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Australian Industrial Relations Commission Transcripts |
AUSCRIPT PTY LTD
ABN 76 082 664 220
Level 4 179 Queen St MELBOURNE Vic 3000
(GPO Box 1114 MELBOURNE Vic 3001)
Tel:(03) 9672-5608 Fax:(03) 9670-8883
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
O/N 5930
AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL
RELATIONS COMMISSION
COMMISSIONER WHELAN
C2004/1270
MEDIA, ENTERTAINMENT AND
ARTS ALLIANCE
and
REHAME
Notification pursuant to section 99 of the
Act of a dispute re the company allegedly
employing staff on sham media contracts
which are not in accordance with the Award
MELBOURNE
3.39 PM, TUESDAY, 27 JANUARY 2004
PN1
MR P. O'DONNELL: I appear on behalf of the MEAA, Commissioner, and I am assisted by MS S. O'MELEY also from the MEAA.
PN2
MR P. BURCHARDT: I am instructed by MR J. SINISGALLI and I seek leave to appear on behalf of the respondent company.
PN3
THE COMMISSIONER: Mr O'Donnell, what do you say to the question of leave to appear?
PN4
MR O'DONNELL: Commissioner, as I do so often on these occasions, the position of the MEAA is we oppose representation by counsel in these matters. We also point out to you the requirements of section 42 of the Act on the matter of legal representation and say that none of the tests that are required for leave to be granted are in fact met or identified by the other party in this case.
PN5
THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Burchardt?
PN6
MR BURCHARDT: If the Commission pleases I am sure I don't need to labour the terms of section 42 with you. I press my application under section 42(3)(b) and (c). The section 99 notification states in summary - it alleges sham contracts being entered into by the respondent company in part to evade award obligations. That is putting the matter in the round, but have you had an opportunity to look at the notification, Commissioner?
PN7
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. Yes, I - - -
PN8
MR BURCHARDT: Yes. Well, I hope that is a fair characterisation of it. It wouldn't - it would be very difficult to think of two allegations that would more obviously raise issues going to law than an assertion that a company is entering into sham or fraudulent contracts and - or that it is doing so with a view to evading award obligations. These issues may well be ones with which both the applicant union, the Commission and hopefully myself are reasonably familiar but my client isn't. There is nobody else here to represent it today and on that footing I press the application. If the Commission pleases.
PN9
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. Well, I think at this point in time, Mr Burchardt, subject to where this matter is going, I will - unless you have anything further you want to put, Mr O'Donnell?
PN10
MR O'DONNELL: No, Commissioner, apart to raise again the issues that - I am not sure that what Mr Burchardt actually has said is a correct representation but I simply make the position of the MEAA known on this.
PN11
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. Well, I think that what Mr Burchardt is saying is that the notification alleges a breach of the award and that that is a subject matter which, in his submission, should give the respondent the right to representation in these proceedings. Now I am not clear until I hear more from you, Mr O'Donnell exactly what is being alleged but for the time being, Mr Burchardt, we will see where this matter is heading and I will grant you leave to appear for those purposes.
PN12
MR BURCHARDT: Thank you, Commissioner.
PN13
THE COMMISSIONER: Mr O'Donnell.
PN14
MR O'DONNELL: If the Commission pleases I would like to hand over to Ms O'Meley for this part, Commissioner.
PN15
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. Ms O'Meley.
PN16
MS O'MELEY: The Media, Entertainment and Arts Alliance notified a dispute pursuant to section 99 of the Workplace Relations Act 1996. The dispute is in relation to Rehame employing staff on sham media contracts that are not in accordance with the Media Monitoring Award 1999. This has led to redundancies within the company and redeployment of staff affecting employment opportunities for Alliance members. The Alliance also anticipates that there will be further redundancies due to technological change.
PN17
The Alliance intends to give an outline about the dispute today. We will be seeking a number of documents and other information from the company, an initial order pursuant to section 170GA(2) which will be supported by arguments about consultation and we will then ask for the Commission's assistance in conciliation in order to progress the matter towards a resolution. The Alliance became aware of the outsourcing problem last year when we were contacted by individuals working for Rehame as media monitors in regional Australia who had had their conditions varied by the company.
PN18
They originally had retainers and earned additional money on top of that. The retainer was taken away, severely reducing the earning potential of these media monitors. In September and October 2003 the company extended its outsourcing to include metropolitan newspapers. Advertisements were carried online at seek.com.au, job ID 2949830, and in suburban newspapers such as Northcote Reader on 8 October 2003, page 27. Commissioner, I have a number of exhibits which I would like to hand up to you because I will be referring to them in order.
PN19
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.
PN20
MS O'MELEY: I am sorry, I don't have the original "seek" advertisement.
PN21
THE COMMISSIONER: Okay. So this first document here, Ms O'Meley, that is a document from the Northcote Leader, is it; the ad for the Northcote Leader?
PN22
MS O'MELEY: That is right.
PN23
THE COMMISSIONER: Okay. Do you want these each marked separately?
PN24
MS O'MELEY: Yes, please.
PN25
PN26
MS O'MELEY: On 15 September 2003 the Alliance wrote to Rehame requesting an urgent meeting about the media contractors. The letter stated that:
PN27
Alliance members are gravely concerned about this development and fear that the proposed arrangement will threaten a large number of jobs in your Melbourne operations.
PN28
PN29
MS O'MELEY: On 23 September I met with Rehame's general manager, Mr David Krug and discussed the issue. This meeting was documented in an internal e-mail to Alliance staff members. I quote from this e-mail:
PN30
Mr Krug says that they are increasing the items they intend to read and need flexibility to do this. He says this won't affect existing staff but he won't make ...(reads)... couldn't reach middle ground on this one.
PN31
PN32
MS O'MELEY: On 1 October 2003 the Alliance wrote to the company about a number of issues including the media contractors. The letter stated that:
PN33
It is the position of the Alliance that external media contractors are in fact employees of the company in accordance with Taxation Office rules. The Alliance ...(reads)... and occupational health and safety requirements.
PN34
PN35
MS O'MELEY: On 2 October 2003 the company responded with:
PN36
Your contention that external media contractors are in fact employees of Rehame is refuted. As I discussed with you at our recent meeting I see no purpose served in providing you with copies of these contracts as I do not believe that a contractor falls within the domain of the Alliance.
PN37
That is on the second page of that letter.
PN38
PN39
MS O'MELEY: The rules of the Media Entertainment and Arts Alliance do cover both employees and contractors within the industry according to section 1.4, Eligibility for Membership Part E, which states:
PN40
PN41
MS O'MELEY: This issue of whether these contractors are in fact employees and the impact that they are having on our members who work in-house is unresolved. This has been further exacerbated by another round of advertisements for Sydney listed on 16 January 2004 carried at seek.com.au, and I don't have the job ID for that one, and for Melbourne listed on 21 January 2004 with a job ID of 3252754.
PN42
THE COMMISSIONER: The advertisement for the positions in Sydney will be MEAA6 and for the position, the advertisement for the position in Melbourne will be MEAA7.
PN43
MS O'MELEY: Excuse me, Commissioner, I think the rules were listed as exhibit 6.
PN44
THE COMMISSIONER: They were so it will be 7 and 8 rather than 6 and 7.
PN45
PN46
MS O'MELEY: The redundancy situation is likely to be exacerbated by the announcement that was made to employees in Sydney on 15 January 2004 that new technology will be introduced that will scan and construct reports of newspaper articles. We have no information about the effect this will have on existing numbers of employees. The Alliance has reason to believe that Rehame is planning to make more than 15 people redundant and is thus non-compliant with section 170GA of the Workplace Relations Act 1996 as it has not notified or consulted the union about the current and proposed redundancies with a view to minimising the impact of the redundancies.
PN47
The Alliance alleges that the company is in breach of clause 9.1.1 of the Media Monitoring Award 1999 which states:
PN48
Redundancy occurs when an employer decides that the employer no longer wishes the job the employee has been doing to be done by anyone and this is not due to the ordinary and customary turnover of labour.
PN49
The Alliance alleges that the company is in breach of the Superannuation Guarantee Administration Act 1992 as they are not making superannuation contributions on behalf of the external media monitors. The Alliance is concerned that the company is not compliant with the Accident Compensation WorkCover Insurance Act 1993 in relation to its insurance arrangements for the external media monitors. The Alliance alleges that the external media monitors are permanent part-time employees rather than contractors who are expected to be available for up to 52 weeks of the year as stated in Rehame's 2003 Electronic Contractor Pack.
PN50
THE COMMISSIONER: This is the last of the documents that you handed up?
PN51
MS O'MELEY: Yes, thank you.
PN52
PN53
MS O'MELEY: As Rehame is respondent to the Media Monitoring Award 1999 the company is in breach of clause 8 employment categories and other provisions of the award such as annual leave, sick leave and so on. The Alliance is seeking information from the company including copies of the regional media monitoring contracts including variations over the past few years; copies of the metropolitan media monitoring contracts including variations over the past year; information about the number of external media monitors broken down by state, city and/or region; information about the proposed number of additional external media monitors that the company intends to employ.
PN54
If this information is not provided by Rehame and the matter progresses we will be issuing a summons for the production of such documents. The Alliance is also seeking an undertaking that should it be necessary for us to call one or more external media monitors as witnesses that the company will ensure that their shifts are covered for the day of hearing. At the outset the Alliance is seeking an order for the company to comply with section 170GA of the Workplace Relations Act 1996 and provide the union with the number of terminations including casual employees and the reasons for them, for example, hire of external media monitors or technological change; the number and categories of employees likely to be affected, including casuals, in each state, city and/or region, and the time when or the period over which the employer intends to carry out the terminations inclusive of any terminations since October 2003.
PN55
The Alliance also seeks an order pursuant to section 170GA(2) that any employees that have been terminated or redeployed due to redundancy this year will have their employment restored until such time as full consultation has taken place and the whole of the dispute has been heard in the Australian Industrial Relations Commission and I have copies of those draft orders here. I would like to close with a number of supporting cases in relation to the redundancies.
PN56
In Liz Harding Betts v The Seven Network Operations case, PR923661, Senior Deputy President Williams referred to statements about consultation made by Commissioner Smith in CPSU, The Community and Public Sector Union v Vodaphone Network Pty Ltd. He says:
PN57
Consultation is not perfunctory advice on what is about to happen. This is a common misconception. Consultation is providing the individual or other ...(reads)... who will be subject to the exercise of that power.
PN58
And I would also like to refer to another case - sorry, the Senior Deputy President also referred to the observation of the Full Bench in Windsor Smith v Liu and Others:
PN59
We add that in ordinary circumstances it is reasonable for an employer who is contemplating redundancies to discuss the matter with the employees ...(reads)... losing their employment to adjust to their affairs accordingly.
PN60
In this case the Senior Deputy President found that the termination of employment had been harsh due to:
PN61
...the respondent's failure to consult with the applicant prior to the termination of her employment and the manner in which it effected the termination.
PN62
As noted previously the union was not given the opportunity to fully consult about how to mitigate the effects of the redundancies. In addition the employer did not give employees the opportunity to respond to the reasons for their selections. In the case of Adam and Ors v Mt Thorley Operations Pty Ltd, PR914896, Deputy President Leary ordered the reinstatement of 82 retrenched workers after it found the employer:
PN63
...did not follow its own guidelines by not allowing employees to respond to the reasons for their selection.
PN64
That is the general outline of the case, Commissioner, and the orders that we are initially seeking and obviously we would like to seek the assistance of the Commission to initially conciliate in the matter but we anticipate that it may come to a hearing. Thank you, Commissioner.
PN65
THE COMMISSIONER: Thanks, Ms O'Meley. Mr Burchardt.
PN66
MR BURCHARDT: Commissioner, a number of these matters take me wholly by surprise. I don't put that in the spirit of criticism but that is just the way it is. There are some very important factual assertions made about which I don't have any instructions at all. Could I ask for 10 minutes so that I can proceed to respond to all of these matters in one go rather than bit by bit?
PN67
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. We will stand this matter down for 10 minutes.
SHORT ADJOURNMENT [4.00pm]
RESUMED [4.13pm]
PN68
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, Mr Burchardt.
PN69
MR BURCHARDT: Thanks for the time, Commissioner. I have had a fairly steep learning curve about this media monitoring business and I am not quite sure how much you know about it but it is what its name applies. You monitor the print and electronic media and you make a business by selling what you monitor to clients.
PN70
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.
PN71
MR BURCHARDT: I should make it clear by way of outset that the company absolutely and categorically denies that any contracts it is entering into with contractors are sham in any way. It further categorically denies that this is in any way some sort of ruse to circumvent any lawful obligations to comply with the relevant award. I should make that express and upfront. Although there has been one contact with the union in Sydney last week the exhibits, I think they are MEAA4 and 5 which is the exchange of correspondence in September and October, are the last my client has relevantly heard from the union before the notification of dispute.
PN72
The company has existed for 20 years or thereabouts and has only been involved in print monitoring for about the last two years. Prior to that it monitored electronic media only. Traditionally it did the monitoring, whether electronic or more recently including print as well, in capital cities and what you might describe as the metropolis, inhouse. It employed direct employees inhouse to do that work. It is fairly mechanical sort of work as you would imagine but equally it has always, in regional Australia, employed sub-contractors. Far more efficient to do it that way.
PN73
It is right that in more recent times, and I am probably talking around about the last eight months, I can't be held to a precise date, Commissioner, the company has been moving gradually to move to independent sub-contractors in the metropolitan areas. It is partly a response to the fact that of course the whole business of media interchange and interface has changed over the last 20 years very dramatically. It is simply not necessary to have everybody sitting in one spot for the dissemination of material and reports because of the e-mail and Internet and the like.
PN74
Second, this company only gets paid by its clients for what it produces. It is in a very competitive market. Its major competitor is understood to have reduced its charge out fees substantially or I should say more accurately significantly in the last few years. Essentially the system that my client is seeking to put in place is one where it pays those people working for it as contractors what they themselves get paid for and experience has shown that that in fact produces a much better result. That is to say the persons concerned produce more and indeed in some but not all instances earn more.
PN75
As you might also expect turnover in this industry is high. Although it at first blush seems hard to credit I am instructed that the average period of employment at the maximum is usually about six to eight months so that the entire workforce, relevantly to this area, I should say, I am not talking about the ongoing full-time administrative sales staff and people like that, I am just talking about the media monitoring people, there is something of a complete turnover or something close to it, subject obviously to the odd exception, on a fairly regular basis.
PN76
No one, contrary to the assertions made by the union, is going to be made redundant today, tomorrow or next week. The matter is not attended by that degree of urgency. I can tell you, I have sought instructions, and those who instruct me, and they think they know, tell me that one person in Melbourne, who was formally an electronic broadcast reporter, his job has been contracted out. He is still, in fact, doing that job and next week will start retraining in some new technology that I will tell you about in a moment. One person was made redundant last week who was a permanent monitor and they have been replaced by a contractor but no one else.
PN77
There are a number of persons involved in print monitoring in Sydney, approximately - we think it is 14, Commissioner. You can always be out one either way, I suppose. Those persons were informed by management - I suspect that the union's assertion as to dates is probably not far off the money - several weeks ago that their jobs might be compromised by the introduction of some new technology and the company's Sydney manager spoke to the union giving them notification of that last Friday as I understand it.
PN78
The company has not made a decision to terminate the employment of 15 or more employees, therefore section 170GA does not apply. I should, however, explain that in addition to the overall, if you like, move towards sub-contracting that I have described, which applies both in electronic and print monitoring which, as I say, has been coming in for some considerable number of months, there has been an - not necessarily interrelated but a contemporaneous development in relation to new technology. Late last year, and I am talking December, the company finally decided to purchase some new technology.
PN79
The precise nature of that technology is commercially sensitive and I prefer not to - I am bound to say I don't understand the technicalities anyway - but I would prefer not to go into any greater detail about it but one of the results that will come from this is that there will be a reduced requirement for persons to monitor in the print monitoring area which, as I have said, has only been part of the company's activities for about the last two years. The 14 employees in Sydney to whom I referred are employees who are presently engaged in that activity.
PN80
The company will be taking every proper step to ensure that any loss of positions is kept to a minimum but cannot guarantee that some redundancies will not occur in that area. Because of the introduction of the new technology a number of functions will be concentrated in Melbourne and the company presently sees that there will be no redundancies in the ultimate in Melbourne at all. Commissioner, complaint has been made to the effect that this company is in breach of obligations under the Superannuation Guarantee Act and under the Accident Compensation Act and in substance it is also accused of being in breach of the award because it is said that these sub-contractors are in truth employees and therefore the award applies and therefore they are being employed in breach of the award.
PN81
All of those assertions are strongly and strenuously denied but even if they were right their resolution would fall to other authorities. Award breaches are dealt with in the Federal Court and there are other authorities who deal with improprieties in relation to superannuation and accident compensation matters but they don't fall for direct consideration, with the greatest of respect, by this Commission. Commissioner, that is what I would say by way of introductory response. There are a number of other matters that have been raised in relation to the provision of documents.
PN82
As yet, of course, you haven't formally made a finding of dispute, although I am not going to suggest I would be resisting such a finding in these circumstances, but what does require further consideration in my respectful submission is where this matter really should be going in the light of the nature of the complaints that were made and what is the most appropriate way to proceed. Certainly we are not in a position to do more than - much more than my telling you what I have told you this afternoon. If there is to be some examination of any of the factual issues that may be controversial then we would need to address how we would deal with that and when but I hope that is of some assistance in explaining where the company is at.
PN83
THE COMMISSIONER: Can I just ask you, Mr Burchardt, this document which I marked as MEAA9 which is the information for metropolitan electronic contractor, is this the basis upon which these people are being engaged?
PN84
MR BURCHARDT: This isn't the contract. It refers to the fact, Will I have a contract? The answer is, yes, but it is not the actual - as I understand it, the document itself. But if you mean is this part of the documentation given to such persons, could I take a moment to just get some instructions on that?
PN85
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.
PN86
MR BURCHARDT: This is a document that one of the prospective independent contractors would be provided.
PN87
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. And what difficulty does the company have in providing the MEAA with a copy - I presume that there is a standard form contract?
PN88
MR BURCHARDT: That is my understanding, yes.
PN89
THE COMMISSIONER: What difficulty does the company have in providing the MEAA with a copy of the standard form contract?
PN90
MR BURCHARDT: I have to confess, Commissioner, we were trying to get on top of a lot of other issues when we were in the - in the adjournment and we didn't start going through the list of documents claimed in any detail because the - I was just trying to respond to all the facts obviously. Commissioner, if it is a matter of providing a copy of the contract and you were to make a recommendation that that be done I imagine it might very well occur.
PN91
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, all right.
PN92
MR BURCHARDT: I would have to seek instructions but we would take careful note of any recommendation made but there does - what I am really trying to outline is both a sort of - an immediate response to the allegations made but also to flag the, not in an obstructive way but just to flag that it is a metamorphose in one sense. Orders have been sought under 170GA. Those would require to be heard and determined if the matter was going to proceed.
PN93
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. Well, I think - as I understand what you say, in relation to the issue of 170GA that the pre-conditions don't exist as far as the company is concerned in that there has been no decision to terminate the employment of 15 or more employees?
PN94
MR BURCHARDT: That is right.
PN95
THE COMMISSIONER: Which is a pre-condition for - - -
PN96
MR BURCHARDT: Pre-condition for exercise of power.
PN97
THE COMMISSIONER: - - - the power to be exercised. You are saying that there is potentially a redundancy situation in Sydney?
PN98
MR BURCHARDT: Yes.
PN99
THE COMMISSIONER: And that the union, through its Sydney office presumably, has been notified of that?
PN100
MR BURCHARDT: That is right, and the employees all individually notified as well.
PN101
THE COMMISSIONER: And the employees have been individually notified, and does the company have any difficulty in having a discussion with those employees and their representative in relation to what possible effects this technology is going to have and if there are going to be 14 redundancies or four, whatever, and how they are going to select them and all of those sorts of things.
PN102
MR BURCHARDT: I understand that, Commissioner.
PN103
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.
PN104
MR BURCHARDT: I should say the company, as I say, has already had discussions with employees and notified the union. I don't have express instructions but I think I could helpfully reply by once again saying if you were to make a recommendation in those terms I am sure it would be taken very seriously.
PN105
THE COMMISSIONER: All right, then. Thanks, Mr Burchardt.
PN106
MR BURCHARDT: The real difficulty I have got is that if this is all about award breach and all that sort of thing it has got to happen in a more structured way and probably somewhere else but if we can help in the meantime - - -
PN107
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, if there is, you know, if there is an issue - if there is a substantial issue in relation to breach of the award then that is a matter which obviously requires proceedings somewhere else. I think at the moment basically, as I understand it, certainly the union's interest at least initially is in being consulted about what is going on and to seek to represent people whether they be employees or contractors and to, I suppose, have them - I won't take it any further than that at the moment but it seems to me that there are at least those issues that have been raised.
PN108
MR BURCHARDT: The matter of persons who may be made redundant is, if I could put it in these terms, Commissioner, self-evidently something that in good, ordinary, industrial practice would require discussions of the sort that you outlined.
PN109
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.
PN110
MR BURCHARDT: There may or may not be issues as to whether independent contractors properly so described should or shouldn't be represented by the MEAA. It is a matter ultimately for the independent contractors and the union I should think but - - -
PN111
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, yes, I understand that, obviously.
PN112
MR BURCHARDT: I think what I am doing in an endeavour to assist, Commissioner, is indicate that if you were to recommend that a copy of it, subject to any confidentiality issues or the like - - -
PN113
THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.
PN114
MR BURCHARDT: A copy of the standard contract be made available and discussions take place. It is improbable that those would fall on totally deaf ears.
PN115
THE COMMISSIONER: All right, then. Thanks, Mr Burchardt. Ms O'Meley.
PN116
MS O'MELEY: Thank you, Commissioner. I would just like to draw your attention to the fact that there have been a number of variations of these contracts so we would be seeking each of the variations. Also I would like to raise - - -
PN117
THE COMMISSIONER: Can I ask why?
PN118
MS O'MELEY: Why? Because some of the terms in the contracts have changed. The most recent contracts, as I understand it, have included an explicit statement claiming that the contractor is not an employee whereas earlier ones didn't have that statement as far as I know so I would like to see whether that statement is in those earlier contracts. Also I would like to raise the concern that with the outsourcing of some of the monitoring functions that a number of the inhouse monitoring of radio broadcasts, for example, is not being done any more and as people are leaving the company they are simply not being replaced. So there is a, as far as we can tell, a long term strategy to outsource quite a - - -
PN119
THE COMMISSIONER: I think that is exactly what Mr Burchardt said.
PN120
MS O'MELEY: Yes.
PN121
THE COMMISSIONER: That that was the company's strategy. Now the question is how that becomes the matter of an industrial dispute and what precisely the union says the Commission can do about it. Now I mean there are a number - I think there are a number of issues here and there are a number of unknowns.
PN122
MS O'MELEY: Yes.
PN123
THE COMMISSIONER: I accept the fact that the union, under its rules, has the capacity to represent people who are employed or engaged as contractors and that it has that right and that capacity to do so. There may be certain circumstances, but it is not clear to me at this point in time, where a company may engage contractors in order to circumvent the provisions of the award but it is not clear - unless you are saying that there is a general requirement that a company cannot make a decision that as employees leave instead of replacing them they are going to use people who are contractors then I don't know where that issue arises.
PN124
There may well be an issue that under other circumstances a court may find those contractors to be employees and not to be genuine independent contractors and that may well depend on the terms under which they are employed and various factors about the relationship between them and the principal but I am just not quite clear, in the absence of there being something before me to indicate that the company has made a decision to terminate 15 or more employees I am just not quite sure what it is that the union is asking the Commission to do.
PN125
I am certainly prepared to make recommendations that would facilitate some discussion between the parties and I am certainly prepared to make recommendations that you have access to a copy of the standard form contract that the company is using but beyond those I am just not quite sure what you are saying or what you are asking the Commission to do or what you are saying that the Commission can do in these circumstances.
PN126
MS O'MELEY: Initially, Commissioner, we were seeking exactly what you have just said, to gain access to some documents and to be consulted about possible redundancies but we have a grave concern for those contractors and the conditions that they are working under and that is really the substance of the dispute, that we are saying that they are employees and that they should have the benefit of the industrial instrument that the inhouse employees have.
PN127
THE COMMISSIONER: As I said to you you have the right to represent those people in discussions with the employer but your hypothesis would have to be established - - -
PN128
MS O'MELEY: That is right, Commissioner.
PN129
THE COMMISSIONER: - - - that they are - these people are in fact employees and I don't know that this is the venue for you to establish that because you have to be seeking something from the Commission that is within the Commission's power to grant.
PN130
MS O'MELEY: Initially, as I said, we were just seeking to go off the record for the moment and open up discussions with your assistance please, Commissioner.
PN131
THE COMMISSIONER: Okay. Mr Burchardt?
PN132
MR BURCHARDT: I have got no objection to proceeding into conference, Commissioner.
PN133
THE COMMISSIONER: All right, then. We will go into conference at this stage then, thank you.
NO FURTHER PROCEEDINGS RECORDED
INDEX
LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs |
EXHIBIT #MEAA1 ADVERTISEMENT FROM NORTHCOTE LEADER FROM OCTOBER 2003 PN26
EXHIBIT #MEAA2 LETTER DATED 15/09/2003 PN29
EXHIBIT #MEAA3 E-MAIL DATED 23/09/2003 PN32
EXHIBIT #MEAA4 LETTER DATED 01/10/2003 PN35
EXHIBIT #MEAA5 LETTER DATED 02/10/2003 PN39
EXHIBIT #MEAA6 EXTRACT FROM THE RULES PN41
EXHIBIT #MEAA7 ADVERTISEMENT FOR THE POSITIONS IN SYDNEY PN46
EXHIBIT #MEAA8 ADVERTISEMENT FOR THE POSITIONS IN MELBOURNE PN46
EXHIBIT #MEAA9 REHAME'S 2003 ELECTRONIC CONTRACTOR PACK PN53
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