C2004/6027, Transcript of Proceedings [2004] AIRCTrans 3904 (6 October 2004)

AUSCRIPT AUSTRALASIA PTY LTD
ABN 72 110 028 825

Level 4, 179 Queen St MELBOURNE Vic 3000
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N 8594

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT WATSON

C2004/6027

AUSTRALIAN MUNICIPAL,
ADMINISTRATIVE, CLERICAL
AND SERVICES UNION

and

AUSTRALIAN VOLUNTEERS
INTERNATIONAL

Application under section 170LW of the
Act for settlement of dispute re scope of
The agreement concerning recruitment

MELBOURNE

2.02 PM, MONDAY, 27 SEPTEMBER 2004

PN1

MS S. OZDEMIR: I represent the ASU in this matter and here with me today are MR G. TOMISICH and MR A. JENNINGS representing the organisation.

PN2

MR P. BRITTON: I represent Dimiti Pfeiffer, the CEO. She is currently overseas so I am acting in that capacity. With me is MR D. JONES, senior manager of our business services and HR adviser, MS E. O'MALLEY.

PN3

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Good. Thank you, Mr Britton. Ms Ozdemir?

PN4

MS OZDEMIR: Thank you, Commissioner. On 21 September, ASU notified the Commission of a dispute. It is a dispute that arises under the dispute settling procedure in an agreement that we have with the AVI. The relevant agreement is the AVI Certified Agreement 2003 which is the current agreement of the AVI. As per our dispute notification, the matter in dispute relates to non advertisement of a position which is recruitment - recruiting a position of an incumbent without advertising and also - which the union regards as contrary to the agreement between the parties in this certified agreement.

PN5

Clause 20 of the agreement which is - it must be pointed out here that although the process of the clause 20 takes at least about eight weeks prior to bringing the matters before the Commission, but our attempt to continue to resolve the matter internally became, you know, to a sudden halt and that was because we received notification - correspondence from the employer indicating that we should take, you know, sort of solace in what they indicated to us in their undated letter that we received, and we believe that is was about 14 or 15 September, indicating to us that we don't have any matters and we should just basically let it go.

PN6

And so that we thought that this actually halted any provision for us to continue appropriately address the clause or the process given within that clause and hence why we brought the matter before you. Now, it is - we want to - the relationship between the employees and employers and the union is a good one at the AVI. We didn't want these matters to come thus far and it did and that - you know, sort of, we don't take any solace from it, but when the matters aren't dealt in that manner that we thought that, you know, sort of we can get it arbitrated in the Commission in a conference if that suits our colleagues on this side.

PN7

And that the background to this case is that there is a current incumbent who has been appointed to the position, my understanding is back in 1999, and the position is in Darwin. This person or the incumbent was then duly offered a position within AVI which is a current position and that we were given information to the fact that the original application for the position indicated it was a full time ongoing position and, given that the AVI in the current - in the past six months or so went through funding cuts, meant that they had to go around closing their interstate offices which meant that the current - the AVI offices in Melbourne had to lose numerous numbers of employees.

PN8

The employer was - and the union and the employees sat down and came to a resolution that any employee who takes the redundancy package and leaves the organisation will have a choice to apply for any position that became vacant in the organisation within the period of 12 months. So that we feel that it is not about the current incumbent in the position. It is not about the position itself. It is how it was handled. That we believe, you know, it should have been advertised for everyone to have an equal opportunity and access to apply for.

PN9

So - and thus far we requested, you know, sort of letters of prior obligations that the employer indicated that they had given to the current incumbent. We didn't receive anything until this morning and that, you know, sort of we were told that we were doing this because the current employee wasn't a union member or that we had some sort of a benefit out of this. But we are only doing it from a transparency processes, accountability and also due regard to the people who currently - who are working or not working for the AVI who might have an opportunity to gain employment.

PN10

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: What is the position?

PN11

MS OZDEMIR: Our position? Our - - -

PN12

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, what is the position in dispute?

PN13

MS OZDEMIR: The position in dispute that the - the position - there is two issues. One of them that the manager position not advertised as per the 2003 certified agreement and the validity of the prior obligation to the current incumbent in the position if it exists as per '99 certified agreement as indicated by the employee.

PN14

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And the position is what? Of a manager?

PN15

MS OZDEMIR: It is advertised as a manager but it falls within the bounds of the CA so it is an award position.

PN16

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And who filled the position?

PN17

MS OZDEMIR: Who filled the position?

PN18

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN19

MS OZDEMIR: It was given to the person in Darwin.

PN20

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And the person in Darwin was then an employee of AVI?

PN21

MS OZDEMIR: That is exactly right.

PN22

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Was Darwin one of the - - -

PN23

MS OZDEMIR: And still is.

PN24

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Darwin was one of the locations closed down?

PN25

MS OZDEMIR: No.

PN26

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No. Yes. And you say a problem arises in that there was no advertisement internally for the position?

PN27

MS OZDEMIR: The employer indicates that when they originally advertised the position back in '99, that position was advertised internally and externally. A number of people applied for the position. They couldn't get a person that was suitable for the position and hence the current incumbent applied and got the position and that in their correspondence to us that they believe that the position was one that of a secondment position but it was - you know, sir, that wasn't how the position originally was advertised.

PN28

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It was a what position, sorry?

PN29

MS OZDEMIR: A secondment.

PN30

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: A secondment.

PN31

MS OZDEMIR: A secondment. That it was temporary in its nature.

PN32

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And the employee in Darwin, where was he or she before - - -

PN33

MS OZDEMIR: Melbourne office.

PN34

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: In the Melbourne office. Yes. Very well. Thank you. Mr Britton, what is the position of AVI?

PN35

MR BRITTON: I guess our position is that we had a prior obligation to the employee in Darwin, namely that because Melbourne is actually his home base that in his appointment there was a condition there that he would be able to return to Melbourne to a position within the head office.

PN36

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Very well.

PN37

MR BRITTON: Any?

PN38

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is there anything further on the record or I will go into conference? Is there anything further on the record otherwise I will adjourn into conference. Yes?

PN39

MS O'MALLEY: We have copies of the correspondence to the employee - - -

PN40

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN41

MS O'MALLEY: - - - regarding the temporary appointment.

PN42

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Perhaps it might be best if we deal with that in conference and see where that leads.

PN43

MS O'MALLEY: Okay. All right.

PN44

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Very well. All right. I will adjourn into conference.

NO FURTHER PROCEEDINGS RECORDED