C2005/1660, Transcript of Proceedings [2005] AIRCTrans 227 (2 February 2005)

1800 534 258

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

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Workplace Relations Act 1996 10127

COMMISSIONER BLAIR

C2005/1660

s.170LW - application for settlement of dispute (certification of agreement)

Communications, Electrical, Electronic, Energy, Information, Postal, Plumbing and Allied Services Union of Australia
and
Sigma Pharmaceuticals Pty Ltd
(C2005/1660)
Sigma Pharmaceuticals Pty Ltd Engineering and Laboratories Dandenong Agreement 2002/2005

MELBOURNE

9.38AM, THURSDAY, 20 JANUARY 2005

PN1

MS K IRWIN: I appear on behalf on Sigma Pharmaceuticals and appearing with me this morning, Commissioner, is MR. V. CAREEDY, HR Manager,
MR C. HUGES, Plant Engineer, and MS. M. MAKRIS, Plant Manager.

PN2

THE COMMISSIONER: Is their anyone at the plant?

PN3

MR D. MIER: Yes. On behalf of the CEPU Electrical Division.

PN4

THE COMMISSIONER: Thanks Mr Mier.

PN5

MS. C. CHEW: For the AFW Pyramid and MR. P. ABRIHAMSON. We seek leave to intervene in these proceedings, because it is at the same plant. The AMW has a current EBA in place, and the issues also affect our members .....

PN6

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Ms Chew. Does anybody have any objections to the AMW seeking leave to intervene.

PN7

MS IRWIN: No, Commissioner.

PN8

MR MIER: Thank you, Commissioner.

PN9

THE COMMISSIONER: Just on the first question, do you have any objections?

PN10

MR MIER: No, certainly not.

PN11

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Leave is granted. Thanks, Ms Chew. Right, Mr Mier.

PN12

MR MIER: Thank you, Commissioner. You may, or may not, be aware Commissioner, we are not party to this agreement, but there is a number of electricians there, employed by Sigma. The last one employed was a lad called Andrew, who is actually behind me here, and he was told when he started that he would be working under the terms and conditions of this agreement. So, under that basis all the electricians there have been working under this agreement. What we are saying, Commissioner, is that they have ripped out a bottle line out of a plant in Croydon, and they are reinstalling it at Dandenong. We say that the in house blokes should be doing the work, because in the past they have done all this sort of work, and we have certainly been involved in it. If I could - I have just handed up a couple of bits out of the agreement, Commissioner. If we take clause 13, the contractors clause, we say, point number 1 is we say we should be doing the work. Without a doubt, we should be doing the work, we should be involved in doing the work, because once the contractor leaves, our blokes have got to maintain the plant, they should be familiar with it, they should have an understanding of how it all works et cetera. But nonetheless, myself and a metalworker official, Fergy Effe, met with the company last week, and got nowhere, to put it bluntly. So, clause 13 contractors:

PN13

Contract labour employed to cover peaks in workload for planned or unplanned leave will be sourced from contractors certified agreements with their staff, the employing company and the relevant union

PN14

So, we say, as I said, point number 1, we should be doing the work, but if there is a necessity to bring contractors in, they should be governed by certified agreements with the relevant unions. The company raised that Electrolux throws this all out, so virtually it is open slather. We say, well it's not, we believe this is a peak in the workload. We say it does pertain, because there is a requirement to have an EBA pertains, because all it is doing is regulating the terms and conditions of contractors. This has been held to pertain by the High Court in the Moores case, involving the AWU. Now, I do not have a print of that, but that is what I have been told by our legal bloke. So, on that basis, we would say that if there is need for contractors to be involved, they certainly should have an enterprise agreement with us. The contract mob that they are using is a mob called Complete Pharma Services, and they need to have an agreement with the ETU or the AMWU.

PN15

THE COMMISSIONER: What is their name?

PN16

MR MIER: Complete Pharma Services Pty Ltd. And just as a by line, Commissioner, I have put in protected action with them. I am unaware whether metals have done that, as yet, but I am sure it won't be too far away. Yes, so on that basis, we are saying that if they have to use a contractor, the contractor should have an EBA. Also Commissioner, in this agreement, if you flip over the page, on clause 43, introduction of change, it goes through a number of things, but it says that the union must be involved. My information is, certainly through our organiser, Shaun Lean, who looks after the plant, that he has not been informed of the move on the bottle line at all, via the company. And talking to the metals, neither have they. Now, the agreement is pretty specific, I think it is 43.2.1:

PN17

Sigma shall discuss with the employees affected, and the union

PN18

So, they have needed - they have not done that either. They have a consultative committee, but unfortunately the ETU are not involved in that, so we have - we play no part in it at all. Yes, so Commissioner, we are seeking your assistance to try and rectify this impasse, and I am happy to go - we are happy to - well, the ETU is happy to go into conference, if the Commission pleases.

PN19

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Ms Chew. Oh, you have changed.

PN20

MR ABRIHAMSON: Commissioner, yes. Yes, I confirmed with the representative from the ETU, David Mier, in terms of the position in terms of contractors. Once again, we have not been consulted officially by the company in regards to the relocation from the Croydon plant to the Dandenong plant. Both myself and Shaun Lean, the actual organiser for that - for Sigma Pharmaceuticals, from the ETU, have only had one extremely brief meeting at the Dandenong plant, where we have indicated to the company that if the relocation was going to go ahead, that the fitters and electricians had to be involved in that. If they were involved in that, Complete Pharmaceutical Services should be involved to the extent of providing supervisory category, or supervisory role in that, and the fitters and electricians would do the actual installation work, so that at that particular point, at the particular juncture, the fitters and electricians would pick up the knowledge and would be able to have the knowledge passed on from Complete Pharmaceutical Services, about the modifications, changes and any necessary technical expertise that may be part and parcel of the installation of that particular equipment.

PN21

So we have only had - and that was rejected out hand by the company. There is a number of reasons for that, in that sense that it denies the fitters and electricians at Dandenong the right - or to advance their career path, in terms of certain equipment there. And in particular, PLC work, which they do not perform on that particular piece of equipment, or probably will not perform on that particular piece of equipment. So - - -

PN22

THE COMMISSIONER: So, once the bottle line is installed in the Dandenong plant, are you saying that the maintenance crew at the Dandenong plant would not have any involvement in ongoing maintenance of that equipment - that would be Pharma Services?

PN23

MR ABRIHAMSON: We would have to maintain and repair the equipment, up to the extent of the PLCs. There has been a long running sort of argument at Sigma Dandenong in terms of the use of PLC software and equipment there. And, if you - as with any plant, and it is normal, standard procedure and practice outside, in every other company, that electricians and fitters do the PLC work, up to a certain point. I mean, if there is an advanced technology, then the people that have installed - well, who are responsible for that equipment - come in and do, you know, repair that in terms of that, but they also pass on that sort of knowledge. So the in house people can do that particular work, and that is standard procedure. Most companies then ask, do you have PLC work, when you apply for a particular position.

PN24

The machine is an old machine, so there is a lot of wear and tear. It is very fiddly, it is difficult to maintain. There is - I was informed by the Croydon employees at the Sigma site that there was a lot of wear and tear, fiddly, difficult to maintain. The slat counter, unless you have worked on that machine then - you know, like it is going to be very hard to make adjustments. If you do make adjustments then, unless you know what you are doing, then you are going to make mistakes and it is not going to work correctly. I also should point out that I have just been sort of handed, from the fitters and electricians at Dandenong, is that we have done all the major installation and work over the last three to five years. It is a suppository line, one fitter took one month. Is it Liposuction? Lypset - one fitter again, one month. Machazeni - - -

PN25

THE COMMISSIONER: You have a production line for Liposuction - I must go and visit it!

PN26

MR ABRIHAMSON: Yes. The Machazeni - all services applied by Sigma people, the feeding tablets press, recondition the machine and installed it, set up the manesti express relocated from Croydon, the Pharmaclode installation and validation, relocated the Bosch excalation. So all, every piece of new or reconditioned machinery installed in the last three to five years has been undertaken and completed by Sigma in house engineering personnel. And it goes to say that we have been involved - or we have to maintain the machinery - so why can't we install and commission them.

PN27

It also, in terms of an advertisement for a job application for a maintenance fitter, for Sigma Pharmaceuticals at the Dandenong - the primary focus of the position is to support the production team. Duties would include preventative and breakdown maintenance, installation, and commissioning of new equipment, upgrading and improving existing equipment. And that is part of their duties. And that has been the custom and practice of Sigma Pharmaceuticals at Dandenong and that has been denied to us on this particular occasion. Thank you, Commissioner.

PN28

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Yes, Ms Irwin.

PN29

MS IRWIN: Thank you, Commissioner. I guess, Commissioner, first of all there are a number of issues that should be - need to be clarified. Firstly, I suggest that the matter before you is not a dispute over the application of the agreement, and we would therefore be submitting that the Commission has no jurisdiction under section 170lw to hear this matter. Principally, Commissioner, we would say that the issue the union is claiming the parties are in dispute over has been the use of contractors. We submit that it is over the use contractors for project work. And that is not contemplated by clause 13 of the current agreement, which simply states that when it uses contract labour for the purposes of covering peaks in workload or planned or unplanned leave, that in those circumstances, when it is using contractors, that it will ensure that the companies have current certified agreements between their staff and the employing company and the relevant unions, and so on.

PN30

So, we would submit from that perspective there is no jurisdiction to - for the Commission to hear this matter.

PN31

THE COMMISSIONER: Now that you have raised those two points, in terms of jurisdiction, what are you going to raise in terms of settling what might be - - -

PN32

MS IRWIN: Well, I guess - - -

PN33

THE COMMISSIONER: An industrial dispute. How about we focus on that.

PN34

MS IRWIN: No, that is fine. I just felt it was important to have those issues on the record, Commissioner. In response to the submissions raised by both the ETU and the AMWU, Commissioner, the company submits that it has consulted with its employees over the movement of the bottle line from Croydon to Dandenong. The employees at Croydon were involved in the decommissioning of that bottle line. The employees at Dandenong, maintenance staff at Dandenong, will be involved in the installation of that plant, with the assistance of CPS, the contractor. Now, CPS have been involved to, I guess, as part of the decommissioning process, to then take - move the piece, the plant, refurbish the plant and then, again, as has happened, I understand, in the past with those other pieces of equipment that Mr Abrihamson raised, CPS worked with the maintenance crew at Sigma at the Dandenong site to actually install that equipment. So, to suggest that Sigma are doing something that is completely different to anything that they have done in the past, at this point in time we would submit would be misleading to Commission to suggest that that is - other than that - what has been occurring in the past.

PN35

In previous matters - in a previous hearing before the Commission in November last year, Commissioner, it is my instructions that the company gave a commitment to involve employees in discussions and consultation over the decommissioning process of this piece of equipment.

PN36

THE COMMISSIONER: Who was that before?

PN37

MS IRWIN: Senior Deputy President Acton. And that this, in fact, took place. The meeting that was held between the company, Mr Mier and Mr Effe on
14 December - again, at that meeting, the company again committed that they had in place a process, and they were about to role out a series of scheduled consultative meetings and so on, with the employees at the Dandenong site. And that is, as I understand it, due to commence, if not today, then certainly tomorrow with those employees. So, certainly the union's argument that the introduction of change provision has not been followed, again we would submit is incorrect in this case.

PN38

THE COMMISSIONER: What is the point that Mr Abrihamson makes in terms of the - is it the PLCs?

PN39

MR ABRIHAMSON: PLCs - yes.

PN40

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, in regard to the PLCs.

PN41

MS IRWIN: I would have to seek further instructions in respect of that, Commissioner. It may be appropriate to discuss the PLCs in more detail in conference.

PN42

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. So you are not opposed to going into conference?

PN43

MS IRWIN: No, not at this point, Commissioner.

PN44

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Commission will adjourn into conference, thanks.

<NO FURTHER PROCEEDINGS RECORDED [9.55AM]