C1999/178, Transcript of Proceedings [2005] AIRCTrans 1264 (8 June 2005)

1800 534 258

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

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Workplace Relations Act 1996 11671-1

SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT DUNCAN

C1999/178

Item 51 - Part 2 Schedule 5, WROLA Act 1996
(C1999/178)

SYDNEY

9.07AM, WEDNESDAY, 25 MAY 2005

Continued from 24/3/2005

THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE CONDUCTED VIA VIDEO CONFERENCE AND RECORDED IN SYDNEY

PN21

MR R THOMAS: I appear on behalf of the NTEU.

PN22

MR M PERICA: I appear on behalf of the CPSU.

PN23

MR A McCALLUM: I appear on behalf of the CEPU.

PN24

MR K CAMERON: I appear on behalf of AHEIA.

PN25

MR M BOWN: I am from the University of Melbourne.

PN26

MR G CRONDELL: I am from Monash University.

PN27

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, what is the position? Mr Cameron?

PN28

MR CAMERON: I was trying to keep a low profile today.

PN29

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I had noticed that.

PN30

MR CAMERON: The position is this. I think on the last occasion we suggested there was really only one part of the award which needed some work to be done on it which was the bit that related to the construction unions. We undertook at that stage that we would have that done by today and a draft given to the unions so that they could respond. I must admit that my colleague, Mr Crondell, from Monash University undertook to do his part and has done so. Mr Bown from Melbourne University is about halfway through his part and I have got to tell you, your Honour, I haven't started my bit. And the only weak excuse I can have for that is the Federal Government has made life fairly interesting in the Higher Education Sector since 29 April when they announced that certain requirements needed to be met for universities to receive future government funding or some extra government funding.

PN31

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: What makes me think I have heard this before?

PN32

MR CAMERON: Probably the HEGSS matter, your Honour. Everyone is saying the same thing. It's the prelude, your Honour, before we say anything these days.

PN33

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I think I could say it for you, Mr Cameron.

PN34

MR CAMERON: I am sure you could, your Honour, and I certainly do know that my colleague, Mr Wedgwood spoke at some length in the HEGSS matters about this. Unfortunately, I am in the same position in Victoria. I don't know how much you know about what the government requires but I have got - - -

PN35

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, not in any, how should I say, useful or record fashion. So I think if you were intending to give me that I would be interested.

PN36

MR CAMERON: I wasn't intending to go into enormous details as I was just telling people here, most of my colleagues are in Canberra today to meet with the government to try and get a further clarification on what it is that is exactly required from the government.

PN37

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, that's the kind of thing I do need on the record, yes.

PN38

MR CAMERON: Yes. But in a nutshell, the government has indicated that the higher education providers need to achieve certain objectives by certain times to receive some funding from the government. Now, one of those deadlines is that people who don't have a, if you like, a recent certified agreement need to have finalise their agreement by September of this year and a lot of those agreements are required to contain certain provisions which, in some respects, are going to be probably offensive to the NTEU and the CPSU and others. So it's going to be a fairly difficult task for those universities. And my two friends from Melbourne University and Monash University are in a little bit of a better position because they have agreements so they have until September 2006 to achieve what they need to achieve. My members in Victoria, six of them have to achieve what they have to achieve by September of this year which isn't a lot of time given that at this point in time we are still unsure of exactly what is going to be acceptable and what isn't going to be acceptable to the government.

PN39

So there is a lot of work to be done and a lot of time needs to be devoted to trying to achieve those goals. And that would be my reason for suggesting that, I guess, in the scheme of things, the simplification of HEUV doesn't rate that highly amongst my members at the moment, especially in comparison to an issue where it involved getting money from the government. So I don't know if I can really go into much more detail than that at this stage, your Honour.

PN40

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, Mr Cameron, I accept that.

PN41

MR CAMERON: If you have got any questions I am happy to try and answer them though, but I really don't have much more to say at this point in time, except that we are not that far away from doing what we wanted to do by today and I guess when spare moments do arise, it is certainly something that is in the mind of certainly us at the employer's side, because we are in regular contact with each other to talk about it. So all we can do is keep plugging along.

PN42

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. I have something in mind but before I announce it I will hear from the unions and again, just for any sort of convenience I will start with you, Mr Thomas.

PN43

MR THOMAS: Thank you, your Honour. As has already been recorded in this matter, the NTEU and the CPSU have in conjunction with the employers, achieved most of the simplification to our relevant awards and schedules although there is still some tidying up to do.

PN44

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, thanks, Mr Thomas.

PN45

MR THOMAS: And the only other question I have that may have relevance to you, your Honour, whilst Mr Cameron has highlighted the issues in relation to enterprise bargaining and obviously the government's intention to legislate the NTEU out of existence is again now the mooted reduction of allowable matters yet again and whether or not the reduction of the allowable matters under the Act, whether or not that will have not an extra effect upon this matter. Will we have to review the work that we have already done to possibly excise more non allowable issues.

PN46

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, I am conscious of that as being something that some kind of provision will have to be made for. Is that all you wish to say, Mr Thomas?

PN47

MR THOMAS: Yes.

PN48

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Mr Perica?

PN49

MR PERICA: Your Honour, if I can just reiterate, I think we are all in the Higher Ed Sector and otherwise and TAFE and everything and generally in the same boat as far as trying to anticipate what has been happening. I have been going around the countryside doing power point presentations on things that are uncertain so that we are all in the same boat as far as having to deal and predict what is going to happen in July, after, on or after July. I can only support the process and if we need some further time to finish the trade stream then I am all for it.

PN50

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Mr McCallum?

PN51

MR McCALLUM: Yes. Nothing has changed with us since our last hearing, your Honour, and I guess we are just waiting on those documents to be forwarded to the CFMEU and others to have their arrangements tied up.

PN52

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Well, look, what I propose to do is this. I think in short it amounts to something pretty similar to what I have done in HEGSS but in this matter, having heard the parties today, I appreciate that some at least will be under pressure to produce agreements. And as with HEGSS I accept that that will tend to push this particular matter down in the order of priority. There is also to be taken into account the fact that has been noted by some of the speakers this morning that what has to be done by way of simplification may alter. Given that, and given the size of the task that has always existed in this particular award, I intend to stand the matter over generally. I reserve liberty to any of the parties to apply to have it re-listed. Naturally, that would probably be when all parties have some greater awareness of what may change. I also reserve to the Commission, which is unnecessary to say but I say it just the same for the record, the capacity to call the matter on at short notice if for reasons which become apparent to the Commission, that course is desirable.

PN53

I remark that a lot of work has been done in this matter. It has not been a simple one and the parties who have participated through individual representatives are to be congratulated on what they have achieved. It will be something of a pity if, I suppose from the technical point of view, if we are not able to complete it. But it won't be the first time that legislation has brought about a change in what has to be done, no doubt it won't be the last either. So with that I formally stand the matter over generally with liberty to apply. Good morning.

<ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [9.19AM]