C2004/5411, Transcript of Proceedings [2004] AIRCTrans 3743 (22 September 2004)

AUSCRIPT AUSTRALASIA PTY LTD
ABN 72 110 028 825

Level 4, 179 Queen St MELBOURNE Vic 3000
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N 8472

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER MANSFIELD

C2004/5411

COMMUNICATIONS, ELECTRICAL,
ELECTRONIC, ENERGY, INFORMATION,
POSTAL, PLUMBING AND ALLIED SERVICES
UNION OF AUSTRALIA

and

TXU ELECTRICITY LIMITED

Application under section 170LW of the Act
for settlement of dispute re application of
agreement, in particular application of the
TXU disciplinary policy and disciplinary
action taken and proposed to be taken
against two employees

MELBOURNE

4.00 PM, MONDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER 2004

Continued from 30.8.04

PN599

THE COMMISSIONER: Is there any change in appearances?

PN600

MS PARKER: No, Commissioner, except that I don't have Mr Hayes with me today.

PN601

THE COMMISSIONER: Good. It is pleasing to see Mr McTaggart back from his long deserved recreation leave.

PN602

MR McTAGGART: Thank you, Commissioner.

PN603

THE COMMISSIONER: And nothing has changed in your absence, Mr - - -

PN604

MR McTAGGART: No.

PN605

THE COMMISSIONER: - - - McTaggart.

PN606

MR McTAGGART: It is a bit disappointing.

PN607

THE COMMISSIONER: Good. This is a report back on the section 170LW application lodged by the Electrical Trades Union in regard to the processes used by TXU in a disciplinary matter. Do we have a report, Ms Parker? Because at the moment we have set aside two days next week, I think, for the hearing of the argument in this matter, following the decision issued - - -

PN608

MS PARKER: That is right, Commissioner.

PN609

THE COMMISSIONER: - - - several weeks ago.

PN610

MS PARKER: Commissioner, there has been an attempt between the parties to resolve an issue regarding the summonses that have been issued by the Commission, and although we haven't managed to completely resolve our differences in relation to that and there are some significant issues still outstanding, I was contacted by the company's representative just after 3 today and, a without prejudiced position has been put to the union. And I haven't as yet been able to get instructions from my client in relation to that proposal.

PN611

And I know that the report back was listed for 4 o'clock today so, it is unfortunate I am not able to really clarify where we are in terms of that proposal at this stage. However, it would seem - and I have had discussions with my friend, it would seem practical, or, I think, appropriate in the circumstances that the report back, if it suited the Commission, be put off for a period of 48 hours to allow me to get some instructions about what has been put to the union - - -

PN612

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN613

MS PARKER: - - - and if necessary, to report back and, hopefully, resolve any issue regarding the summonses should the proceedings still be going ahead at that stage.

PN614

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, what I might propose, Ms Parker, is that - simply, that I will leave it to the parties to advise my office of any developments and you can do that be email or whatever, and if it is necessary to have another report back hearing we will schedule one as soon as possible.

PN615

MS PARKER: Yes, Commissioner.

PN616

THE COMMISSIONER: Good. But other - from your point of view, Ms Parker, things are going along in a normal fashion - - -

PN617

MS PARKER: Well - - -

PN618

THE COMMISSIONER: - - - to a reasonable extent.

PN619

MS PARKER: - - - not entirely, Commissioner, but it may not be worth making a great deal of noise about it until I get some instructions - - -

PN620

THE COMMISSIONER: I see.

PN621

MS PARKER: - - - from my client. We reserve our position in terms of a statement that was filed by Mr McTaggart and, depending on our review of that statement which came in today, the union may also - I anticipate or foreshadow at this stage, that the union will seek a direction in 48 hours time of thereabouts for orders to file some statements in reply, and also indicate our position in relation to this late filing of the statement.

PN622

And, as I mentioned, there are still some issues we need to deal with in relation to the summonses. As yet there has been no documents produced by the company, even in seeking to be in seeking to be in part compliance with that summons, so, (a) we need to call for those documents to be produced and then resolve any outstanding issues in relation to the - - -

PN623

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN624

MS PARKER: - - - various descriptions and documents.

PN625

THE COMMISSIONER: Good. Thanks, Ms Parker. Mr Dixon, do you have anything to add to that?

PN626

MR DIXON: Yes thanks, Commissioner, we do have a few things which we would like to put. For a start, Ms Parker has summarised the position fairly well regarding summonses and for documents. There has been correspondence between the parties trying, from our point of view, to narrow the scope of the initial request to the summonses to something which we think is appropriate and we are happy to have further discussions to see if that can be narrowed.

PN627

In going - in discussions on those documents, we have also come to what we think is an agreed position about the SUCV policies which have been a - to be applied, but some of the documentation being asked for by the correspondence in still in dispute and that further discussion is needed. We have, due partly to the discussions which have taken place directly and also outside on the EBA, put a proposal to the ETU on behalf of Mr Loveday and Mr Wall in these proceedings and that is being considered and Ms Parker has not had the opportunity to consider it in detail and nor to discuss it with Mr Hayes.

PN628

So we think standing it over for two days or until we call it back on would be an appropriate path. We do think we will need to come back on before you, if only to, perhaps, canvass those documents which are still being sought if we are unable to close the gap. I might say the proposal, as we see it, which is being put forward would, hopefully, if it was accepted or if there is further negotiation on it, obviate the need for any hearing that is intended. It is not just a proposal put forward, there is no secret to it, it is without prejudice. It is a way of dealing with the interim problem with Mr Wall and Mr Loveday without prejudice to the parties because there is a process being forward in the agreement, and I should hasten to add, it is not finalised, it is not accepted by both sides yet, but there is a tentative proposal dealing with these policies which may take away the need for a decision to be made by the Commission in the broad sense.

PN629

In other words, if we can agree how to deal with Mr Loveday and Mr Wall, the tentative agreement in the EBA may take care of the policies over the next three years. So, we - hopefully that would be the case. We are just still talking about the details of that and neither - that just in the proposal which Ms Parker is getting instructions on. That is the matter which we have before you, so the document is still not agreed. We still think - we maintain they are still too wide and irrelevant etcetera, and Ms Parker says there is a need to prove various things through the documentation.

PN630

And that is the matter of Mr Wall and Mr Loveday. We do have other matters which we need to discuss with you, Commissioner, whether you want to formally close these proceedings or not, and that is they are matters which again, Ms Parker has not had time to have instructions on, that is continuing industrial action and we would be asking you for your availability over the next week.

PN631

THE COMMISSIONER: Is this in relation to - - -

PN632

MR DIXON: The EBA.

PN633

THE COMMISSIONER: - - - the EBA negotiations, Mr Dixon.

PN634

MR DIXON: Yes, it is. And also where we are with the EBA, we would like a formal hearing back before this Commission because the parties are so close but, as always, there is a small gap to be bridged and we don't seem to be getting there. So we would like to ask you formally for your availability on both those proceedings.

PN635

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, we will go off the record. Thank you.

NO FURTHER PROCEEDINGS RECORDED