C2004/5833, Transcript of Proceedings [2004] AIRCTrans 3740 (22 September 2004)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

O/N 13680

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER RAFFAELLI

No C2004/5833

FLIGHT ATTENDANTS' ASSOCIATION OF AUSTRALIA

and

QANTAS AIRWAYS LIMITED

Notification pursuant to section 99 of the Act
of an industrial dispute re process to be
implemented re transfer of Long Haul Division
Flight Attendants to Short Haul Division

SYDNEY

10.05 AM, MONDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER 2004

PN1

THE COMMISSIONER: Can I have the appearances, please?

PN2

MR M. WARBURTON: Yes, if it please the Commission, my name is Warburton and I appear on behalf of the FAAA in this matter. Appearing with me is Victoria Skinner and Mr Stephen Reed.

PN3

MS R. ROCHE: Commissioner, Ms Roche, I appear of Qantas Airways Ltd. I have with me today Alison Webster, who is the Sydney Cabin Crew Base Manager, Michael Leitch, who is the Manager of Air Crew Resourcing at Qantas and Jane Brunette, who is Crew Productivity Manager.

PN4

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, Mr Warburton.

PN5

MR WARBURTON: Yes, Commissioner, this is the FAAA application, but after some initial discussions with the company before their hearing today, it's my understanding that they don't object to moving into conciliation in the first instance before we go through the details of the matter and we are certainly not averse to that approach. So obviously it's in the hands of the Commission but it may be worthwhile to take that approach.

PN6

THE COMMISSIONER: Are you happy going to conference?

PN7

MS ROCHE: I am happy to go into conference, Commissioner. The one point I would make is that the company reserves its position to raise the jurisdictional argument should the matter proceed to arbitration. But we think conciliation is appropriate.

SHORT ADJOURNMENT [10.08am]

RESUMED [12.25pm]

PN8

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, Mr Warburton.

PN9

MR WARBURTON: Yes, if it pleases the Commission, we have been unable to reach an agreement in relation to how we might deal with this matter, so the FAAA seeks to have the matter heard. I am in the Commission's hands as to exactly how we proceed. I'm prepared now to make detailed submissions in relation to jurisdiction and also the transfer of process that has been proposed. I'm not sure whether my friend has any submissions she wants to make in relation to jurisdiction or any other matters.

PN10

MS ROCHE: Commissioner, it is correct to say that the parties have been unable to reach an agreement to settle this dispute. As I have foreshadowed, the respondent would like to make some submissions with respect to jurisdiction. I would like to seek an adjournment to prepare those submissions, Commissioner.

PN11

THE COMMISSIONER: The trouble is, on the basis of what I know in conciliation, the clock is ticking and employees need to give some kind of advice by tomorrow.

PN12

MS ROCHE: Perhaps, Commissioner, if I could say that it would be a short adjournment, perhaps 15 or 20 minutes.

PN13

THE COMMISSIONER: I see, I see.

PN14

MS ROCHE: Or if after lunch would be suitable.

PN15

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, thank you, Ms Roche for now. Mr Warburton have I got a copy of your certified agreement?

PN16

MR WARBURTON: I'm not sure that I've provided - I certainly haven't provided you one.

PN17

THE COMMISSIONER: What are the relevant parts of it?

PN18

MR WARBURTON: The relevant parts of the certified agreement are clause 6. I have actually got them here tagged if you like, clause 6 of the current enterprise agreement which is known as EBA 6, and also a clause which is also a part of this yellow tag, clause 67 of what is known as EBA 4. Clause 6 deals with a dispute settlement procedure and clause 67 deals with the transfer arrangements. I will hand that up. So if you just look at where the yellow tags are, certainly there.

PN19

THE COMMISSIONER: What is the clause?

PN20

MR WARBURTON: Clause 6 of the first - - -

PN21

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, I know that.

PN22

MR WARBURTON: Clause 67 in EBA 4, it's the second yellow tag on that copy that I have just provided. It's under the heading, Swap Courses.

PN23

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, I see. We will adjourn and we will resume at 2 o'clock at which time, Ms Roche, you can put any jurisdictional matters, and depending on that then you will proceed with your application, Mr Warburton. I just ask the parties to consider also over lunch, that if in fact this would proceed into arbitration, if in fact there is jurisdiction and the Commission is able to act, it may very well be that a decision of the Commission will in fact result in Qantas being unable to proceed with anything Friday or any other time thereafter. But I guess that is just a jurisdictional question. But as long as the parties know that the Commission won't be rushed into issuing decisions. It might issue interim decisions and I expect that the parties will be bound by those decisions. So again, if you can resolve the matter good and well, but otherwise the Commission is not here to do anything other than to proceed in its own manner and depending on its own resources. I should indicate that I am away for much of this week so whatever comes out it you may be stuck with and the consequences I guess are yours to live with. In any case we will adjourn until 2 o'clock.

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT [12.31pm]

RESUMED [2.06pm]

PN24

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, Mr Warburton.

PN25

MR WARBURTON: If it pleases the Commission, the parties have had some further discussions during the adjournment and we have what is an agreed settlement of this application in relation to the dispute notification. What I might just do is seek to put that on the record and if my friend has anything to add or to vary she can do that. So the agreement reached between the parties is that those employees remaining on the transfer list who do not receive or accept the offer of transfer will maintain their roster as allocated and will not receive a reserve line roster. Further, that the company and the FAAA will have discussions relating to a process which deals with future divisional transfers following on from today. If it pleases the Commission.

PN26

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN27

MS ROCHE: Thank you, Commissioner, I have had the opportunity to review the matters that Mr Warburton has just put and we are happy those to go on the record.

PN28

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, I won't say any more than note that there is agreement and to compliment the parties for reaching it. On that basis this proceeding is now adjourned. Thank you.

ADJOURNED ACCORDINGLY [2.07pm]