C2003/5669, Transcript of Proceedings [2004] AIRCTrans 711 (24 February 2004)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N 6099

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER SMITH

C2003/5669

COMMUNICATIONS, ELECTRICAL,
ELECTRONIC, ENERGY,
INFORMATION, POSTAL, PLUMBING
AND ALLIED SERVICES UNION OF
AUSTRALIA - COMMUNICATION
DIVISION

and

TELSTRA CORPORATION

Notification pursuant to section 99 of the
Act of a dispute re Telstra's intention to
replace 12 hour shifts with 8 hour shifts
at their Clayton operations centre

MELBOURNE

9.33 AM, WEDNESDAY, 11 FEBRUARY 2004

Continued from 8.12.03

PN65

THE COMMISSIONER: Any change in appearances.

PN66

MS J. BORNSTEIN: I seek leave to appear for the CEPU.

PN67

MR T. HAROLD: I appear on behalf of Telstra with MR D. BRAJEVIC and MS B. BRUNT.

PN68

THE COMMISSIONER: Any objection to the application for leave, Mr Harold?

PN69

MR HAROLD: No, Commissioner.

PN70

THE COMMISSIONER: Leave is granted. Now, Ms Bornstein.

PN71

MS BORNSTEIN: Commissioner, the CEPU has made application for this directions hearing on the basis that matters have arisen during the course of the case that indicate that we have not been able to comply with directions in relation to the filing and serving of all our material. In those circumstances we are seeking further directions from the Commission to establish a new timetable and also to permit the parties - or the union and Telstra to file witness statements of the evidence upon which the parties will rely prior to the hearing. Having now been briefed in this matter it appears to me that it raises issues that perhaps may be a little more complex than was first anticipated.

PN72

There also will be a reasonably significant number of witnesses and in my submission it would assist the expeditious hearing of this matter if witness statements were filed which would go to the substance of the evidence of each.

PN73

THE COMMISSIONER: Did you have in mind what time frame you were looking at?

PN74

MR BORNSTEIN: There is some pressure from the members of the union who have a particular concern about this, so from the union's perspective I would be suggesting that the statements be filed and served in three weeks. It also raises the question of the dates that have been listed and the application would be, subject to the views of the Commission, that those dates be vacated.

PN75

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN76

MR BORNSTEIN: In my submission the matter may take longer than the three days for which it was listed and five days may be a safer estimate.

PN77

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. Right, thank you. Mr Harold.

PN78

MR HAROLD: Commissioner, Telstra does not oppose the CEPUs request but, nevertheless, we do have some concerns about it. We are in the Commission's hands in respect of the next steps in this matter. If the Commission does intend to relist the matter in line with the CEPUs request, we ask that you bear in mind that a negative impact of not proceeding with this matter as planned, is the ongoing difficulty in managing the expectation of some of the shift staff at the Global Operations Centre.

PN79

There currently is a level of uncertainty in some quarters, along with a view in others of the clear expectation that a final decision on this matter will be handed down on 24 February. In the most recent hearing the parties were asked to provide - - -

PN80

THE COMMISSIONER: Who expected that.

PN81

MR HAROLD: The view that we have is that some of the staff at the centre are - - -

PN82

THE COMMISSIONER: I see, were expecting a decision on the 24th.

PN83

MR HAROLD: Clearly, yes.

PN84

THE COMMISSIONER: I don't think I have ever given anybody a decision date. It normally creates more problems than it solves if you try and do that.

PN85

MR HAROLD: In the most recent hearing on this matter the parties were asked to provide an outline of their submissions.

PN86

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN87

MR HAROLD: And given that the matter now seems to be increasing in magnitude we request that the CEPU does provide further details to enable us to understand the case that we are required to answer and specifically we are looking at some detailed witness statements, numbers of witnesses to be called, what are their expert witnesses or other, why the changes occurred and particularly a more fulsome outline of their submission.

PN88

THE COMMISSIONER: And how long would you want after having received that? I think Ms Bornstein said three weeks from today which brings it to about 5 March.

PN89

MR HAROLD: We would seek at least another three week period from that time.

PN90

THE COMMISSIONER: 26 March. We will go off the record briefly.

OFF THE RECORD

PN91

THE COMMISSIONER: This matter was previously listed 19, 20, 21 of this month. Those dates are now vacated. It will now be relisted on 12, 13, 14 May and 20, 21. The program now is the CEPU is to serve and file any additional materials it wishes, outlines of submission and witness evidence by 5 March and Telstra is to file and serve its responses by 26 March and we will deal with any replies and final submissions during the hearings. Right. Thank you for your - it is all in Melbourne, isn't it? Yes. Very well, it will be in Melbourne. The matter is adjourned till those dates.

ADJOURNED UNTIL WEDNESDAY, 12 MAY 2004 [9.46am]