C2005/2363, Transcript of Proceedings [2005] AIRCTrans 743 (29 March 2005)

1800 534 258

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

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Workplace Relations Act 1996 10890-1

SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT DRAKE

C2005/2363

AFFINITY HEALTH LIMITED
AND
HEALTH SERVICES UNION OF AUSTRALIA-NEW SOUTH WALES BRANCH
s.170LW - Application for settlement of dispute (certification of agreement)
(C2005/2363)

SYDNEY

10.50AM, MONDAY, 14 MARCH 2005

PN1

MR B SWEBECK: I seek leave to appear for the applicant, Affinity Health Limited. With me today on my right is MS S McNAMARA, the Human Resources Manager for Affinity Health and MR A GROSSCOPF, the team leader of the stores area for Affinity Health.

PN2

MR A COQUILLON: I am from the Health Services Union of Australia.

PN3

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you. And Mr Swebeck, where are you from?

PN4

MR SWEBECK: Swebeck Legal.

PN5

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is there any objection to Mr Swebeck's appearance?

PN6

MR COQUILLON: No objection.

PN7

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, leave is granted.

PN8

MR SWEBECK: Thank you. I thank my friend for that.

PN9

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you also, I am sorry to have inconvenienced you. What is the matter in dispute here?

PN10

MR SWEBECK: I beg your pardon, your Honour?

PN11

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Tell me about the matter - - -

PN12

MR SWEBECK: Yes, your Honour. Your Honour, the time has been well used but, your Honour, the dispute centres around the provisions or a particular provision of the Mayne Health Certified Agreement 2002. Your Honour, just to give you some history, Affinity took over the name Health Portfolio on
1 December 2003 and under the provisions of the Mayne Health Certified Agreement provision 7.8, your Honour. There is a transmission of business provision there which my client Affinity helped maintain in the sense that from the day that it took over the Mayne Health portfolio, including the operation of the St George Private Hospital, that the provisions of the Mayne Health Certified Agreement have been applied to the employees concerned.

PN13

Your Honour, correspondence started between the parties, as your Honour would have noticed, under the application. We say this is a matter that needs to be determined pursuant to the provisions of 170LW of the Workplace Relations Act with respect to the application of a particular provision of that agreement. Your Honour will note from the application that there has been a fair bit of correspondence between the parties. Your Honour, I am happy to hand up to your Honour for your Honour's information, copies of that correspondence and have it marked as a bundle of correspondence for identification purposes only, if that will assist your Honour.

PN14

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Well, I hope it will.

PN15

MR SWEBECK: Your Honour, the correspondence reflects, if you like, the parties attempting - - -

PN16

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: A rather large bundle of correspondence.

PN17

MR SWEBECK: I am sorry.

PN18

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I hope you're not expecting me to be across it in the next five minutes.

PN19

MR SWEBECK: No, your Honour, it hasn't been handed up for the purpose. It's just for your Honour's information and for the record that it was a fair bit of correspondence between the parties as to Affinity Health position with respect to a particular provision of the certified agreement. And if your Honour will turn to the tab 1 which has a copy of the filed application, your Honour will see attached is a copy of the dispute settling procedure at clause 2.3.

PN20

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. That's in my file.

PN21

MR SWEBECK: Yes. But your Honour will note there is a provision at clause 2.4 which speaks about the parties acknowledging the importance of improvement in productivity. And I draw your Honour's attention to subparagraph (b) and (c) where the provision allows for each of the hospitals to maintain adequate staffing levels but also allows Mayne, read Affinity, to review organisational change and changes to work practices if in Affinity's considered opinion, such organisation change or change to work practices should occur. However, your Honour, I do point out and hence the reason for the extensive correspondence between the parties, that the intention is that it will be a consultative collaborative process between Affinity and the union who appears today, which is a party to the certified agreement.

PN22

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And there has been no agreement about these changes.

PN23

MR SWEBECK: No, your Honour, there hasn't. The parties are at a point where - my client seeks to implement a trial, at the conclusion of which my client will, in consultation with the union, come to a final decision as to whether manning levels in a particular area of the hospital, an area known as the pick pack area, should be reduced or not. My friend has a different position and hence, my client is seeking the Commission's assistance in conciliation to work through and to assist the parties in perhaps coming to a compromised position. Now, the parties have spoken, your Honour, prior to attending this morning in the period that we had prior to the matter commencing and the parties have reached a position and would like to discuss that position with your Honour.

PN24

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Perhaps I should hear from Mr Coquillon.

PN25

MR SWEBECK: Yes. Thank you, your Honour.

PN26

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN27

MR COQUILLON: Thank you, your Honour.

PN28

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is that how you pronounce your name?

PN29

MR COQUILLON: Coquillon. Your Honour, just to add to what my friend has just stated, the HSUA is not at all opposed to the undertaking of a trial and we have made that position quite clear. However, what we are seeking is that an initial trial be undertaken upfront with two people. There are, at this point in time, three people attached to that stores area. The proposal to trial is with one person, the suggestion is that there is now no need for two additional people and that needs to be tested. What we have, in fact, put forward as late as about two weeks ago, is a proposal that a trial lasting approximately four to six weeks be undertaken in a controlled environment using two of the existing people, the third one can be redeployed elsewhere for that period of time. Thereafter, we would be quite happy to have a one person trial undertaken and that seems to be, in part, the stumbling block, your Honour. Our communication - - -

PN30

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. That's the matter about - I could tell from the correspondence I have been provided with, that is where you got to.

PN31

MR COQUILLON: Yes.

PN32

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN33

MR COQUILLON: That remains our position officially as at this point. However, using the few minutes that we have available to us before appearance before you, there is the possibility that some sort of compromise situation may be arrived at and we would like to explore that a little bit further a bit later on this morning, if we may, with your assistance. But officially, your Honour, our position is that we feel that even though the employer is saying that by and large, over the last 12 months or so two people have undertaken the work , and they have produced a set of figures, because for one reason or another, the third member of the team was absent. We are still saying that at no time were these people told that, number (1) it was a trial and number (2) the reasoning behind it until fairly late in the piece. This is why our position was, let us run with a two person trial for a period of time and thereafter a single person. That is where we are at at this point officially, your Honour.

PN34

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Do you require any more time alone together before I hear you in conference?

PN35

MR COQUILLON: Perhaps, I think, your Honour, we may go off record at this point in time and with your assistance in conciliation I think we may be able to resolve this one fairly quickly.

PN36

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Thank you.

<SHORT ADJOURNMENT [10.59AM]
<RESUMED [11.16AM]

PN37

THE SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT: (missing audio).....the grievance should be progressed. The agreement was reaching conciliation. Now, for the purposes of noting the parties agreement is that progression on the record, I am going to put the filing matter on the transcript. There has been an agreement that a trial will take place and the terms of the trial are as follow, (1) initially there will be a two week trial for two persons with Affinity to choose both persons in that trial. That will be followed by a trial for one week for two persons with the union able to select one person to participate in that trial. There will then follow a two week trial for one person with Affinity to choose the person who participates in that trial. That is the agreement reached between the parties and for the purposes of everyone understanding those terms, I have placed it on the record. I will order a copy of the transcript and make that transcript available to the parties.

PN38

MR SWEBECK: Thank you, your Honour.

<ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [11.17AM]