C2004/2003, Transcript of Proceedings [2004] AIRCTrans 3696 (17 September 2004)

AUSCRIPT AUSTRALASIA PTY LTD
ABN 72 110 028 825

Level 4, 179 Queen St MELBOURNE Vic 3000
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N 8428
AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER DEEGAN

C2004/2003

MEDIA, ENTERTAINMENT AND
ARTS ALLIANCE

and

AUSTRALIAN BROADCASTING
CORPORATION

Notification pursuant to section 99 of the Act
of a dispute re salary reduction

MELBOURNE

10.09 AM, WEDNESDAY, 8 SEPTEMBER 2004

Continued from 6.9.04

PN868

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, any changes to appearances?

PN869

MR CARUSO: No, changes for the MEAA, Commissioner.

PN870

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, perhaps you could commence, Mr O'Donnell.

PN871

MR O'DONNELL: I wonder if I can call Ms Tonya Roberts to the stand, Commissioner.

<TONYA ROBERTS, SWORN [10.10am]

<EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR O'DONNELL

PN872

THE COMMISSIONER: Commissioner, could I first pass a copy of a witness statement to Ms Roberts and tender a copy to the Commission please.

EXHIBIT #MEAA3 WITNESS STATEMENT OF TONYA ROBERTS

PN873

MR O'DONNELL: Could you state your full name and address please?---Tonya Roberts (Address Supplied)

PN874

And the document in front of you, is that the statement you made in this matter?---That is right.

PN875

Is there anything you wish to change or vary in that document?---No.

PN876

Could I take you to paragraph 9?---Now, in previous evidence, you were part of a panel that was set up to select the broadcasting staff for the new Ballarat station. Is that correct?---Yes, that is right.

PN877

How were you selected for that panel?---I was approached about my availability initially because I think there was a desire to have somebody who had an overview of what the good stuff was, I suppose, what was required in people to work well in regional stations.

PN878

If you would look at paragraph 9, is that a fair view of what happened during the process of interview and discussion with Ms Bedford?---yes.

PN879

So there was no doubt in your mind that the position would, as part of that position of statewide presented, receive penalties and meal allowances because of the rosters that would attach to that position?---That is right.

**** TONYA ROBERTS XN MR O'DONNELL

PN880

In November or December last year did anyone from ABC management talk to you about your role in this selection process?---No.

PN881

Has anyone from ABC spoken to you about your role in this process?---Yes, Hanan.

PN882

And when was that?---Two months ago, I am guessing, some time in the last two months - between six weeks and two months ago.

PN883

So Mr Ian Mannix didn't speak to you about whether certain commitments or offers or inducements were made to any of the candidates in November or December 2003?---No, he didn't.

PN884

Commissioner, I have no further questions.

PN885

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr O'Donnell. Mr Caruso?

PN886

MR CARUSO: Thank you, Commissioner.

<CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR CARUSO [10.13am]

PN887

MR CARUSO: Ms Roberts, in paragraph 9, you do talk about the discussion that was had with Ms Bedford and the selection panel. Do you recall how long that discussion lasted?---Are you talking about the initial discussion or the subsequent one?

PN888

Well, here you say in point 8 - paragraph 8 that on 25 March 2003 - - -?---Yes.

PN889

- - - Mr Allan rang Ms Bedford and urged her to accept the position of presenter. Now, were you present - you were obviously present during - - -?---Yes, I certainly was.

**** TONYA ROBERTS XXN MR CARUSO

PN890

Okay, so, how long did that conversation go for?---About 13 minutes.

PN891

About 13 minutes, okay?---Well, it wasn't 20.

PN892

Okay?---But it was more than 10.

PN893

Now, you say in point 9 that penalties and meal allowances were discussed. Do you recall that meal allowances were definitely discussed during that conversation?---It is interesting that you ask me that because looking at the writing I am just thinking were meal allowances - I think they were. You know, I have a clear recollection in my mind of Tony sitting there - because we had a speaker phone that we were grouped around - and of him saying, you know, this is the deal more or less and that there are penalties. Yes, I guess I would have trouble absolutely claiming that meal allowances were mentioned but I have a strong recollection that they were.

PN894

Okay. Were any other advantages of the position discussed with Ms Bedford?---Well, she got afternoons clear to spend time with her family - I mean, no, I mean, only in general terms surrounding the structure of it.

PN895

What about the actual position as presenter of - - -?---Well, the status of that role was certainly part of what was being underlined, yes and linked to that her suitability for that role.

PN896

Would you say that there was more time spent about the status of the role than actually discussing the penalties and allowances attached to it?---Yes, I would.

PN897

Okay. Do you understand when penalties and meal allowance are paid under - - -?---Yes.

**** TONYA ROBERTS XXN MR CARUSO

PN898

- - - the agreement?---Yes.

PN899

Did you realise that when the program was being produced out of Melbourne that the rosters did start at 6 am?---I don't know that I was really conscious that there was a time when it was being produced out of Melbourne.

PN900

Okay?---It wasn't really germane to my role.

PN901

That is fine. You say in - again in paragraph 9:

PN902

In attempting to persuade...

PN903

You used the word persuade. Was it Mr Allan just stating facts that there was a requirement for the shift to commence at 6 o'clock or 6 am and consequently under the agreement there would be penalties attached to it?---No, he wasn't just doing that.

PN904

Did he say to Ms Bedford during that conversation that he would arrange it in such a way that those penalties would always be paid?---No,

PN905

Okay?---I don't suppose he was empowered to say that.

PN906

And did he say that he would arrange it in such a way that the shift would always start at 6 am?---No.

PN907

Were you involved in any discussions surrounding Ms Krosch's offer of the position?---I was not there in the room because of - I think initially we - when the discussion was around whether there were penalties and meal allowances attached, no, I was not in the room.

**** TONYA ROBERTS XXN MR CARUSO

PN908

Thank you. No further questions from me, Commissioner.

PN909

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr O'Donnell?

<RE-EXAMINATION BY MR O'DONNELL [10.16am]

PN910

MR O'DONNELL: If I could just - during - and I guess there were breaks between interviews - was there any discussion about the statewide morning program, how it was going to be filled or anything?---I am not quite sure what you mean, do you mean, did we, sort of re-hash - - -

PN911

Well, did you and other members of the selection panel have discussions about who was the preferred candidate for that position?---Well, no, I don't think we did because we were waiting on Kathy to come back and indicate whether she would accept the role or not because that really was the linchpin for the rest of the positions to be filled.

PN912

Thank you, Commissioner.

PN913

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Thank you, Ms Roberts.

<THE WITNESS WITHDREW [10.17am]

PN914

THE COMMISSIONER: No further evidence from either side?

PN915

MR O'DONNELL: Not from the MEAA, Commissioner.

PN916

MR CARUSO: Not from the ABC, Commissioner.

PN917

THE COMMISSIONER: Not from the ABC. Submissions, Mr O'Donnell?

PN918

MR O'DONNELL: Commissioner, given the fragmented nature of this, are you going to require us to start submissions immediately - and I will explain why. I am mindful that I have got another matter with one of my colleagues before Commissioner Tolley at 11 o'clock and for certain internal reasons I actually would like to be part of that and I wonder whether you would be happy - I know you are going to be strict about time, but if we agree to written submissions, and say we agree by 5 o'clock, I would be happy and capable of delivering by 5 o'clock tomorrow night.

PN919

THE COMMISSIONER: Do you have a problem with that, Mr Caruso?

PN920

MR CARUSO: Well, we are ready to go but I don't see a problem with that, no. We would be satisfied with that.

PN921

THE COMMISSIONER: Written submissions suit me, I don't see the need for oral submissions if the parties are in a position to give me written submissions quickly. So if both parties can have written submissions to the Commission by 5 o'clock tomorrow.

PN922

MR CARUSO: Yes.

PN923

MR O'DONNELL: I do appreciate your generosity, Commissioner.

PN924

THE COMMISSIONER: That is all right, Mr O'Donnell. I will adjourn.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [10.20am]

INDEX

LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs

TONYA ROBERTS, SWORN PN872
EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR O'DONNELL PN872
EXHIBIT #MEAA3 WITNESS STATEMENT OF TONYA ROBERTS PN873
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR CARUSO PN887
RE-EXAMINATION BY MR O'DONNELL PN910
WITNESS WITHDREW PN914