C2005/346, Transcript of Proceedings [2005] AIRCTrans 1838 (7 September 2005)

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

---

Workplace Relations Act 1996 12605-1

COMMISSIONER GRAINGER

C2005/346

AIRSERVICES AUSTRALIA
AND
CIVIL AIR OPERATIONS OFFICERS’ ASSOCIATION OF AUSTRALIA, THE
s.127(2) - Appln to stop or prevent industrial action
(C2005/346)

MELBOURNE

9.39AM, THURSDAY, 25 AUGUST 2005

Continued from 24/8/2005

PN1

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, Mr Jacobs.

PN2

MR McGUANE: Commissioner, perhaps if I may open.

PN3

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, Mr McGuane. I am hoping you're going to open and tell me we're not going to be here for a long time this morning.

PN4

MR McGUANE: I would anticipate that might be the case, Commissioner. Following on from yesterday's proceedings I took the opportunity to take further instructions last evening and we actually convened a contact with our national executive, the governing body of the organisation. We have formally rescinded the resolution carried on 11 August and what I propose to do is we have drafted a form of advice to circulate to members on the same basis as the circulation of 11 August took place and the intention would be to circulate that today. I might just take the opportunity to read from the draft as to specifically the content reflecting the resolution.

PN5

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. I'm happy for you to do that but I'm just wondering whether it's also possible for us to get a photocopy of it, Mr McGuane.

PN6

MR McGUANE: It's very much in draft form at the moment. It's very brief.

PN7

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, that's fine, you go right ahead.

PN8

MR McGUANE: I will certainly provide that to the Commission today.

PN9

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN10

MR McGUANE: It reads:

PN11

On Thursday, 11 August, Civil Air Flash 10/05 directing members to not participate in AUSOTS during upgrades. The intent of this directive was to confirm Airservices position identified in AUSOTS training delivered in Brisbane that AUSOTS flex tracking would not proceed during scheduled Euro Cat upgrades. The motion was not intended to prevent flex tracking on the day of upgrades, merely that the two should not occur at the same time. This was due to concerns over a reduction in system alerts, processing and tools during periods of systems outages concurrent with a significant increase in controller workload. It was not deemed acceptable to expose members to the additional pressures of increased traffic densities on non standard routes in non radar airspace. Since the issue of the flash a number of productive discussions have been held between Civil Air and Airservices resulting in a written statement signed by the head air traffic controller and dated 18 August. It is reproduced verbatim below:

PN12

"To confirm the pre-existing position of Airservices Australia regarding the possible of TAAATS data or software upgrades overlapping with a flex track validity period the following procedures will apply. In the event of a plant TAAATS software upgrade the AUSOTS track master will ensure that the flex tracks between Singapore and the Australian eastern coast destinations will utilise or are aligned with the existing fixed route segments. In the event of a planned data upgrade where the risk assessment is that flex track operations need to be modified for safety reasons the AUSOTS track master will be used to derive the best outcome the flex tracks may utilise or be aligned with existing fixed route segments. These procedures will be reviewed in the context of further operational experience and subject to the normal safety management and consultative processes."

PN13

It goes on to specifically refer to the fact that -

PN14

The motion due to safety concerns Civil Air directs members of flex tracking under the AUSOTS program not being accepted during periods of system outage or upgrades as published in Flash 10/05 is formally rescinded.

PN15

End of statement.

PN16

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, thank you. Mr McGuane, can I just ask you before I ask Mr Jacobs to address me, where does 12 August issue stand from your organisation's point of view?

PN17

MR McGUANE: I was of the understanding from the proceedings yesterday that further discussions between the parties would continue and we're happy to make those arrangements.

PN18

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, all right.

PN19

MR McGUANE: If the Commission pleases.

PN20

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much, Mr McGuane. Yes, Mr Jacobs.

PN21

MR JACOBS: If the Commission pleases. Commissioner, in respect of the withdrawal recision of the notice we're entirely satisfied with that position and we're grateful to my friend for obtaining those instructions. Commissioner, it's not necessary for us to press the application and we don't.

PN22

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. What do you wish the status of the application to be at this stage, Mr Jacobs?

PN23

MR JACOBS: Well, Commissioner, can I say this, that in respect of the
11 August notice which was caught up in the application - - -

PN24

THE COMMISSIONER: And which was the primary matter of concern.

PN25

MR JACOBS: Indeed, Commissioner. Just a moment, Commissioner. Commissioner, given that the 12 August issue was caught up in the application perhaps it can just be adjourned sine die.

PN26

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN27

MR JACOBS: Can I say this, I agree with my friend in respect of the 12 August issue and we're content to have discussions at an appropriate time about that matter and - - -

PN28

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Jacobs, why don't I make the suggestion that the matter be adjourned, since it's only one application that happens to relate to issues, why don't I adjourn the matter sine die today but in the expectation that any further - I mean, (a), the expectation that what Mr McGuane has read is actually going to be issued to the members today - - -

PN29

MR JACOBS: Commissioner, I'm sorry to interrupt, just on that you have reminded me of something I ought to have put to you. My friend I think is prepared to indicate that given the recision of the notice confirmation of that position will go out in writing today and perhaps if I could just shortly, if he wouldn't mind confirming that, I would again be grateful for that.

PN30

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN31

MR JACOBS: Now, sorry, Commissioner, I interrupted you.

PN32

THE COMMISSIONER: And then that discussions with regard to 12 August issue take place during next week and with the intention that the Commission be notified hopefully in seven days time that the application is withdrawn.

PN33

MR JACOBS: Yes.

PN34

THE COMMISSIONER: I mean you know what happens to - I mean a 127 application that's three months old has not got much currency. So think the sooner it's able to be performed the better, but equally I understand that you want to reserve your position until you're sure the matters have been attended satisfactorily.

PN35

MR JACOBS: I am entirely content with that position, Commissioner.

PN36

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, all right.

PN37

MR JACOBS: If the Commission pleases.

PN38

THE COMMISSIONER: So you're wanting Mr McGuane just to confirm - - -

PN39

MR JACOBS: If he would just do that then we will be doubly content.

PN40

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, thank you.

PN41

MR McGUANE: Certainly I'm able to confirm that is the case, Commissioner.

PN42

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, certainly. Would you aim to have it out by what time, Mr McGuane?

PN43

MR McGUANE: 1 o'clock.

PN44

THE COMMISSIONER: And are you happy with what has been suggested with regard to the adjournment of the application?

PN45

MR McGUANE: Yes.

PN46

THE COMMISSIONER: Because I would like that 12 August matter just to be tidied up and rather than leave you all with the thought that you can talk any time in the next year.

PN47

MR McGUANE: Yes, Commissioner.

PN48

THE COMMISSIONER: Maybe if you aim to talk and resolve it in the next week that would be good.

PN49

MR McGUANE: I would suggest that we'd make arrangements for discussions with the office of the head air traffic controller in the next seven days.

PN50

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, all right. Well, I think you have got the relevant person to make those arrangements so perhaps you do that when I have adjourned.

PN51

MR McGUANE: Thank you.

PN52

THE COMMISSIONER: Good. On that basis we will adjourn and I do thank the parties most sincerely for their work in moving the matter to a satisfactory conclusion. I realise there's very important public and safety issues involved and issues that are of great concern both to the applicant but also to Mr McGuane's members, so it's very pleasing that you have been able to make the progress that you have made. Good, I now adjourn.

<ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [9.48AM]