C2005/26, Transcript of Proceedings [2005] AIRCTrans 529 (2 March 2005)

1800 534 258

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

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Workplace Relations Act 1996 10596

SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT LLOYD

C2005/26

s.99 - notification of an industrial dispute

Transport Workers' Union of Australia
and
Qantas Airways Limited
(C2005/26)
Airline Operations (Transport Workers') Award 1998

MELBOURNE

3.14PM, MONDAY, 21 FEBRUARY 2005

Hearing continuing

PN1

MR M BOWER: I appear on behalf of the Transport Workers Union of Australia.

PN2

MR D MILLS: I appear for Qantas Airways Limited, appearing with me is
MR D DURBIN who is the Ramp Services Manager at Melbourne Airport.

PN3

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, Mr Mills. Mr Bower?

PN4

MR BOWER: Your Honour, this is a section 99 in relation to an interpretation of an award clause for the payment of a 50 per cent penalty on shiftwork. As I am filling in for Ms Richards, who has the carriage of this matter I might hand over to Mr Mills to give you a bit of background of the matter and how we see the matter proceeding from here. If the Commission pleases.

PN5

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you. Yes Mr Mills?

PN6

MR MILLS: Your Honour, the clause that we are referring to is actually
clause 27.4.7, continuous afternoon and nightshifts of the Transport Airlines Operations, Transport Workers Award 1998.

PN7

I am not going to go into too much detail, because this really is a little bit of the heads up and it would be very unfair to the TWU for me to do that, but in a nutshell it has been a clause and I think it is fair to say if I was to present the records the company has on the matter, has caused a great degree of angst well and truly before my time in the organisation, Mr Durbin's time with the organisation and I think Ms Richards' time with the Transport Workers Union. The only person who is really responsible and accountable for the construction of this clause, is in fact - who can answer it at this particular point in time is the Federal Secretary of that union. But I won't hold Mr Allen accountable in a sense for the interpretations of the parties, subsequent to its inception.

PN8

It is consistent with most other clauses around the particular issue of continuous shiftwork. If I was just to go to the two key points that the parties would be seeking some guidance and assistance from your Honour, on, would be what does the term continuous work mean? The company has a very strong view and that is based very much around previous decisions, certainly the Federal Court, and we would take your Honour, to that particular clause when the time comes and certainly that would be put in our outline of submissions.

PN9

The second issue then is in the event that continuous work is interpreted in the manner in which we believe it is to be interpreted, what does that actually represent itself and what does the term consecutive afternoon or nightshift mean? The issue of continuous work we believe, has been determined in the Melbourne operation, I might add very quickly that the issue of continuous work is still at debate in other parts of the company's operations interestingly enough, but the issue that's come out of the Melbourne situation, is what do we actually mean by the term consecutive afternoon or nightshift. So it is a twofold argument, the Melbourne argument centres very much around the latter part of what I have just discussed, but I think in the interests of some consistency, for both parties, by that I mean the Federal Office of the Transport Workers Union and the Corporate Offices of Qantas Airways Limited, we would seek guidance from your Honour, in how the parties should actually apply that provision.

PN10

So that's it in a nutshell, in relation to the directions you have received from Ms Richards, she and I had a discussion on Thursday and Friday of last week. I have had a very brief discussion with Mr Bower and I have not taken Ms Richards to this and I have apologised to Mr Bower, to send back to her.

PN11

We just wanted to change the directions slightly and that was could we actually have the parties provide to you the outline of submissions by the close of business on 3 March 2005. The reason for that is the three people who represent the company in this room are actually going to be before Commissioner Bacon, on Monday 28 February, Tuesday the 1st, Wednesday the 2nd, concluding on Thursday, 3 March in Brisbane, in a matter with the Queensland branch of the Transport Workers Union.

PN12

Then in relation to having the matter listed for conciliation, certainly it's the understanding of both Ms Richards and myself, that that would proceed into conference unless Ms Richards and I, so we can cross to your satisfaction with that, I wanted to put some evidence on - well not so much evidence, but put something on the public record. But we would think that at first blush, the guidance of your Honour, in a conference situation would be of some assistance to both parties. As you can see Ms Richards, has actually outlined in her correspondence to you of 18 February, that the matter be listed for conciliation in Melbourne.

PN13

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN14

MR MILLS: I think that is really it, there is no other outstanding matter in relation to this, it's not a matter that is currently the subject of industrial action, however I am very happy to say that it has been the subject of industrial action in the past, not just in Melbourne, but also in Brisbane certainly, and it is a matter that is prone to misinterpretation, misapplication and ultimately dissatisfaction for employees on occasion. And we have really got to a point where the parties really need to get the assistance of the Commission, because we think we are right, the delegates think they are right and that does not always lead to a great outcome.

PN15

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, okay. Thank you Mr Mills. Mr Bower anything else you want to say?

PN16

MR BOWER: Your Honour, I just mention in relation to brief discussions that I did have with Mr Mills, regarding the filing of submissions, as you can see by those draft directions there, really that's to allow parties at least you know probably seven days or a week, working week to have those submissions prior to the conciliation. I understand just from a brief discussion with your associate that you may not be available on 7 March anyway, so subject to your availability for a conference I think as long as we have at least a week or seven days prior to have the submissions, the union is happy to concede.

PN17

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN18

MR BOWER: If the Commission pleases.

PN19

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you Mr Bower. In some respects this is a bit unusual and we have a direction from a section 99 notice, but nevertheless, I can see there could be something to gain from that for the parties and for the Commission so I certainly accept that as a worthwhile idea.

PN20

You mention 3 March was the date for the preparation and serving of submissions, that gives you enough time, as you mentioned you were still engaged on the 3rd I think, before Commissioner Bacon.

PN21

MR MILLS: Your Honour, the reality would be that that would give me - the date today is the 21st, that gives us plenty of time and we are very comfortable with what the arguments are, I mean we think our outline of submissions would only be no more than about two pages really, just highlighting some supporting evidence, around those two particular aspects of the clause that we require some direction on and I do not think it is unreasonable considering the manner in which the Transport Workers Union have approached this matter, for us not to assist in getting the matter moving in a pretty forward direction. So I appreciate your asking me that question, but the 3rd is fine I don't need the 4th, I am actually going to be on annual leave on the 4th, so the 3rd should be satisfactory.

PN22

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, now that means we can set the date for the conciliation a week after that on either afternoon of the 10th or I have the Friday the 11th free. And that leads into a public holiday weekend but is there a preference from the Bar table for the 10th or the 11th?

PN23

MR BOWER: If the commission pleases, I don't have a particular preference but perhaps Thursday might be useful just in terms of a matter that I think the federal office has on Friday afternoon. So I guess there is a slight preference to Thursday, but Friday is certainly doable in a diary as well.

PN24

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN25

MR MILLS: Neither of those days poses any problem for us. I note that it is not a public holiday in New South Wales, so I can even do the 14th.

PN26

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, I will issue a direction that on or before the close of business on 3 March 2005, both parties file on the Commission and serve on each other an outline of submissions and that the matter will be listed for hearing which I anticipate will involve conciliation before the Commission at 2.15 on 10 March 2005. The Commission is adjourned. Thank you very much.

<ADJOURNED UNTIL THURSDAY, 10 MARCH 2005 [3.24PM]