C2004/4956, Transcript of Proceedings [2005] AIRCTrans 1079 (6 May 2005)

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS


O/N 8557

AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL

RELATIONS COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER SMITH

C2004/4956

MEDIA, ENTERTAINMENT
AND ARTS ALLIANCE

and

AUSTRALIAN BROADCASTING
CORPORATION

Notification pursuant to section 99 of the Act
of a dispute re issues in relation to the
alleged removal of an employee with no valid
reason and the alleged failure to deal adequately
with a grievance lodged by the same employee

MELBOURNE

2.35 PM, MONDAY, 26 JULY 2004

PN1

MR P. O'DONNELL: I represent the MEAA and I am accompanied by MS N. BARAKAT, who is named in the application.

PN2

MR D. SMITH: I appear for the ABC. With me is MS K. MARSHALL.

PN3

THE COMMISSIONER: Thanks, Mr Smith. Mr O'Donnell.

PN4

MR O'DONNELL: Thank you, Commissioner. This is a matter which I think I should first make a correction, and I apologise to the Commission for this. In the notification I actually refer to living matters. At the time that I was doing this document for the Commission I was also trying to deal with a matter at one of our other workplaces where living matters is a section that is going to be incorporated into a publication, and it should have been "inside business", and not "living matters". So, if I could have that corrected in the notification, it doesn't have any impact on today's matters except that it is obviously incorrect.

PN5

Before starting, too, Commissioner, I would like to address another component of this which was a letter which was sent to Vice President Lawler of this Commission from Mr Don Smith, and I need to actually talk to that in some ways. I am not sure whether you have got a copy.

PN6

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, I have, thank you.

PN7

MR O'DONNELL: But I would like to just run through it. My idea in addressing you on this matter is not meant as any disrespect to the head of the panel, but simply, the advice that I had been given at the time I rang the Registry was that this matter had at that time been allocated to you, and it seemed that the appropriate person to address the letter to was to you in that capacity, knowing that you would be dealing with the matter. So if I could simply place on record that there was no intention of disrespect to Vice President Lawler or this Commission in any way, it was simply that it seemed the most appropriate concern for a speedy hearing through to the Commission.

PN8

The matter itself concerns the actions of the ABC in how they deal with - or have dealt with one of their employees, Ms Barakat. Ms Barakat was the Executive Producer of Inside Business, and in the hierarchy of the ABC that is a reasonably senior position. I would like to present to the Commission a copy of the flow chart of responsibilities within News and Current Affairs at the ABC if I could, please. And I simply do this, Commissioner, inasmuch as if you look at the Current Affairs lines there, or line of responsibility and the hierarchy or structure of the hierarchy, you will see that there is a position there, EP Inside Business, with Ms Barakat's name alongside it, and the reporting line for Ms Barakat would be up to Mr Walter Hamilton, and presumably beyond Mr Walter Hamilton to Mr John Cameron.

PN9

The internal reporting lines within Inside Business would be for producers, reporters, etcetera, to report to Ms Barakat. That would be the line, and I understand that that would be the normal line of responsibility in all those other areas where the executive producer is the senior staff member within that internal organisation for the particular program, and beneath him or her would come the other people within the unit. And so that is quite important that you look at it in that line because there is a subsequent hierarchy within each of those units.

PN10

What the ABC did, and without any real offering of fairness of Ms Neheda Barakat, the person who enjoys the position as head of national coverage, Mr Walter Hamilton, simply had a meeting with Ms Barakat, said he had no confidence in her, without demonstrating what that lack of confidence was, and was intending to remove her from that position as Executive Producer of Inside Business and move her to a role as simply a producer on the 7.30 Report. In the progress of Ms Barakat through the hierarchy of the ABC Ms Barakat has already worked in that role and advanced significantly to the role of executive producer.

PN11

If there were performance issues there are processes within the ABC agreement about how those should be dealt with. There clearly were not, because there is no documentation, there is no history of concerns that would warrant such a demotion, and in the end of the process that is what this is; this is seriously a demotion. Now, whilst Mr Hamilton went to some pains to assure Ms Barakat that her salary would remain the same, there is more than salary that identifies the value of these positions, and the status of one position over the other is what we are here about today.

PN12

And it is arising from that process Ms Barakat made a - the process of recording personal grievances against three staff members. They are Mr Hamilton, Mr Bass, and Mr Nichols. Our concern is the tardiness of ABC management in dealing with those three grievance complaints. There is a requirement on the ABC to deal with complaints in a timely manner, and in this case that simply didn't happen. They sought to manage it the best way that - I think for the ABC, rather than Ms Barakat. That is basically, Commissioner, the substance of our notification to this Commission today. We would be seeking at a later stage to present witnesses to this process, but certainly not in today's hearing. Thank you.

PN13

THE COMMISSIONER: What do you want from today?

PN14

MR O'DONNELL: I would be happy to use the opportunity to discuss this with ABC management, frankly.

PN15

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thanks. Mr Smith.

PN16

MR SMITH: Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner, just going through some of what Mr O'Donnell has raised, I would take issue with his claim firstly that Walter Hamilton has simply removed Ms Barakat from the position. He has done no such thing at this point. The issue arose as a result of Ms Barakat actually leaving her job, leaving the workplace, I mean, I am sorry. Mr Hamilton then - that was I think on 1 April. Mr Hamilton then sought to discuss what the issues of concern were with Ms Barakat, and in that process put forward an offer of another alternative role pending final resolution.

PN17

I think at this point that is the stage that it is at. Ms Barakat has not been formally removed or transferred or any other action taken. With respect to Mr O'Donnell's claim regarding the personal grievance, and he expressed concern at the tardiness of the ABC in dealing with this in a timely manner, I would simply make two points about that. Firstly, that is not the case, that indeed at the point that Ms Barakat raised her concerns, her grievance, and I think that would have been 15 June when she put in a formal written grievance, there have been numerous conversations between Ms Barakat and the ABC, particularly the ABCs HR department here in Melbourne during that time.

PN18

I would make a point that Mr O'Donnell through his actions has in fact been quite obstructionist to the proper processing of these grievance matters, and that is simply something that I would be seeking to take up with Mr O'Donnell, but it would be the ABCs intention that the due processes provided by the employment agreement to which the MEA is in fact a signatory, that those processes be followed, which is exactly what the ABC has been seeking to do. On that basis, Commissioner, I think at this point it may be useful if we were to perhaps adjourn into conference and talk through the issues.

PN19

THE COMMISSIONER: Thanks, Mr Smith. Very well. I will adjourn the matter into conference.

NO FURTHER PROCEEDINGS RECORDED