AG2004/6898, Transcript of Proceedings [2004] AIRCTrans 3412 (31 August 2004)

AUSCRIPT AUSTRALASIA PTY LTD
ABN 72 110 028 825

Level 4, 179 Queen St MELBOURNE Vic 3000
(GPO Box 1114 MELBOURNE Vic 3001)
Tel:[phone] Fax:[phone]

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N 11021

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER SMITH

AG2004/6898

APPLICATION FOR CERTIFICATION
OF AGREEMENT WITH ORGANISATIONS
OF EMPLOYEES (DIVISION 2)

Application under section 170LJ of the Act
by Pracom Limited and Another for certification
of the Pracom Contract Call Centre Enterprise
Agreement 2004-2007

MELBOURNE

9.32 AM, FRIDAY, 20 AUGUST 2004

PN1

MR J. SANDLER: I seek leave to appear on behalf of Pracom.

PN2

MR J. NUCIFORA: I appear for the Australian Services Union.

PN3

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Any objection to the application to the application for leave?

PN4

MR NUCIFORA: No, Commissioner.

PN5

THE COMMISSIONER: Leave is granted. Thanks, Mr Sandler.

PN6

MR SANDLER: As the Commission pleases. Commissioner, you should have before you an application which was filed yesterday, a statutory declaration - - -

PN7

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN8

MR SANDLER: - - - with four attachments, together with a copy of the signed agreement.

PN9

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, I also have a statutory declaration of Mr Michael O'Sullivan that was provided to me this morning.

PN10

MR SANDLER: Yes, I was just about to check on that. Commissioner, I don't know whether you want me to take you through all the elements of he Act, or whether there are any questions?

PN11

THE COMMISSIONER: No, I have examined the agreement. There is just a couple of questions that I might ask, thank you. Everything seems to be in order. As I read the agreement, the flexibility in the hours clause in essence means that there is a 12-hour spread of ordinary hours Monday to Friday, between 7 am and 7 pm; is that a correct assumption?

PN12

MR SANDLER: That is correct.

PN13

THE COMMISSIONER: Now, the other thing, given the approach, have you examined the outcomes that would be achieved with persons working under the agreement compared to persons working under the Contract Call Centre Industry Award 2003 for which I have provided you this morning with a determination pursuant to 170XF?

PN14

MR SANDLER: We have, and we have examined the outcomes in relation to full-time employees.

PN15

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN16

MR SANDLER: And the full-time employees working under the award -under the agreements - - -

PN17

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN18

MR SANDLER: - - - either on a 38-hour week or 40-hour week will earn more under the agreement - considerably more than under the award.

PN19

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, well, thank you, that is a matter that I wanted to satisfy myself with because of the reference in the agreement to both the hours of work and the way in which hours of work are regulated.

PN20

MR SANDLER: If the Commission pleases.

PN21

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Mr Nucifora?

PN22

MR NUCIFORA: Thank you, Commissioner. First, Commissioner, I apologise for the copy of the union's statutory declaration given to you so late.

PN23

THE COMMISSIONER: That is all right.

PN24

MR NUCIFORA: We did try to fax it through late yesterday but, as I understand it, we were only able to get you an original copy today. Commissioner, we do want to say just that we certainly support the submissions put by Mr Sandler on behalf of the employer. I just want to give you a very brief history of negotiations in relation to this agreement.

PN25

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, thank you.

PN26

MR NUCIFORA: But it occurred over - the negotiations occurred over a considerable period of time through this year and, of course, goes back to - we can go back to when our organisation had a dispute finding with Pracom. I think that time the difficulty of working in an unregulated environment was that what happened as a result of the agreement before you, actually brings out the best of the Workplace Relations Act and, of course, our union isn't backward in raising concerns about the Workplace Relations Act, but what you have is consent on there being a safety net award that is appropriate to the industry and you have the flexibility of a certified agreement through, as the union would prefer a section 170LJ.

PN27

And I must say that the level of co-operation between the organisations once we reached agreement in-principle, and in particular with the documentation here that goes to trying to meet the requirements of the Act, including the secured vote, has really showed that we have come a long way, I mean, if I was bargaining in the last decade. So I would say, Commissioner, that this is - from the ASUs point of view, confirms what our union sees as being important in terms of having the Contract Call Centre Industry Award 2003 as we see it, as being an award that, as much as possible, is suited to this industry and then you have, of course, the EBA here with Pracom recognising of this, the organisation has had its own problems trying to deal with this industry, but it has agreed that it will be a foundation of an award of safety - with safety net covering its working conditions and, of course, an EBA that goes to reflecting the specific functions of Pracom as a Contract Call Centre.

PN28

So, Commissioner, we would say, we of course would concur with the determination that you have made in relation to the Contract Call Centre Industry Award being an appropriate award, and we do believe that the EBA does meet the no disadvantage test and we otherwise seek that you approve this agreement, operative from today's date. If the Commission pleases.

PN29

THE COMMISSIONER: Thanks, Mr Nucifora.

PN30

This is an application made pursuant to Part VIB of Division 2, section 170LJ of the Workplace Relations Act to certify an agreement to be known as the Pracom Contract Call Centre Enterprise Agreement 2004-2007. Having heard from Mr Sandler and Mr Nucifora, and having read the statutory declarations filed, I am satisfied that the agreement relates to matters pertaining to the relationship between an employer who is carrying on a single business, and employees employed in the single business.

PN31

I am also satisfied that the union has at least one member employed in the single business to which the agreement relates and is entitled to represent that member. I am also satisfied that the agreement passes the no disadvantage test; the agreement is made in accordance with section 170LJ and that a valid majority of persons employed at the time, whose employment would be subject to the agreement, genuinely approved the agreement.

PN32

I am satisfied that there was an explanation of the terms of the agreement and that matter is attached to the statutory declarations. I am further satisfied that the agreement includes procedures for preventing and settling industrial disputes - settling disputes between the employer and the employees whose employment would be the subject of the agreement, and I am satisfied the agreement specifies a nominal expiry date which is not more than three years after the date on which the agreement will come into operation.

PN33

Further, I am satisfied there are no reasons as set out in section 170LU of the Act as to why I should refuse to certify the agreement. Accordingly, the agreement will be certified with effect from today and it will operate in accordance with its terms. I will have the transcript of these proceedings produced. The matter is adjourned sine die.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [9.40am]