C2005/1226, Transcript of Proceedings [2005] AIRCTrans 2052 (5 October 2005)

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

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Workplace Relations Act 1996 12910-1

COMMISSIONER FOGGO

C2005/1226

FIRE AND EMERGENCY SERVICES AUTHORITY OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA
AND
UNITED FIREFIGHTERS’ UNION OF AUSTRALIA-WEST AUSTRALIAN BRANCH
s.99 - Notification of an industrial dispute
(C2005/1226)

MELBOURNE

12.32PM, WEDNESDAY, 21 SEPTEMBER 2005

Continued from 1/9/2005

THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE CONDUCTED VIA VIDEO CONFERENCE AND RECORDED IN MELBOURNE

PN1

MS K HOLMES: Commissioner, from the Fire and Emergency Services Authority there is MS C BOCSO, and MR P THELWELL.

PN2

MR J WALKER: Appearing for the United Fire Fighters Union. Cassandra, we can’t actually see the Commissioner very well. We can see you very well.

PN3

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, I have got all the photos, they have arrived and there was an additional note from FESA, so whereabouts are we then?

PN4

MS HOLMES: All right, we will go first then Commissioner. What we have provided is a summary of the works that have been completed and that are progressing. What we can do is, if you would like we can address some of the critical issues that were identified in the summary that you provided on 5 September and that will probably give you a fairly clear indication of where FESA is at in terms of addressing the issues of efficiencies discussed at Butler.

PN5

What we have got is the telephone connection was raised as an issue. That is all completed and operating, so staff have Internet, e-mail access, they have facsimile machines, they have three telephones. The electronic and telephone access is all complete. The water is not an issue. The facility has running water, there is hot and cold water in the refitted kitchen. We have got the shower installation completed and there is also a sink with cold water. The toilet installation is fully operational and there is also a sink with hot and cold water there.

PN6

The other issues that were listed in the summary that you issued related to facilities for PPE and breathing apparatus including dealing with soiled and contaminated equipment, installation of the bituminised area and the shed. As FESA indicated to the UFU in our letter dated 8 September, which we also copied to you, construction and installation of the shed will take approximately nine weeks, and that was purely manufacturers. The manufacturers that we sought quotes from indicated that it would take them that time to get the materials, construct the shed and then a further two weeks also for installation. All that being subject to the weather as well.

PN7

FESA proposed an interim solution of constructing a verandah around two sides of the demountable with a sea container for the storage of equipment. We are pleased so say that the verandah is almost 100 per cent installed. There is still a little bit of – there is one corner that still needs to be installed as of yesterday afternoon, and obviously the area needs to be cleaned up a bit. The photos provided by both FESA and the UFU hopefully give you an idea of what that verandah looks like.

PN8

It is 6 metres on the western side of the demountable where the sea container is also positioned so that it provides a good area of shelter for staff in that area. We will expect that they will prepare to leave for an incident and congregate after they come back from the incident to change out of PPE. The sea container has been installed as well. It was adjusted yesterday because the first position it was put in when it was installed last week didn’t allow for the main doors of the large compartment to actually be opened and that is the compartment where we will install hooks so that PPE can be stored so it can actually hang up and dry.

PN9

There is also a smaller compartment in the sea container that has a separate door and that is currently being used to store kit bags. Now that the demountable has been shifted slightly we can get those larger doors open so we can now go ahead and install the hooks. That should be completed fairly quickly and staff will be able to hang up their PPE in the very near future.

PN10

One of the issues raised at conference was the drying of the PPE. The largest section of the sea container actually has a mesh floor so it is quite stable, but it is open and allows air flow underneath the sea container and through the sea container along with having two vents in the ceiling, so there is good natural air flow through the sea container which should facilitate with the drying of any wet PPE that is brought back from an incident.

PN11

It is not feasible to install an actual drying cabinet in the sea container, however the plans for the actual shed do include an area for a drying appliance to be installed once that shed is constructed. We believe that the natural ventilation in the sea container will facilitate removal of odours and drying of equipment so we don’t have any OSH issues in that area. We have also had additional PPE brought to the Butler facility so that if someone’s PPE is wet or dirty they have got a clean set that is available for them.

PN12

At conference the issue of soiled and contaminated gear being brought back to the facility was raised and here FESA thinks that we need to differentiate quite clearly between the two with respect to what is actually contamination which relates to when an employee has actually gone to a an incident that involves hazardous material, and therefore that equipment may have been exposed to a toxin, and what may be contamination in terms of what is more dirty or soiled.

PN13

FESA’s SOP requires that where officers attend an incident with hazardous materials decontamination actually occurs at the incident site. If you have been in the hot zone area yourself and your equipment will be decontaminated at that zone, that you not come back to the station without being decontaminated. The actual process that would be followed at the site would very much be determined by what hazardous material was actually involved in that incident.

PN14

At the time of conference FESA’s understanding was that the issue was that wet and dirty PPE was being brought back to the Butler facility and because there was no external storage it had to be brought into the demountable, thereby transferring the water and the dirt inside to where the officers would actually rest and recuperate after attending an incident. We believe that the installation of the sea container and the verandah now provides that that equipment doesn’t have to be brought into the actual demountable area so we don’t believe we have got an issue any more with the soiled and dirty equipment being brought inside. It can stay outside.

PN15

At conference the issue of the servicing of breathing appuratus was also raised because I think at that stage that was also occurring within the demountable as well. FESA has, as we indicated in our letter to the UFU, we have ordered a three basin, stainless steel trough that has been specially fabricated which will form the actual BA servicing facility in the shed once that is constructed, however we have also arranged that it can be, once it is received in about two weeks, it can actually be installed under the verandah facility so that the BA cleaning, which is really what a service is, can occur under the verandah at the back of the demountable.

PN16

We are satisfied that that will be sufficient from an OSH perspective. Again, the BA doesn’t have contaminants, it is merely giving it a clean and changing the cylinder over so that it is ready for wear at the next incident where BA might be required. In the interim, until the trough is supplied, which should be in about two weeks, the Butler staff have been given three very large plastic tubs which can be used under the verandah to do that servicing.

PN17

Just a point to note from our standard operating procedure on BA servicing, there are a number of parts to that procedure which includes that the BA servicing is actually undertaken with warm or cold water, it doesn’t need hot water. While there isn’t running water available out the back under the verandah at this point, until the shed is actually installed, we don’t believe it is causing an issue from a BA servicing perspective.

PN18

The other issue that was raised, obviously, was the shed, and we have advised the UFU that construction and installation of the shed will take approximately nine weeks, but obviously that is still subject to the weather. FESA has been able to expedite the approval processes for getting quotes for the shed which has meant that we have been able to do that a lot more quickly than we otherwise would have been able to. What we have provided in the documentation that was provided to yourself and Mr Walker this morning are copies of two faxes and an e-mail provided from the manufacturer which indicates that the shed cannot be delivered in a shorter time period, and also some installation issues that impact on the bituminised area.

PN19

One of the things that installation of the shed means is that we are actually not able to go ahead with the bituminising until next week at the earliest because the manufacturer has insisted that they install the footings for the sheds before the bituminising occurs, and as indicated in one of the faxes provided they don’t have the resources available to do this until 27 September, next week, therefore FESA originally thought that we could have started the bituminising process within this three weeks since the conference, however because of the process for shed and the requirement from the manufacturer to install the footings themselves it means that we can’t commence it until next week.

PN20

Weather will be quite a fundamental issue in both the installation of the shed and the bituminising. Some of the documentation that we provided to you is a bar chart of rainfall that we have actually experienced in Perth over the last three weeks, and as you can see from that the fine weather in Perth has been quite intermittent, there have been very few consecutive days where we haven’t had any form of rainfall. We saw Mr Walker’s lovely photos that were taken on Monday which show Perth in all its glory, with beautiful blue sky, but unfortunately yesterday it went back to rain and today it is also quite overcast and we are probably going to have a bit of rain.

PN21

The table that Chris Bocso obtained from the Bureau of Meteorology, along with some other statistical information paints the picture of how much rainfall Perth has had this month. In the period of 1 September to 20 September 2004, Perth had about 29.8 millimetres of rain whereas for the same period this year, so since the conference, this year to yesterday, Perth has had 77.8 millimetres of rain. It has been quite wet over here, Commissioner, and that is something both the installer of the bitumen and the shed manufacturer have made very clear, that they are going to need fine weather to complete that work, but they have given us the timeframes that they expect to be able to complete it in.

PN22

If I could then draw your attention to the summary of completed works and the works progressing there are a number of other actions that FESA has completed over the last three weeks, or commenced work on, just to show that we are doing our best to improve the facilities available to staff at Butler. Hopefully the photos that have been provided by both FESA and the UFU can also give you a better idea of what sort of standard of conditions that staff were working under up there. We have had fly screens measured and ordered for all of the windows and doors. The doors, they are necessary in particular, and they are due for installation around 3 October. They are not far away.

PN23

We have completed installation of lino around both entrance ways and from the pictures you can see that there is an entrance way at the front of the demountable and then there is a rear exit at the kitchen. Both the kitchen and a large area around the front door have had lino put down so that people are not tracking dirt or water on to the carpet when they are entering and exiting the building. The gymnasium has also had lino installed and the gym equipment has been ordered and should be delivered I believe in about the next five weeks. It takes about seven or eight weeks to get the gym equipment. In the interim, as they have since they have been stationed at Butler, staff do have access to a full gym down at the MetroRail facility and MetroRail are quite happy for them to go down and use it.

PN24

We have also had steps installed at the kitchen door. This is so that – when the demountable was installed there were only steps by the front door, not the rear exit and we have had to install the verandah to go around the kitchen side of the demountable and around the rear of the demountable so that staff can use that covered access while the shed is built, by the front door. So that means that they will still have access to a covered walkway for the full period that the shed is being installed.

PN25

Staff have also requested a remote control facility to open the gate that secures the facility. We have just about got the go ahead to do that and once we get written confirmation from the MetroRail people that we can actually use their site, then that can be installed very quickly by using a wireless mechanism so that we don’t have to do any further digging which would then delay installation of the shed and bituminising. That should be done fairly quickly.

PN26

Staff have also recently requested some additional walls to be constructed within the demountable. At the moment, from the pictures that you have got it is quite an open area but it has been separated off. They have created an area, a change room, with the lockers, and the office and the gym are separate. There will be another couple of areas separated off with partitions so that there is a separate TV viewing area and also a separate rest/study area. At the moment there are a number of tables in the facility and there is an office where the computer and fax et cetera are established. Three of the staff that are stationed there are obviously still completing studies so we need to have a number of areas so they can separate and undertake their studies from there and the new partitioning with help us do that. I think that was all we had to report back on unless you have any questions.

PN27

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Mr Walker? Before I do that I am going to mark some of the information.

MFI #FESA1 LETTER FROM FESU TO UFUA DATED 08/09/2005
MFI #FESA2 PROGRESS UPDATE
MFI #FESA3 PHOTOGRAPHS AND COPIES OF CORRESPONDENCE
MFI #UFU1 COLOUR PHOTOGRAPHS

PN28

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Walker?

PN29

MR WALKER: Thanks Commission. Perhaps I should just go back to the telephone conference and the direction you sent by fax. We subsequently had a meeting with the staff of Perth which included the Butler crew and they accepted the direction to return to Butler. There certainly was a lot of questions asked about what if we don’t and the like, but we certainly assured them that this was the appropriate direction to go in.

PN30

I suppose the other questions that were asked were what if FESA cannot complete the tasks in the three weeks, because certainly with the time that had been taken up to that point, three weeks seemed to be a very tight timeframe to build a shed and to provide all these facilities. We said that really it is now in the Commission’s hands and that you said that you would perhaps hold inspections and a more formal hearing and make further orders if that was required, so that was the answer we actually gave to those members. It was the next day that we found out the shed would be eight weeks and now we find out it is going to be nine weeks from today, so that is actually 12 weeks to actually build the shed.

PN31

MS HOLMES: Sorry, Commissioner, if I can interject. No, the letter that we sent you on 8 September indicated it would be nine weeks, so it was from that date, not from today.

PN32

MR WALKER: When will it be completed?

PN33

MS HOLMES: Nine weeks from 8 September, when we wrote to you.

PN34

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, that is about when it will happen.

PN35

MR WALKER: Yes, I guess we came away from the conference understanding that FESA said they would have these things completed within three weeks and you made that direction to have these matters completed, and whether there was a misunderstanding about the shed or not, but clearly our members have had that information relayed to them and that was certainly in your broader recommendation, that the shed would be completed within the three weeks.

PN36

From the union’s perspective, when I visited the site on Monday and spoke to the crew that was on shift they said some things had been done. The vinyl had been put down and they understood the gymnasium equipment had been ordered, and certainly the verandah had been started and was being constructed at the time that I was there. They raised with me the problems with the container, that the doors wouldn’t open because the container was too high for the actual new verandah. When they tried to open the doors there was a problem, but they buried the front of the container, as I understand, a bit lower, so that allowed the doors to be opened.

PN37

I had a look at the container and it does have a mesh floor so there is ventilation. I think it will probably get very hot on that side of the building anyway so I don’t think there will be a problem with the drying of coats. They are currently, as I understand, carrying their equipment in the pumps themselves and that is probably not an unusual practice because usually it is in a fire engine room, under cover, and they would go straight to the pump to get dressed and move off to a call.

PN38

It will take some change for them to go out the back door instead of the front door when the alarm goes off, and to go around to the container to get their equipment because currently – well, when I visited the other day I asked specifically how it is currently working and they’re actually going to the pump, and if there is inclement weather or not, they’re actually changing at the pump and I suppose that now this verandah is built they will have to change that and store the equipment away from the pump, to actually get changed and move through to the appliance.

PN39

We have had some inclement weather and that has been a difficulty if we still expect them to work through the rain to get into the appliances and to move off to calls and I guess there was an expectation raised by our membership, not just with the Butler staff who have been very, I guess, accommodating, I must say, but more the Perth shifts, that there was an expectation that the shed would be completed within this timeframe that you had directed FESA to complete, and that hasn’t been the case, and we still have that principal facility that is still some way off as it seems, that will basically turn it into a working fire station that will be of a minimum standard that would be expected.

PN40

THE COMMISSIONER: I am pleased that the directions were followed. It seems that all the issues which were raised in conference have been addressed and I refer of course to FESA2. I just don’t think there is anything more that can be done. All the matters which were of importance to the UFU members have been addressed. I don’t think there is any way in which the Commission or builders, well, not the Commission, but the builders or installers of these various parts of the facility upgrade can overcome problems of weather and business, availability of labour, and their own, if I can coin them, safe operating procedures, whereby they can’t work when it is wet. The directions expire as of now. What is going to happen from here?

PN41

MS HOLMES: FESA’s intention is to continue as we have indicated in our project plan that has been provided to all staff at Butler. We also provided all staff at Butler a copy of the letter that we provided to UFU. That was on station yesterday when we visited. They have been continually kept informed of progress of things like the shed so it has been well known for almost the last three weeks that the shed was not going to be delivered in three weeks, but this was the interim solution, the verandah, to address the issue of protection from weather when people were changing before and after an incident.

PN42

We believe that any genuine OSH issues have been dealt with and we are showing good faith to the employees at Butler in being up front and honest about saying look, this is the difficulty we are facing. It is going to be minimum of eight weeks before a shed can be constructed and brought to the site and installation commence. FESA’s intention is to continue with that process.

PN43

THE COMMISSIONER: The footings go in next week and then the bitumen is commenced and that is going to be a further obvious example that FESA is continuing in good faith to complete all the issues which were the subject of the dispute. There is nothing that can be done to move them along faster.

PN44

MR WALKER: Can I just raise the issue about the bitumen? You might recall at the conference the bitumen was going to be laid that day.

PN45

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN46

MR WALKER: There was an issue we had about – it is a limestone base and with the wet weather we have had it can be a slippery and wet surface and it was something we saw that if it was going to be laid, well, that would resolve some of the issues and it wasn’t until – we did have wet weather at that time and it was delayed because of wet weather but now it is delayed because of these footings, not going to lay the bitumen and then having to cut it up to actually dig these footings and put it in.

PN47

Since the conference we have had a clear expectation we would have a hard surface we were going to work off and because of the consideration of the shed footings and other things the bitumen hasn’t been able to be laid so we are still in that situation where it is either going to be considerably dusty if it ever dries out or it is going to continue to be wet, slippery and muddy until these footings are actually completed. There was an expectation that this would be delivered, or laid, that day we had the conference, or the next day.

PN48

MS HOLMES: At that time there was an intention to start the pouring of the bitumen, however it was ceased due to inclement weather at that stage, because with the bitumen you need to have a number of days of fine weather prior to laying the bitumen as well as good weather for a period after the bitumen is laid to allow it to set and properly adhere to the ground. In that time it also became clear that because we had expedited the quotation process for the shed, that the shed wasn’t going to be able to go in very quickly, and then the issue with the footings became apparent. We could go ahead with laying the bitumen earlier if we had good weather, which it doesn’t look like we will have anyway, however it will delay installation of the shed and I guess we do see the shed as being a priority.

PN49

To date there only appears to be one genuine complaint of slippage although that person for whatever reason didn’t feel that it was necessary to lodge an occupational safety and health incident report, or ..... form. There was some discussion yesterday when we visited of puddles in the area however, at the time that we were there, there were no puddles and the ground wasn’t particularly slippery, so that issue has been considered by the occupational health and safety manager, and given that, again, we are going to be looking for another hopefully short period given the weather also, that they are going to have this surface. Again, I don’t think it is a genuine issue that we could - - -

PN50

THE COMMISSIONER: There is just absolutely nothing that can be done about it anyway, unless you have got a few tricks up your sleeve. The weather is the weather and if it has upset our planned timetable then there is absolutely nothing that we can do about it, and to suggest that the bitumen goes down and then you go an dig holes in it to put the footings in for the shed, it then complicates the whole structural process. All right, well, it sounds as though everything is going along, I was going to say swimmingly, that would be not correct given the weather, but I am really pleased with the progress that has been made and I am sure that the employees must realise that everything is being done to meet their concerns.

PN51

MS HOLMES: There has been a lot of discussion between Phil Thelwell who is the regional director for that area Butler falls within, and both he - and your district managers?

PN52

MR THELWELL: That’s correct.

PN53

MS HOLMES: Have been out there on a regular basis to keep staff informed of progress. Also, in the last three weeks FESA has been eliciting suggestions from staff of how the facility can be made better and that is where the things like the partitioning and the remote access have come from, so FESA is doing whatever it can to make the place better for those people up there. The crew that was on yesterday very definitely expressed appreciation and understanding and recognition of how FESA has tried to progress this.

PN54

THE COMMISSIONER: All right then. I didn’t realise that the – why did you put a gym in there when there is a fully fitted out gym 100 metres away?

PN55

MS HOLMES: All stations are kitted out with a gym. There was a room at the rear, although it is only a small room, there is space to put gym equipment in there and we are happy to do so to save them from having to go down to the MetroRail facility.

PN56

MR WALKER: There was also limited access. Westrail provide a limit of two only at a time so it didn’t impact on their employees as well.

PN57

THE COMMISSIONER: I see. There are not that many on shift at the same time at Butler anyway.

PN58

MS HOLMES: We have a crew of four people in there and I guess we see it as as it is easier for them to be able to use a gym that - - -

PN59

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Well, I’m not going to say take it out. What is the noise that I can hear?

PN60

MS BOCSO: We have got no noise at this end.

PN61

THE COMMISSIONER: Haven’t you?

PN62

MS BOCSO: No.

PN63

MR WALKER: It’s a rustling or - - -

PN64

THE COMMISSIONER: No, no. You’re all rustling your papers far too much but no, it is like someone on a two-way. Can I just suggest then that with the document that is marked as FESA2, that is, put the additional information in it, Ms Holmes, that you have outlined and if you can update the dates in there. Can you then formally send that to Mr Walker please so that that can be the latest update.

PN65

MS HOMES: Yes, will do.

PN66

THE COMMISSIONER: And it can be shown as, in the letter it can be shown as this was the documentation in line with the Commissioner’s recommendation. We have updated it so that you are aware of all the precise progress that is being made.

PN67

MS HOLMES: Yes.

PN68

THE COMMISSIONER: I don’t think there is anything else we can do. You have answered then in relation to what FESA is doing. Mr Walker, will I need to reissue directions in relation to this matter?

PN69

MR WALKER: You probably won’t need to reissue directions. We have actually accepted the directions as being past this particular report back in the sense of we accepted we didn’t follow the dispute settling procedures so we have left ourselves wide open there. I didn’t expect you would necessarily need to reissue the directions, we have complied with them. We are back there working and I guess from our members’ perspective I suppose they have just had an expectation that things would be resolved by this time.

PN70

Now, I’m not expecting that the members are going to up stakes and move out, but I can’t give a cast iron guarantee that won’t happen. I suppose like any situation when it gets to this situation I’m really going to have to just report back on what progress has been made and what you’re now going to recommend, and take that back to our committee and executive and I guess they will then determine the union’s position on the matter. That won’t be for another three weeks, the committee meeting, but in the meantime I suppose I will have to report back to the executive who could make a determination that could then be endorsed by the committee.

PN71

THE COMMISSIONER: And what is that determination going to be?

PN72

MR WALKER: Well, I’m interested to see what you are going to recommend from this hearing today, that I would then take back. Are you recommending that enough is being done and that progress is being made and that FESA has complied, I suppose in general terms, the requirements you set out in the teleconference on 1 September?

PN73

THE COMMISSIONER: As far as I am concerned both parties have accepted in full and complied with the directions which were issued on 1 September, and the recommendation which was issued on 5 September. Yes, the directions were issued on 1 September and the recommendation was issued on 5 September. As far as I can understand from your submission and the documentation before me the directions and the recommendation have been complied with in full and I am very pleased there has been as much progress.

PN74

I think the work of FESA is an absolute demonstration of good faith insofar as they have moved forward with all the issues which were problematic when the dispute arose. The delay is not of FESA’s making, the delay is due to outside issues exterior to any of the powers that FESA or the Commission or the UFU might have, and I think that the progress is an outstanding demonstration of good faith to resolve some issues which had to be resolved.

PN75

Given that this fire facility wasn’t able to commence with the planning which would normally occur, I think next time someone has a rush of blood to the head and decides they are going to have a new facility in quick smart time, perhaps you could explain to them the difficulties such promises raise. Having said that I hope there is no problem with the shed vis that the truck doesn’t fit in or that the doors won’t open. It seems extraordinary that these sort of things can happen but obviously they are things not in the control of FESA. Mr Thelwell, make sure the truck fits in the shed will you?

PN76

MR THELWELL: Yes, Commissioner, I will personally measure it for you.

PN77

THE COMMISSIONER: That would be all we need. In relation to the bituminising, that will occur post haste once those footings are done because it doesn’t have to wait for anything other than the footings. My understanding is that the installation of sheds these days is all by sort of sections and Meccano or building block sort of things. It is all prefabricated and it is just a matter of putting it together once it is all on site.

PN78

What I am going to do is leave the file open and if there are any other problems either party is at liberty to apply for an urgent hearing. In terms of what is going to assist the parties today, do you want me to put out a statement or a recommendation arising from today? Does that advance matters any further?

PN79

MR WALKER: Commissioner, I suppose - the issue about the shed. In your recommendation, the last dot point on the shed, you clearly made the point that it would be completed in three weeks.

PN80

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN81

MR WALKER: And I just – that is where the expectation has been, I guess, raised with our members so there needs to be a clarification of that, whether that was a misunderstanding, because certainly we had gone away with the understanding that all these matters would be concluded in three weeks, even though we thought that was a very tight timeframe and would be difficult to actually meet.

PN82

THE COMMISSIONER: I am going to put something out to the extent that if some of your members don’t understand why things are delayed then I despair. It is pretty obvious it has been raining over there I would think, and I’m not going to spend my time explaining to people who have got nothing better to do that to say this was going to be done in three weeks, and we don’t accept that there are any reasons why that was not done.

PN83

I mean that I am just not going to waste any more time on those people because it is obvious from what has been going on at the facility that all stops have been pulled out and if there is a group of your members who don’t accept that, well, I will go back to what I though I couched in fairly polite terms in the recommendation, that perhaps there were unrealistic expectations. The fact that I put into a recommendation an expectation that it was going to be finished in three weeks wasn’t my date I pulled out of the ether, it was on the advice of FESA.

PN84

Now the fact that that hasn’t been able to be met and on what I have heard today and in the documentation there are perfectly sound reasons, and if there are some of your members who can’t see that, well, I do think they are being unrealistic. I am not going to go into a great explanation or anything that borders on an apology that the shed isn’t up and operational. I will put out a statement in relation to the considerable progress which has been made and I hope there are no further problems associated with this particular facility.

PN85

Mr Walker, I should congratulate you on your photography, they are lovely photos and I must say can see the next problem that is going to occur. You will put up these partitions and then there will be complaints about the lights, because the lights don’t go into particular areas, and I’m sure you will be able to solve that. Then of course you have got what you are going to do with all the lockers because they’re going to be extraneous to needs because you’re going to have partitions there. Then of course there is the landscaping. I am actually a bit of a green finger myself, I could oversee the landscaping. I must say I was amazed at the photo with the verandah in it, about how desolate it is. What is out there?

PN86

MR THELWELL: Commissioner, may I add to that for you please?

PN87

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN88

MR THELWELL: The MetroRail complex is a $350m state asset which is to do with the main metro rail line that services the Perth metropolitan area. The facilities out there are still growing. At present we have a total of eight rail cars that are out there valued at $8m each and there will be a total of $36m. That infrastructure out there is still increasing and MetroRail have been more than accommodating in allowing us to use their facilities and using that particular site to put our temporary facilities.

PN89

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, so now anyone in the business knows that you are looking around for suitable sites and the land prices will skyrocket and you will have to operate within that. That is a process – what did you tell me? That you think this temporary facility is going to be like that for several years.

PN90

MS HOLMES: For about two years, Commissioner.

PN91

MR THELWELL: Two.

PN92

MS HOLMES: Yes, about two.

PN93

MR THELWELL: It is based upon a whole lot of infrastructure being developed within one of the local government areas there and we don’t have it programmed to have a 24/7 facility there until 2007-08, Commissioner.

PN94

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. I’m sure that we could all make a bet now that several years down the track there will be a problem. Mr Walker will be putting applications to say this temporary facility is now a permanent facility and it was only supposed to be a temporary facility, and I will remember that 2007 was supposed to be the end of its lifetime. Anyway, we will see what happens. I will get something out to you today so that people are aware that the issues are ongoing, and as I say, I am not going to list a further hearing but either side is at liberty to seek a hearing. Thank you very much.

<ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [1.16PM]

LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs

MFI #FESA1 LETTER FROM FESU TO UFUA DATED 08/09/2005 PN27
MFI #FESA2 PROGRESS UPDATE PN27
MFI #FESA3 PHOTOGRAPHS AND COPIES OF CORRESPONDENCE PN27
MFI #UFU1 COLOUR PHOTOGRAPHS PN27