C2000/22848, Transcript of Proceedings [2005] AIRCTrans 1581 (21 July 2005)

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

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Workplace Relations Act 1996 12196-1

SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT DRAKE

C2000/22848

CPSU, THE COMMUNITY AND PUBLIC SECTOR UNION
AND
AUSTRALIAN HEARING
s.99 - Notification of an industrial dispute
(C2000/22848)

SYDNEY

3.05PM, TUESDAY, 12 JULY 2005.

Hearing continuing

PN1

MS J FRAUMANO: I seek leave to appear for Australian Hearing, with me is MR B McKENNA from Australian Hearing.

PN2

MS K FLAVELL: I'm from the Professional Officers' Association of Victoria.

PN3

MR P FELTHAM: I appear for the Community and Public Sector Union.

PN4

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: We haven't resolved our differences - Ms Fraumano and Mr Feltham - no? So what is the issue - two sentences would be good. I don't want the merits of the argument either way - just what is it?

PN5

MR FELTHAM: We've had two meetings between the unions and the Australian Hearing since last appearing before you. We believe there are two outstanding threshold matters. The first of those is the rates of allowances as they appear in the draft award and the union's view that those ought to be the current rates of allowances. The second issue is the reincorporation of leave loading into the award, which was taken out in one of the previous draft versions. There is disagreement between the parties as to its relevance. There are a number of other minor matters, your Honour, but they would probably be the two that would be the most significant for the threshold issues.

PN6

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The union wants it reinserted and in relation to the rates for allowances the union's position is that they should be the present rates?

PN7

MR FELTHAM: The current rates as they apply within the APS Award 1998 as varied or the current rates that the Department of Employment and Workplace Relations provides public sector agencies in regard to things like travel allowance, disturbance allowance.

PN8

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Ms Fraumano, is that an accurate representation of the two issues?

PN9

MS FRAUMANO: Until this morning, I was in hoped that we'd resolved all of the issues but in the last three hours, these three issues have come up. I must say it's strange hearing - - -

PN10

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: There's two only that I heard.

PN11

MS FRAUMANO: There were three put to us on the email in fact, your Honour. I think the last one was an insignificant one to do with the numbering. But I would suggest to you, the numbering of the document would need to be
re-checked on finalisation in any event. Australian Hearing, only in the last three hours, has become aware of these differences and hasn't had the opportunity to check them. There was an agreement in the previous meetings that the annual leave loading was incorporated into the rates. Mr Whitehead, who was present at the meeting, recalled the history of that and put that position and there was an agreement reached.

PN12

That's been changed this morning. So, we haven't had the opportunity to revisit the rates and see whether that's a matter of fact or not.

PN13

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: You can have that conversation this afternoon, can you not?

PN14

MS FRAUMANO: Your Honour, we would need to look into the history, particularly of the leaving loading. Mr Whitehead indicated in the meetings that he recalled a number of correspondence and other matters. As he indicated, he recalled them, we had an agreed position. We actually didn't dig into the archives to find them. I'd suggest that we could check them certainly this week but we would need to go into the archives at Australian Hearing to assure ourselves of what the history was of that matter.

PN15

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It seems to me that you need to do that. To have a further report back and then a hearing date, if you can't resolve these matters. It's too old. I'll list this matter subject to your availability for 9 August for a report back.

PN16

MR FELTHAM: 9 August, your Honour.

PN17

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: 12 September for hearing. Is that too far away?

PN18

MS FRAUMANO: No, your Honour, that's fine with me. Is there a time as yet or yet to be advised for 9 August?

PN19

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Eleven, I have a matter at 10. We'll make it 11 on the 9th and 10 on the 12th. Although, it's very disappointing this matter can't be resolved. I think that every effort ought to be made to resolve it before those dates. I don't think that it matters whether there's likely to be much evidence. It would be submissions wouldn't it?

PN20

MR FELTHAM: I would have thought so, your Honour.

PN21

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Just submissions? You can, if you like, reduce them to writing before hand or not. It's a matter for you. You might find it easier and then address me on the written submissions but you can discuss that between yourselves. I don't think it's necessary for me to issue directions about it one way or the other. If you need any further orders or directions you can come back to me otherwise the report back is 11am on 9 August and for hearing at 10 o'clock on 12 September. Is there any other matter? As I'll be hearing the matter I won't go into conference about it but if you think the assistance of a member of the panel in conference would be of assistance then I can always seek some input from another member of the panel.

<ADJOURNED UNTIL TUESDAY 9 AUGUST 2005 [3.13PM]