C2005/2804, Transcript of Proceedings [2005] AIRCTrans 1872 (9 September 2005)

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

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Workplace Relations Act 1996 12706-1

COMMISSIONER CARGILL

C2005/2804

APPLICATION BY AUTOMOTIVE, FOOD, METALS, ENGINEERING, PRINTING AND KINDRED INDUSTRIES UNION
s.113 - Application to vary an Award
(C2005/2804)

SYDNEY

2.31PM, TUESDAY, 10 MAY 2005

THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE CONDUCTED VIA VIDEO CONFERENCE AND RECORDED IN SYDNEY

PN1

THE COMMISSIONER: Could I have appearances in Sydney please.

PN2

MS L BOOTH: I am from the AMWU. Again I am appearing with my colleague MR P BAUER in Adelaide.

PN3

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Ms Booth. If I could also now have appearances in Melbourne please.

PN4

MR M BUTLER: I am for the Association of Professional Engineers, Scientists and Managers Australia.

PN5

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Butler and in Adelaide?

PN6

MR M SHEEHAN: I appear on behalf of members of Business SA who are respondents of this Federal award. If it please the Commission. Thank you.

PN7

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Sheehan. And in Perth?

PN8

MR M O'CONNOR: I am from CCIWA and I am representing the Fugro organisation.

PN9

THE COMMISSIONER: This is in relation to the application to vary?

PN10

MR O'CONNOR: Yes, 6742 and 2804.

PN11

THE COMMISSIONER: We have already dealt with 6742 Mr O'Connor. We have had correspondence from Mr Moss from your organisation indicating that in fact because the union weren't proceeding in relation to the roping-in order in relation to any of the Fugro companies that in fact the members had no interest. Well they didn't wish, there would be no roping-in order in relation to those people and there hasn't been. The roping-in award has already been made earlier this afternoon and Mr Moss indicated that, it says given the above I wish to advise the Commission that my members have no interest in the proposed variations which form part of 20052804. So whether there has been some breakdown of communication in your organisation.

PN12

MR O'CONNOR: Yes I don't know, Commissioner. I had received a draft award matter in 6742 which does not include our members. I attended today at 12 noon on the basis that that matter would be coming on at the same time but I am satisfied if the Commission is, that the draft order does not include any of the Fugro organisations that I am happy to withdraw and not be recognised in this application, in 2804.

PN13

THE COMMISSIONER: Well certainly, I mean you are welcome to stay if you want, Mr O'Connor, I am just trying to make it easy for everyone.

PN14

MR O'CONNOR: Yes.

PN15

THE COMMISSIONER: We have had this correspondence from Mr Moss indicating that as those companies weren't going to be subject to the roping-in order and they haven't been. The roping-in order has been dealt with and doesn't include any of those, in fact includes no one in Western Australia they are all South Australian companies and indicating that therefore they had no interest in the variation application so maybe you should have a word to Mr Moss.

PN16

MR O'CONNOR: If that is the case Commissioner then I ought not be part of these proceedings. It perhaps might be recorded for the record, your conversation in the other matter and on that basis and particularly we have been given a draft award which reflects what you have said, then we are happy to withdraw.

PN17

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. Thank you. If you would like to do that. Okay well, perhaps get back to Ms Booth please if you would like to make your submissions.

PN18

MS BOOTH: Certainly, Commissioner. Thank you.

PN19

MR O'CONNOR: Can I now be excluded, Commissioner?

PN20

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes of course, Mr O'Connor. Yes thank you.

PN21

MR O'CONNOR: Thank you very much. Thank you.

PN22

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, Ms Booth?

PN23

MS BOOTH: Thank you, Commissioner. The AMWU seeks to vary the Land Surveyors General Award 1998 pursuant to section 113 of the Act. This application was made as a result of discussions between the parties in the previous matter heard this afternoon, number 6742 of 2004, a roping-in application made pursuant to 111(1)(b) of the Act. Commissioner, the AMWUs application to vary the award together with the notice of listing and draft order was sent to the respondents by registered mail on 15 April 2005 and on 20 April 2005 a further notice of listing was sent to the respondents by registered mail. Our proof of service should be on the Commission's file.

PN24

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes thank you, Ms Booth, I have that here.

PN25

MS BOOTH: Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner, a copy of the draft order has been provided to the parties and was provided to the Commission yesterday.

PN26

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes thank you.

PN27

MS BOOTH: Commissioner, I would like to draw your attention to a proposed amendment to that draft order. As a result of some discussion here today it was thought of assistance to the Commission to clarify the drafting that has been proposed at point 4 of the draft order.

PN28

THE COMMISSIONER: Can you just bear with me, Ms Booth, a second, I seem to have mislaid, I have got two copies of the other one but I don't have that one. Have you got a spare, by any chance?

PN29

MS BOOTH: Certainly, Commissioner, I can provide a spare copy.

PN30

THE COMMISSIONER: It might be easier if I could have that please. I seem to have got two of the draft order for the previous matter. Thanks, Ms Booth, so at which?

PN31

MS BOOTH: At point 4 Commissioner.

PN32

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN33

MS BOOTH: I would like to propose a change in the wording at that point and instead of the wording that currently exists to insert the following. By inserting a new subclause, section 7.5.1(1)(4) which would read, in South Australia the reference to Boxing Day shall mean Proclamation Day and the reference to Melbourne Cup Day shall mean Adelaide Cup Day.

PN34

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. So it is just putting it into a more formal draft in a sense.

PN35

MS BOOTH: Yes, Commissioner, putting in a drafting which is better able to be inserted into the award, Commissioner.

PN36

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. Presumably you can provide a copy of that?

PN37

MS BOOTH: Yes Commissioner a revised copy, electronic copy can be provided to the Commission.

PN38

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. Thank you. Was there anything else that you wanted to say?

PN39

MS BOOTH: Commissioner, that is the summary of our submissions. We believe that the draft order as provided complies with the Acts and requirements of the Commission and if it please the Commission we would seek an operative date for the variation, pay point to commence on or after today's date.

PN40

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. I might mark this. I know that point 4 will be varied but I will mark it as AMWU1.

EXHIBIT #AMWU1 DRAFT ORDER

PN41

MS BOOTH: Thank you, Commissioner.

PN42

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. Mr Butler, do you have a copy of that draft order and by the way you needn't stand seeing we are on video. It makes it awkward with people sort of disappearing off the screen.

PN43

MR BUTLER: Right, Commissioner. The draft order that I have received was the one sent to me on 14 April along with other documentation pertaining to the serving of notice. So if there has been any other draft orders since that time then we have not had an opportunity to look at them.

PN44

THE COMMISSIONER: Right well maybe I can just clarify, Ms Booth, leaving aside point 4 which you are intending to change is there any difference between what is now AMWU1 and what was served on the parties?

PN45

MS BOOTH: No, Commissioner. The copy that was provided previously to all of the parties is the same draft that you have before you today.

PN46

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. Thank you. Does that clarify it, Mr Butler?

PN47

MR BUTLER: Yes Commissioner and in that case if the only change to the draft order is the amendment made to point 4 and if all the other clauses are the same then APESMA supports the variation as proposed.

PN48

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. Including the change to point 4 that Ms Booth was proposing earlier?

PN49

MR BUTLER: Yes Commissioner.

PN50

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. Thank you. Mr Sheehan?

PN51

MR SHEEHAN: Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner, I can confirm that the draft order ….. by consent. It is the result of discussions between the parties over a lengthy period of time and the variations are basically there to accommodate South Australian respondents as was heard in the matter before you earlier today so therefore we support the variations that have been sought by the union and in relation to item 4 we don't have a problem with that minor amendment and we would support the operative date which is also in line with the operative date of the roping-in award made earlier today. If it please the Commission.

PN52

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. Thank you. Ms Booth, was there anything you wanted to say in response to any of the comments?

PN53

MS BOOTH: Nothing further, Commissioner.

PN54

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. Thank you. Well on the basis of what has been put I am satisfied that I should grant this application by the AMWU to vary the Land Surveyors General Award 1998. The application has been properly made and served and is in fact by consent. The order giving effect to the variation will be in terms of the draft order, exhibit AMWU1 with the addition of the proposed changes to point 4 as earlier outlined by Ms Booth. The order will come into force from the first pay period to commence on or after today's date being 10 May 2005 and if, is there anything further, Ms Booth?

PN55

MS BOOTH: No Commissioner.

PN56

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Sheehan, anything further from you?

PN57

MR SHEEHAN: Nothing from me, Commissioner, thank you.

PN58

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. Mr Butler?

PN59

MR BUTLER: No Commissioner.

PN60

THE COMMISSIONER: Right and thank you. I am glad that we finally found you. We were sort of looking at an empty court room before.

PN61

MR BUTLER: Yes I was on my own for about half an hour.

PN62

THE COMMISSIONER: That is the problem when you have multiple video links in the other states and when you weren't there I actually thought that something like that might have happened and you were in one room and we were in another link. You were probably lucky you didn't find yourself linked up with someone else's hearing. Anyway thank you all for attending today and the matter is now adjourned generally. Thank you.

<ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [2.42PM]

LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs

EXHIBIT #AMWU1 DRAFT ORDER PN40