|
|
Home
| Databases
| WorldLII
| Search
| Feedback
Australian Industrial Relations Commission Transcripts |
AUSCRIPT AUSTRALASIA PTY LTD
ABN 72 110 028 825
Level 4, 179 Queen St MELBOURNE Vic 3000
(GPO Box 1114 MELBOURNE Vic 3001)
Tel:(03) 9672-5608 Fax:(03) 9670-8883
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
O/N 8315
AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL
RELATIONS COMMISSION
DEPUTY PRESIDENT HAMILTON
C2004/5393
PLUMBING TRADES (SOUTHERN STATES)
CONSTRUCTION AWARD 1999
Application under section 113 of the Act
by the Communications, Electrical, Electronic,
Energy, Information, Postal, Plumbing and
Allied Services Union of Australia to vary
the above award re wage rates and wage
related allowances
MELBOURNE
10.20 AM, WEDNESDAY, 25 AUGUST 2004
THIS HEARING WAS CONDUCTED BY VIDEO CONFERENCE IN MELBOURNE
PN1
MR J. COONEY: I appear for the CEPU Plumbing Division.
PN2
MR C. HARNATH: I appear for the Master Plumbers and Mechanical Services Association of Australia. I appear in all matters.
PN3
MR P. VERBERNE: I appear on behalf of AMCA member companies for Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania, only in matter 5393.
PN4
MS C. COATE: I appear for the National Fire Industry Association, appearing only in matter 5214 for Sprinkler Pipe Fitters Award.
PN5
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, that is the only one that has been called, isn't it? That is fine. Who would like to start?
PN6
MR COONEY: Your Honour, first I think we discuss and make submissions sitting down, if that is acceptable for the camera so the people in Sydney can see us.
PN7
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I'm sorry?
PN8
MR COONEY: Discussed earlier with your associate that it was acceptable to make submissions from the table sitting down.
PN9
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is fine, whatever helps so that people can be seen on camera. That is fine, no problems at all.
PN10
MR COONEY: If I could first start off by, again if it is acceptable, addressing some preliminary remarks relevant to all matters.
PN11
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No problem at all if it is relevant. Perhaps we can deal with issues first of all of service, if that is all right.
PN12
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour, I have here a copy, if I could hand up copies of facsimile reports.
PN13
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: These relate to 5214 only or all matters?
PN14
PN15
MR COONEY: Disregarding the scribble - - -
PN16
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: What does this show?
PN17
MR COONEY: It shows the transmission of the various applications, draft orders and hearing dates. I've marked the relevant organisation next to the facsimile number and where the result has been received successfully. There's also a photocopy there of - and I have the originals here - service by way of mail on the Master Plumbers of South Australia and the Master Plumbers of Tasmania because I wasn't able to reach them by facsimile.
PN18
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. What does the Act say about service by facsimile? What do the rules say?
PN19
MR COONEY: Your Honour, I followed the order for substituted service where service be effected either by prepaid registered post or facsimile transmission upon the undermentioned parties.
PN20
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Fine. So the order for substituted service provided for that?
PN21
MR COONEY: It provided for facsimile transmission, your Honour. Secondly, could I hand up a document prepared by the Master Plumbers and headed: email transmission. Now, that consists of an agreement between the union and the Master Plumbers reached over previous safety net adjustments and that details the method for adjusting allowances which uses the formula of calculating a percentage over this safety net increase as against a previous one which came to 3.5 per cent and then adjusting the allowances accordingly.
PN22
MR COONEY: That document also contains I suppose what could best be described as spreadsheets dealing with the calculations and I think you will also see on the third or fourth page there's a list of the five awards we are dealing with today and the order that is acceptable to the Commission in which the parties had previously agreed to deal with these matters, and begins with the Southern States Award, then goes on to the Queensland, WA.
PN23
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.
PN24
MR COONEY: If it is acceptable to your Honour, the parties would like to deal with the matter in order. Your Honour, that takes - - -
PN25
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So those are the general issues?
PN26
MR COONEY: They are the general issues, your Honour.
PN27
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Service and the agreement and agreed order and the like, yes.
PN28
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour. If I could move now specifically to the Southern States Award.
PN29
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is the first one in the agreed order, yes.
PN30
MR COONEY: This is the first one in the matter that was called on.
PN31
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is 5214, yes, the only one that has been called on.
PN32
MR COONEY: Sorry, the matter that has been called on is the Sprinkler Pipe Fitters Award 5214.
PN33
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, that is right. All right, so we should deal with the first one in that agreed order which is the Plumbing Trades (Southern States) Construction Award. That is the first one in the agreed order isn't it? Am I wrong about that? No, it is, yes, according to your exhibit C2.
PN34
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour.
PN35
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So let us make sure we've got all appearances for that one. Have all appearances for matters 5393 been answered?
PN36
MR COONEY: I appear for the Plumbers Union in that matter, your Honour.
PN37
MR HARNATH: Yes, my appearance was in that one, your Honour, yes.
PN38
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Anybody else?
PN39
MR VERBERNE: Yes, so was my mine, your Honour.
PN40
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Any other appearances interstate? No? That is fine, excellent. So we will deal with that one first.
PN41
MR COONEY: Your Honour, as pointed out earlier, the draft order had previously been provided to the parties and there are a number of corrections to be made that were made to that draft order over the last week. If I could hand up a copy of the draft order and I've marked where those corrections are and I will - - -
PN42
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: We will go through them one by one shall we?
PN43
PN44
MR COONEY: Your Honour, on the first page of the order, and it is at paragraph (1), our South Australian drainer on the original draft order. It is an amount of 564.10. That should be corrected to 554.80.
PN45
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Before we get to that, perhaps we should discuss what principle we are applying, or principles. We are applying what, the safety net review wages decision of May 2004 are we?
PN46
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour, print 002004.
PN47
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right, and we are applying the statement of principles.
PN48
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour.
PN49
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And what are we doing within that statement of principles? Are we applying the safety net adjustment to the wage rates and to allowances, is that correct?
PN50
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour, and as outlined earlier, the allowances are adjusted by a factor of 3.5 per cent. They are the expense-related allowances, not the allowances which would otherwise be adjusted by - - -
PN51
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So the safety net adjustment is what, provided for in this decision is what?
PN52
MR COONEY: They are the expense-related allowances and various job allowances. They are the various job allowances.
PN53
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, let me start again. You weren't listening to the question.
PN54
MR COONEY: Sorry, your Honour.
PN55
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is all right. This is as much for my benefit as anybody else. It is a complicated issue. First of all the safety net adjustment in the May 2004 decision is what?
PN56
MR COONEY: Is $19.
PN57
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: For all classifications?
PN58
MR COONEY: All classifications, your Honour.
PN59
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Terrific. Now, you then turn to what, principle 5 do you?
PN60
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour.
PN61
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right. Now, which aspects of principle 5 are you seeking to have applied?
PN62
MR COONEY: Your Honour, those allowances in relation to various matters such as height allowance, multi-storey allowance, job-related allowances would best describe those.
PN63
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Are you seeking to apply 5A which is reimbursement of expenses?
PN64
MR COONEY: No, your Honour, it is 5B.
PN65
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So you are seeking to apply principle 5B, is that right?
PN66
MR COONEY: Correct, your Honour.
PN67
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Which relate to work conditions which have not changed. All right, so we are applying them and C of course and D?
PN68
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour.
PN69
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So it is 5B, C and D is what you are seeking to apply, is that right?
PN70
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour.
PN71
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is that all?
PN72
MR COONEY: That is all, your Honour.
PN73
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, that is all. Now, so to calculate the percentage adjustment of those allowances you have applied principle 5D have you?
PN74
MR COONEY: Correct, your Honour.
PN75
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So you have transformed $19 into a percentage in accordance with principle 5D?
PN76
MR COONEY: Correct, your Honour, and that percentage is 3.5 per cent.
PN77
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: 3.5 per cent, and in summary how did you do that?
PN78
MR COONEY: Your Honour, you get the $19 and you take the previous increase, the 2003 increase. You divide the $19 by that amount to find out how much the increase had been compared to previous rates and that came out to a factor of 3.5 per cent.
PN79
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, principle 5D seems to be different. It says divide the monetary safety net increase - that is the $19, right - by the rate of pay for the key classification in the relevant award immediately prior to the application of the safety net increase and multiply it by 100. Is that what you did or not?
PN80
MR COONEY: Yes. Your Honour, the best way maybe to clarify this is to take you to exhibit CEPU2.
PN81
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: C2? Yes. I like to get all this on the record you see, so that there's no ambiguity about it.
PN82
MR COONEY: No, that is fine. On the fourth page in, attachment B, there's a document marked: Australian Industrial Relations Commission.
PN83
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, I've read it but take me through it.
PN84
MR COONEY: The adjustment of the work-related allowances was in accordance with the formula outlined there which refers to print S5000 and the percentage was arrived in that manner.
PN85
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Where is print S5000 referred to in that document? Attachment B?
PN86
MR COONEY: Attachment D. It is about - sorry, attachment B. It is about four paragraphs down and it is the italicised words:
PN87
The parties named above accept that the method of calculation for work-related allowances and service increments.
PN88
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I see. So that was about the 2003 decision was it?
PN89
MR COONEY: That was arrived at as a result of the safety net adjustment made in 2000 and the parties agreed subsequent to that to that method of adjusting for - - -
PN90
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is the principle in that safety net decision consistent with the principle in this one?
PN91
MR COONEY: It is, your Honour.
PN92
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It is identical is it?
PN93
MR COONEY: Yes.
PN94
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right. Well, the only thing this seems to change really is the number of decimal places.
PN95
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour.
PN96
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is the effect of it?
PN97
MR COONEY: Yes.
PN98
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Well, thank you for that. I understand that point. Let us get back to this principle 5D: provide monetary safety net. So what is the key classification in the relevant award? I know it is in exhibit C2 somewhere because I've read it but just remind me.
PN99
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour. It is the trade rate which is the All States Plumber and Gas Fitter amount of 564.10.
PN100
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right. So that is the key classification rate and you say you have divided the $19 by the monetary amount for that classification have you?
PN101
MR COONEY: It is by the 2003 classification to get to it.
PN102
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, that is right, and then you multiply by 100 and you have got 3.5 per cent. Marvellous, thank you for that.
PN103
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour.
PN104
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And you are then applying that 3.5 per cent to all the expense-related allowances in the awards in question?
PN105
MR COONEY: To the work-related expenses.
PN106
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Sorry, yes, the work-related allowances. And there is agreement, is there, about which allowances are work related and which are - - -
PN107
MR COONEY: There is, your Honour. Those allowances that would normally be adjusted by CPI movement haven't been affected by these applications.
PN108
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Marvellous. So you will deal with those at another time then if necessary or appropriate.
PN109
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour.
PN110
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Excellent. Thank you for that, thank you for that explanation. I'm sorry to take you through it but it is good to get it all clear on the record. Go on.
PN111
MR COONEY: If I could take you to page 2 of the draft order for the Southern States.
PN112
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: This is exhibit C3?
PN113
MR COONEY: This is exhibit C3.
PN114
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right, I have it.
PN115
MR COONEY: It is paragraph 3 and it is clause 10.3. In column 3 for registration you will notice below the monetary amount the words appearing four times and appearing twice below the amount of $11. In the draft order those words should also appear in column 4 in the appropriate place. Similarly at clause 11.2 for acting on welding certificate, in column 3 there were appearing, twice appeared, they should also appear in column 4.
PN116
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Are these all just arithmetical mistakes, apart from that sort of thing?
PN117
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour, they are just - - -
PN118
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right, that is fine. These things happen, don't they.
PN119
MR COONEY: Yes. It has occurred again on page 3 at clause 12.6 for towers appearing twice, should also be in at column 4.
PN120
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.
PN121
MR COONEY: Other than that, they are the mistakes. Your Honour, the union has included the clause, the relevant commitment clause at 10.1.1 and the union undertakes to give those commitments of no further claims. Finally, your Honour - - -
PN122
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: 12 months?
PN123
MR COONEY: 12 months, yes, 29 August 2004 as the operative date.
PN124
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So that is exactly 12 months is it?
PN125
MR COONEY: It is, your Honour.
PN126
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So you are now addressing the arbitrated safety net adjustment conditions are you?
PN127
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour.
PN128
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Let us just go through those one by one. It is principle 8 is it?
PN129
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour.
PN130
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Operative date is no earlier, 12 months.
PN131
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour.
PN132
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: You have given the increase as to absorption to clauses proposed to be included, consist in principle 8E. That is the only aspect I think of principle 8 isn't it that we are applying?
PN133
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour.
PN134
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So there's nothing else. Have you adjusted the federal minimum wage or don't you have that in any of the awards?
PN135
MR COONEY: No, your Honour. There is a minimum rate but that is above the minimum wage.
PN136
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, terrific. So the only principles we are applying are principle 8 and principle 5, is that right?
PN137
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour.
PN138
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Marvellous, thank you for that. So are you finished your submissions?
PN139
MR COONEY: Yes, thank you, your Honour.
PN140
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. Who would like to speak on that award?
PN141
MR HARNATH: Thank you, your Honour. At the outset I referred to the exhibit that Mr Cooney did put to the Commission just to complete the record as the Commission was - - -
PN142
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Exhibit C3 or C1 or C2?
PN143
MR HARNATH: Yes, CEPU2 which was the letter to Vice President Ross dated 11 July 2003. Just for the completion so that the Commission for the record purposes totally aware, the expense-related allowances issue that was mentioned is actually handled on a different occasion under what is called the ladeet formula which as Mr Cooney said is a CPI adjustment. It is a similar basis to the national building award as well. It is a consistent thing within the industry awards.
PN144
The Southern States Award of course is regarded as the parent award, if you like, of the plumbing group and then that is of course why we are looking to have that handled as the first award and as a matter of principle the document, once again CEPU2, tries to set out all the various answers to the complexities that we've experienced on previous occasions before the Commission. It was done with the cooperation, in fact done at the direction of Vice President Ross so that in future times the Commission was much more able to follow the complexities that we have to go through with the various awards.
PN145
In saying that, your Honour, I've worked with Mr Cooney for some months now in reaching firstly the calculation outcomes and then the orders. We would agree with the changes that Mr Cooney has specified on the record today. As I understand it, Mr Cooney is going to provide an email copy of those amendments in the form of a draft order, both to the Commission and to myself, and that would be something that would be assisting of course as a final - - -
PN146
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: When will that be provided?
PN147
MR COONEY: Your Honour, we can undertake to do that by close of business tomorrow if that is acceptable.
PN148
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right.
PN149
MR COONEY: Just further to that, if I could ask the other parties to provide me with an email address if they want me to provide email to those parties as well.
PN150
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Well, you have heard that request. I'm sure that following this hearing the parties will do that for Mr Cooney if they wish a copy of the draft order. One other thing, so you will provide that order by close of business tomorrow. I suppose we should provide the other parties with an opportunity to agree with it or express disagreement by say close of business Thursday - close of business Friday?
PN151
MR COONEY: Your Honour, there has been a request from the bar table for 7 days and we wouldn't oppose that if the other parties - - -
PN152
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. We wouldn't be able to have the document today would we?
PN153
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour, I can do that.
PN154
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Excellent. Close of business today then and the party - so you are happy for the other parties to have 7 days to respond and we will deal with any issues on the basis of those written responses. I doubt if we will need a further hearing will we?
PN155
MR COONEY: No, your Honour, and I sincerely hope not.
PN156
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, that is fine. Well, okay, we will leave it on this basis, that the issues will be dealt with on the basis of written submissions, unless a party requests it because of some major issue that no one has foreseen. That is fine with you?
PN157
MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour.
PN158
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Terrific. Mr Harnath, are you happy with that arrangement?
PN159
MR HARNATH: Thank you, your Honour, I am and it goes without saying that as Mr Cooney and I have discussed, what he has just said with regards to the Southern States Award would be an overlay for each of the other awards before the Commission today, the same procedure.
PN160
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is fine. Well, we will deal with those other awards later.
PN161
MR HARNATH: Yes, of course. Your Honour, the other thing that was mentioned by Mr Cooney was the operative date. That is - - -
PN162
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: 29 August.
PN163
MR HARNATH: Yes, 29 August is in fact the appropriate date in accordance with the principles of the Act and we would agree that the first pay period to commence on or after 29 August be the operative date of this order. That is all I have to say in regards to this award, if the Commission pleases.
PN164
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you. Who is next?
PN165
MR VERBERNE: Your Honour, I would like to submit that we agree with the comments that have been made by both the representatives from the CEPU and the Master Plumbers Association. We would also concur with the date of 29 August and the arrangements made for Mr Cooney to provide the Commission and the other parties with a totally accurate document. If I also may, your Honour, take you to C3 in regard to the order for substituted service.
PN166
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.
PN167
MR VERBERNE: I would like to take the opportunity just to correct the postal address for Air-conditioning Mechanical Contractors Association of Australia which is on page 4 of C3, would show there, your Honour, as Post Office Box 289, Burwood, Victoria.
PN168
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Sorry, which organisation? Yes, I see.
PN169
MR VERBERNE: AMCA.
PN170
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It is page 5.
PN171
MR VERBERNE: Yes, you are quite right, your Honour, and that Post Office Box 289 should be Post Office Box 309. That is the only award that I'm here for today, your Honour, so if I may when we have finalised this matter, if I could be excused when you have completed your part.
PN172
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Thank you very much, Mr Verberne. Anybody else on that award? No? Excellent. Do you have anything to say, Mr Cooney, in response?
PN173
MR COONEY: Nothing further, your Honour.
PN174
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Marvellous. Okay, well, we will then adjourn the matter on the agreed basis and I'm sure that will be the end of it but we will see after we see your written order and then we see the parties' comments.
ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [10.46am]
INDEX
LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs |
AustLII:
Copyright Policy
|
Disclaimers
|
Privacy Policy
|
Feedback
URL: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/AIRCTrans/2004/3497.html