXAMINATION BY MR MOORHEAD PN230
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR GERARD PN234
WITNESS WITHDREW PN294
STEVEN ALAN JOHN SMYTH, AFFIRMED PN303
EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR CONROY PN303
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MOORHEAD PN323
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR GERARD PN332
RE-EXAMINATION BY MR CONROY PN381
WITNESS WITHDREW PN394
AustLII:
Copyright Policy
|
Disclaimers
|
Privacy Policy
|
Feedback
URL: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/AIRCTrans/2004/3104.html