|
|
Home
| Databases
| WorldLII
| Search
| Feedback
Australian Industrial Relations Commission Transcripts |
AUSCRIPT PTY LTD
ABN 76 082 664 220
Level 2, 16 St George's Tce, PERTH WA 6000
Tel:(08)9325 6029 Fax:(08)9325 7096
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
O/N F153
AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL
RELATIONS COMMISSION
SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT LACY
C2003/1240
C2003/1059
UNION OF CHRISTMAS ISLAND WORKERS
and
CHRISTMAS ISLAND ADMINISTRATION
Notification pursuant to section 99 of the Act of an industrial
dispute re the employer's intention to stand down employees at the Christmas Island District High School and to terminate all cleaners
and gardeners employed and replace them with contractors
MINISTER FOR TERRITORIES AND REGIONAL
SERVICES
and
UNION OF CHRISTMAS ISLAND WORKERS
Notification pursuant to section 99 of the Act of an industrial
dispute re the alleged refusal by cleaners at the Christmas Island
District High School to clean the new wing of the school
PERTH
12.02 PM, WEDNESDAY, 21 JANUARY 2004
Continued from 15.12.03
PN167
MR G. THOMPSON: I appear on behalf of the Union of Christmas Island Workers.
PN168
MR G. McCORRY: I appear on behalf of the Minister.
PN169
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: On the last occasion that this matter was before me, I gave directions for the Administration, Christmas Island Administration that is, to file a statement setting out certain factual information following on from the previous hearing. I have received a copy of a statement in my Chambers and I understand you also have received a copy of that, Mr Thompson; is that right?
PN170
MR THOMPSON: Yes, your Honour. I have received a copy of a statement which says it is the Christmas Island Administration now known as the Department of Transport and Regional Services, Christmas Island (DOTARS, Christmas Island). In response to the directions of the Commission dated 15 December 2003 states a number of points. Eight points. And then a further two points. And then a further three points on three pages.
PN171
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. That is the same one that I have.
PN172
MR THOMPSON: Sorry?
PN173
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is the same one I have.
PN174
MR THOMPSON: Yes.
PN175
PN176
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Did you wish to say anything else to that, Mr McCorry? In respect of that, did you want to say anything else in respect of that statement?
PN177
MR McCORRY: Only to advise the Commission that prior to that, the Assistant Secretary to the Minister with responsibility for the Territories Branch wrote to the union clarifying the extent of its offer of assistance and that was sent to the union on 19 December. And I provided Gordon with a copy of it in Perth.
PN178
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. All right. Thank you. Mr Thompson, did you want to say anything in response to that document?
PN179
MR THOMPSON: Your Honour, I have received the letter dated 19 December in the name of Andrew Wilson, Assistant Secretary, Territories Branch of DOTARS. Copy sent to Grant Barrett, Director of DOTARS, Perth, and Allan Thornton, Acting Principal of the school on Christmas Island. It is a two page letter. Market testing of cleaning and gardening at the school. Do you wish me to comment on the letter and the statement or - - -
PN180
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, if you don't mind. Do I have a copy of the letter that you are referring to?
PN181
MR THOMPSON: I trust that you have a copy of the letter, your Honour.
PN182
MR McCORRY: I don't believe your Honour has. I am happy to provide a copy.
PN183
MR THOMPSON: Mine is unsigned. But I guess that is the way they do things down at DOTARS these days.
PN184
PN185
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, sorry, Mr Thompson?
PN186
MR THOMPSON: Thank you, your Honour. Your Honour, the detail of the statement from the Department, let me put this to you, that it is a version of events. And at page 2, point 7, I do have to take issue. Point 7 says:
PN187
Since that time the UCI has made no approaches to the Christmas Island Administration to avail itself of the assistance offered in March 2003.
PN188
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is since, what, July, is it 2003?
PN189
MR THOMPSON: We have made no approaches to the:
PN190
... Administration to avail itself of the assistance offered in March 2003.
PN191
Your Honour, my comment about that is that on 21 March, which the statement acknowledges, the union admitted an expression of interest.
PN192
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, but as I understand it, that reference to that time, since that time, refers back to paragraph 6 where it says:
PN193
Between March and July 2003 UCI had discussions.
PN194
So, I think they mean since July 2003, don't they? I think that is the intention of it.
PN195
MR THOMPSON: The previous documentation given, I think, indicates that in early April there was an exchange of - and I provided that documentation.
PN196
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.
PN197
MR THOMPSON: There is an exchange of e-mails about - - -
PN198
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It is UCIW1, isn't it?
PN199
MR THOMPSON: Yes. However, it was a number of pages. About 20 or 30 or something.
PN200
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.
PN201
MR THOMPSON: About how we might go about setting up a company who was going to be providing the advice and had any agreements been entered into about providing advice; had any payments been committed to and so on and so forth. All of that added to nought. Now, on 21 March the thing that we provided, in a formal sense, to the Administration was an expression of interest in providing those circumstances on certain conditions. That was a formal communication but we have had no formal response to that expression of interest. There were these exchange of e-mails amongst the three parties.
PN202
The organisation known as Group Training which does provide some services under contract for the Small Business Development Corporation or the Small Business Development Corporation has a contract with the Commonwealth to provide certain sorts of services to do with small businesses, advice to small businesses, and Group Training has got a sub-contract to provide some sort of advice to small businesses on Christmas Island. The extent of the communication between us and the Commonwealth was, has any contract been entered into with anybody, at Group Training or the Small Business Development Corporation or anywhere else about setting up a company. And there hadn't been.
PN203
So, the issue is dead. The issue is dead in - but what is outstanding is that there was no response to our expression of interest which was a formal communication. There was not even an acknowledgment of our expression of interest. Not even an acknowledgment that they had received it. Now, those communications in April - and I don't know of any discussions in July that were formal. We assumed the issue is dead. If you don't get a response to your expression of interest, I think it is reasonable to assume that the issue is dead. Now, your Honour, it is not dead. The letter says that they are going to start the whole thing again and we are going to be asked to submit a tender in sometime in the period - the middle of February/early March they will re-open the market testing process.
PN204
And they are offering, the offer still stands, of financial assistance. They are prepared to meet costs of up to $2000. The employees or the union to avail themselves of the offer of financial assistance. And that is in a total of $2000, it appears. Now, $2000 per member. What happens if they want to go off on their own individually? What happens if all of them want to put in expressions of interest separately?
PN205
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, I don't think that is the intent of it.
PN206
MR THOMPSON: But nor is the Trades and Labour Council or the Australian Council of Trade Unions responsible for setting up businesses. But the idiocy is there, in the letter, that the Trades and Labour Council of WA or the Australian Council of Trade Unions should be helping a small group of workers on Christmas Island set up a contract cleaning company. Now, that is plainly stupid. There is no prospect of that happening. And why would there be? $2000 doesn't go anywhere towards setting up a company such that the needs of this group of workers would be met. That is, you would set up a company to do the job of providing cleaning services at the Christmas Island school, cleaning and gardening.
PN207
I don't think $2000 would go anywhere near the cost of setting up such a company. The company that had been spoken to about this is Abbott Business Consultants, one of two companies that regularly visit Christmas Island to provide business advisory services and accounting and auditing services, tax returns, and so on. Involved in advising companies on the Island, Abbott Business Consultants. I can give you an example. To spend a day and a half in the offices of the Union of Christmas Island Workers to audit our books will cost us $2500. It is a straightforward audit.
PN208
I mean, when you are setting up a company and you have got to deal with groups of workers whose first language isn't English and in some cases no English at all, and that would be the majority of the people, no English at all, $2000 goes nowhere in setting up such a company.
PN209
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I mean, I would have thought, and I may be wrong about this, that the processes for setting up companies are pretty well established.
PN210
MR THOMPSON: Well, your Honour, I am told, you know, you might be able to set up the business name and register the company with ASIC for 1500 or $2000. Well, is it your company? You know, Graham McCorry says that there is a company that can provide this service for 1500 or $2000. That is all right for Graham McCorry. He is in Perth. You don't have to write in costs for flying to Christmas Island to talk to these people; you don't have to write in costs for accommodation, food; the costs of being on the Island for at least 3 or 4 days. I think that it is not reasonable to expect that anybody would be able to get away with setting up a company that would be required to establish this sort of business on Christmas Island, particularly with these people in mind as the principals of the company.
PN211
It would be very difficult to see that being achieved with $2000. In fact, I don't think it is possible. And their argument is that their offer is adequate. Now, the reason that $2000 was being offered is because a similar exercise involved in the market testing of stevedoring cost about that much. And that was 1996. And I can assure you that there wasn't much required of the workers there, because the mine, of course, as you know, became the principal, the 60 per cent owner of the Indian Ocean Stevedoring Company. But the mine has all of the in-house expertise that you would need to set up a stevedoring company. So, for them to say, well, we are going to, you know, give you $2000 because that is what we gave the workers to set up the stevedoring company, is absolutely baloney.
PN212
I mean, I think you know yourself the cost of going to Christmas Island and the cost of staying there, your Honour. It is just not an adequate amount of money to set up the company. If they were to contract a company to provide a specific service - and this Department is so expert at setting up contracts for service provision. If this Department were to call tenders for a company to set up - for a business advisory group or a company, to set up a contract cleaning company, well, you know, let them do that. But to say, well, you have got to worry about that and there is $2000 to do it with is just not accepted. I don't accept it. I don't accept the responsibility for $2000.
PN213
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: But we seem to be getting away from my jurisdiction, arguing about - - -
PN214
MR THOMPSON: Well, I am just responding to their letter, your Honour.
PN215
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, I understand that. But the point is, at the end of the letter to the union it says that:
PN216
The offer of financial assistance is made without prejudice. It should not be construed as confirmation that DOTARS will contract out school cleaning and gardening services or intimating that any preference could or would be given.
PN217
The point I am getting at is that the dispute that I am dealing with is a question of whether or not DOTARS can get to a situation of retrenching its current employees in circumstances where it is contracting out the services, because your application was under section 99. But you sought to invoke the - - -
PN218
MR THOMPSON: Section 121.
PN219
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. The provisions of 121. And it seems to me that the nature of your application is that if the government or DOTARS is going ahead with the contracting out, whether or not I can make an order that it not dismiss its employees. Now, that question doesn't even arise on the basis of the information that has been provided by DOTARS about its intention in relation to the contracting out.
PN220
MR THOMPSON: Well, I guess DOTARS are responding to what they perceive to be an obligation explained to them, that they made a commitment through the Administration. And they are explaining the limit of their commitment. And I am saying - - -
PN221
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Well, they made that commitment, though, in - - -
PN222
MR THOMPSON: - - - that their credibility is to be seriously challenged. And here is another example of why.
PN223
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, but they made that commitment in the context of another dispute which, in fact, was part of the resolution of that dispute. And they are saying here, well, we have complied with the terms of the agreement or the commitments. And we still say we are not going to contract out. At this stage we are just going to continue market testing. I don't know how long they can market test but I suppose they can do it for the rest of the life of Christmas Island, if they want to.
PN224
MR THOMPSON: Your Honour, that takes me to my next point. Thank you. And that is that how long can this market testing go on? And maybe what we need to require is a definition of market testing, a time frame. And what does the law have to say about the constant state of anxiety that these people are maintaining? The employees are undergoing a torture. And I put it to you that that extends to the meaning and value of their lives. I mean, most of the people at the school we are talking about are fairly senior workers. They have been around a fair time.
PN225
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I think I met most of them.
PN226
MR THOMPSON: I am sure you have, your Honour. We went round and met them for the inspection, you will recall. I would say most are over 50. And they are looking at sending their children off the Island to further education. And they won't be able to do that.
PN227
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: But there is no actual - - -
PN228
MR THOMPSON: They won't be able to do that if they don't have jobs. And if they lose these jobs, then there is no prospect of further employment or alternative employment at their age with their skills, their lack of English. These are the sorts of permanent jobs that must be maintained if we are to see a fair distribution of the goodies of life on Christmas Island. Now - - -
PN229
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: But there is no immediate threat to their employment at the moment.
PN230
MR THOMPSON: Your Honour, if you don't mind, put yourself in their shoes. The workers at the airport have been through this as well. Other workers are going through similar problems. These people at the school have been under this threat of losing their jobs since February last year. We must be requiring an employer to put an end to this torture. They have not received, obviously, satisfactory bids for this work. There has got to be a cap on it. We have got all sorts of reasons not to have those jobs contracted out. These people have got lives to live and they have got to be able to plan for the future of their children in particular. And to be constantly told your jobs are under review, under review, under review, is unfair and unreasonable.
PN231
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: But what can I do about that?
PN232
MR THOMPSON: Well, you can allow me to make statements like that.
PN233
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: But what powers have I got to do anything?
PN234
MR THOMPSON: What can you do about it? What can you do about it? Well, I don't know. What is the extent of the powers of the Commission? Who knows? I don't.
PN235
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, I can't stop an employer from making economic decisions about its business or how it is going to conduct its business. No, I can't. I mean, at the end of the day, there may be an argument that you have raised under section 121 about what orders I might be able to make to preserve the employment of the existing employees, but there are still a lot of legal issues to be debated about that as well.
PN236
MR THOMPSON: Yes.
PN237
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All I am saying at this stage, the Commonwealth or DOTARS is proposing to continue market testing. I have no power or jurisdiction over it to say, well, you can't do that. And although I might readily accept that it creates some sort of anxiety for the current employees, that is not a matter with which I can necessarily deal.
PN238
MR THOMPSON: Look, I understand, Commissioner, that there is, you know, problems of jurisdiction. But the Commission makes economic decisions about thing generally for workers and employers in the National Wage Case and so on.
PN239
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Wages and allowances and conditions of employment but - - -
PN240
MR THOMPSON: And those are economic decisions made by the Commission on the basis of what is fair and just. You know? In the context of the broader community and the general good health of business operators. You know?
PN241
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: But market testing is not a condition of employment, is it?
PN242
MR THOMPSON: No, it is not a condition of employment.
PN243
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, how do I have any - - -
PN244
MR THOMPSON: But you don't think that there is a question of health and safety here? Don't you think that being kept in a state of perpetual anxiety, that you are driving people into perhaps a state of anxiety which results in the workplace being a hazard? People are having to use judgment when it comes to application of chemicals, cleaning chemicals, and so on. They are having to use judgment in the use of electrical equipment and so on. Being distracted, being in a state of high anxiety, I think has an impact on the health and safety in the workplace. And the Commission does have powers to deal with those sorts of matters.
PN245
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, where do you say it gets its power to deal with health and safety?
PN246
MR THOMPSON: Well, we refer any disputes about health and safety to the Industrial Commission, I think, under the - - -
PN247
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I don't know about referring them to the Commission. I can refer them to the Secretary of the Department and ask that an investigation be conducted.
PN248
MR THOMPSON: Well, I think if the Secretary of the Department has a dispute with the union or the union has a dispute with the Secretary of the Department, where does that go? I thought it went to the Commission. It could go to the Commission. We could refer it to the Commission.
PN249
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Sorry, which Commission are you referring to when you say - - -
PN250
MR THOMPSON: The Federal Commission.
PN251
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The Federal Commission. Yes. What I am saying is if a matter is raised in the course of a dispute in the Commission about health and safety, I think my powers are limited to referring the matter to the Secretary of the Department that is the Department of Workplace Relations and Small Business.
PN252
MR THOMPSON: Well, that would be helpful.
PN253
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And asking that the inspectors conduct an inspection of the matter.
PN254
MR THOMPSON: I thought there were arbitration powers, your Honour. If I am wrong - - -
PN255
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, arbitration powers in respect of matters that are allowable under section 87A of the Act. But what do you say is the nature of the condition that you are seeking to have resolved? Sorry, 89A, I should say.
PN256
MR THOMPSON: Maybe I need to reflect on that and come back to you about it.
PN257
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. I mean, you have got an agreement in place at the moment. Do you say it falls within any provision of the agreement?
PN258
MR THOMPSON: Your Honour, we have a separate and unregistered - what we would call a draft health and safety agreement. Now, that health and safety agreement is unregistered. It has not been voted upon. But I believe it contains provisions, and I will check it, which would have us refer disputes to the Industrial Commission for resolution. Now, I will go back and I will have a look at that draft and maybe that is where I am getting myself tangled up here about powers of the Commission. Because if the agreement gives the Commission the powers to determine disputes, then the Commission does have that power. But the broad powers of the Commission, I thought you might be able to invoke those powers.
PN259
And I certainly think that the general power of the Commission to ensure that there is fair and just dealings between employees and employers would go to the health and safety issues. And maintaining a perpetual state of anxiety amongst a section of its workforce on Christmas Island, I would have thought would have been a serious health and safety question. Anyway, as I said - - -
PN260
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Do you have a copy of the Act there?
PN261
MR THOMPSON: - - - I will come back to you on that about - - -
PN262
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Do you have a copy of the Act there?
PN263
MR THOMPSON: No.
PN264
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, section 97 covers safety, health and welfare of employees and the Commission's powers in relation to those sorts of matters in determining an industrial dispute.
PN265
MR THOMPSON: Yes.
PN266
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: But at this stage, as I say, there is no - I mean, you would need to put forward some form of words or claim that would be justiciable under those provisions.
PN267
MR THOMPSON: Yes. At this point, suffice to say that I will alert you to the state of affairs as far as these workers are concerned.
PN268
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, I will adjourn the matter into conference after I have given Mr McCorry an opportunity to respond.
PN269
MR THOMPSON: Thank you, your Honour.
PN270
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Mr McCorry, did you want to say anything in response to - - -
PN271
MR McCORRY: Thank you, your Honour. The Commonwealth's offer to the union is to financially underwrite the provision of advice not to - actually go ahead and establish a company or anything. And the documents make clear, no decision has been made on whether or not these services are going to be contracted out or continue to be done by Commonwealth employees. In terms of the actual cost, and this is merely an aside, I note that Mr Oakley's e-mail to the union on the cost of establishing the company is about 1100 to 1300 and that appears in the document, UCIW1 about 10 or 12 pages in. Now, as the statement makes clear, and I am referring to the document DOTARS 1 on page 2, paragraph 2, of the status of the expressions of interest by the UCIW and others:
PN272
The expressions of interest lodged by the UCIW have no status beyond indicating those parties who lodged expressions of interest might be interested in providing the services. There is no obligation on the Commonwealth to formally respond to that.
PN273
And I note from the previous occasion this matter was before the Commission that the then Official Secretary, Mr Ray Stone, had in fact confirmed over the telephone to the Secretary of the union that the expression of interest had been received. Now, what we would say is that, in relation to the issue of the alleged state of anxiety, the UCIW and its members have known for many, many years that the Commonwealth does not wish to be involved in the provision of direct services to the extent that it does. There were attempts to contract out the Power Station dating back to 1995. There are references in documents to the contracting out of the Health Service. In fact, it appears in the 1995 Certified Agreement which applied to the Health Service, the contracting out of the service was contemplated, and I have made it clear over the past several years what the Commonwealth's general position is in relation to direct provision of these services.
PN274
So, the union and the members of the union certainly know what the Commonwealth's position is and as the - - -
PN275
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That doesn't mean they won't feel anxious about it.
PN276
MR McCORRY: Indeed. I am not saying that that is not the case. But we would say that there cannot be any heightened sense of anxiety by what has taking place at the moment. It has been made clear that no decision has been made on contracting out and it is still in the process of reviewing it, and the Commonwealth will periodically do this on the basis that conditions might change at particular times and in fact we - - -
PN277
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: How much notice will the employees get though if a decision is taken to - what is the process, sorry, if a tender is accepted, if the Commonwealth says: all right, we will accept this tender for the cleaning and gardening services. What applies from that?
PN278
MR McCORRY: The usual process would be there would be a notification of the acceptance of a tender. The starting date of that would not necessarily be defined unless it was some considerable time in advance. There may even be negotiations about when it would take place. The Commonwealth, under the Certified Agreement, would be obliged and has done, notified the union, at the first indication that there may be a redundancy situation and to discuss whether - - -
PN279
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Sorry. They have done that, did you say?
PN280
MR McCORRY: Yes, when the issue came up - - -
PN281
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.
PN282
MR McCORRY: - - - the union has been notified that a redundancy situation has arisen. And on the previous occasions involved, the people down at the Marine Department - of the affected employees were invited to come and discuss the matter with the Official Secretary. Advantage was taken of that and they were not actually given notice of termination until some 5 or 6 weeks after that. The Certified Agreement requires a period of 12 weeks notice to terminate and also makes provision that their employment continues to - if there is a period of part notice being worked and part payment in lieu - their employment is deemed to continue until the expiry, whatever notice period.
PN283
So they would have at the very minimum, I would say, 4 months notice of any changes. It is clearly the case that the affected employees who know their jobs, know what the work requires, will be prime candidates for being re-employed by any firm which did contract out - the contract was let to. I cannot see that any successful tenderer would be flying in employees from off island to do this work. So, it is clearly work that is going to be done by local people.
PN284
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: But it wouldn't necessarily mean that all of them would get work.
PN285
MR McCORRY: But that may very well be the case. An assessment has been made, and this was a matter of evidence before the - a proceeding before the Commission last year, that some 160 to 200 person hours of cleaning per week are required and we are talking here about, understand, five employees who are working those sort of hours. Now, whether they are going to be worked on the same basis and under the same remuneration system, I have got no idea. That would depend upon what ultimately happens.
PN286
It may very well be that once the costs of providing these services are calculated it proves cheaper to continue these people in their employment, and that is part of what the market testing is all about. Well, the Commonwealth may not like the costs of this. I can't see that they are going to be happy to pay more than what the current costs are by engaging a contractor. And that is my submissions, your Honour.
PN287
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. All right. Well, do you have any objection to adjourning the matter into conference?
PN288
MR McCORRY: No, your Honour.
PN289
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr Thompson, do you have any objection to adjourning into conference?
PN290
MR THOMPSON: No, your Honour. One matter. I have been looking through the file. I am trying to find the note that says that the administration acknowledge receipt of our expression of interest in March. You said that there was a document, is there?
PN291
MR McCORRY: No, your Honour. It was a remark my friend made at the - the matter was last on before you on 15 December, a telephone call.
PN292
MR THOMPSON: Yes, it was a verbal communication.
PN293
MR McCORRY: Yes.
PN294
MR THOMPSON: And then there was nothing more. Thank you, your Honour. That is all I have to say.
PN295
THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. All right. Very well. I will adjourn this matter into conference. I doubt that we will be needing to return to the record today.
OFF THE RECORD
NO FURTHER PROCEEDINGS RECORDED [12.41pm]
INDEX
LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs |
AustLII:
Copyright Policy
|
Disclaimers
|
Privacy Policy
|
Feedback
URL: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/AIRCTrans/2004/415.html